Questions on Paladin's Sacrifice and the Paladin's code


Advice


So, I have a player in the game I GM. This is his first major game, and, despite the advice on several people to the country, he decided to make a paladin. In a recent session, the party's oracle and cleric failed their saves against a enemy's Phantasmal Killer spells, and later I learned the paladin (who is immune to said spell due to their Aura of Courage) had Paladin's Sacrifice memorized during that fight, but apparently he didn't remember he had it memorized or didn't realize what it could do (he's been consistently bad on remember what he is capable of). Said player has been using this paladin all the way from level 1 to 14, and about over the course of several months. Also said player has done several questionable things in the past, but since it's also his first character I have been trying to be understanding. So, I have two questions:

1.) Does failing to save the life of a comrade when you have the ability to, even if doing so could mean you die, count as violation of the paladin's code?

2). If the answer to the above is a yes, despite it being a session or two late, should I let him off with a warning, or make him fall?

Advice on this matter is welcome


Please, please, speak with the player and agree on specifics of the code. Don't ruin his fun by trying to make him fall. It takes more than a mistake to make a good person into a bad person.


1-) No. The TL;DR Reason being because if you were not aware that you could do something to save a comrade you never made a conscious, evil decision.

2-) The rule of thumb is to never make a paladin fall if you have not warned him beforehand, if you want a non-metagame way of making that happen give me a second....


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/phyla ctery-of-faithfulness

Here you go, have him find this, allow him to purchase it, allow him to craft it possibly in another item slot, but if you want to nip 3/4 of all paladin falling argument in the bud give this to him mechanically.

In this way the only time he should fall is when he makes a concious, in character decision to step away from the light of his god due to his own personal beliefs.


I am not intending to be ultra-hard on him about it, but I do plan to have a bit of a discussion with him to try to point out that 1) He should really try to remember all the stuff he can do. And 2) He has the potential to be a really powerful character, despite him thinking that most of the rest of the party is more powerful than him.
I am well aware he is still pretty new at this, and I know I was in a similar spot when I was new. I have mentioned the phylactery to him, and alot of people in the group have also suggested it, but he seems overly attached to his headband of charisma, even though he doesn't get his charisma bonus to saves (he is a Sword of Valor)


1). No; the player's inability to recall that he had a particular spell memorized during combat has nothing to do with the character's willingness to save his companions.

2). See above. Also, I would suggest creating a buddy system by designating another player to remind the Paladin's player of what resources he has on hand.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since the spell says immunities still apply, the paladin could have saved either the oracle or the cleric, without suffering ill effects of the spell himself. Certainly a paladin would have used the spell to save an ally. But the phantasmal killer spell can be seen only by the target. How did the paladin know that there was a fear effect spell in play against the oracle and cleric? Is it reasonable that he would have known that his spell would save his ally?

Either way, I wouldn't make him fall. He didn't deliberately choose not to save his allies. Maybe, in character, you could say the paladin was frozen with indecision about which ally to save, if he only had the spell once. Although held to a strict code, paladins are still subject to human (or elven, or dwarven, or whatever) failings. They're not perfect, though they strive to be. He might be eaten up with guilt over failing to save his allies and perhaps he would pray to his god/dess for guidance. You could, as GM, have his deity lay a quest before him to atone for his failing, a quest that would test and stretch his decision making skills, to help him grow in his faith. Good story hook right there.

Out of character, try to come up with ways to help this new player remember what his character can do. Come up with shorthand note cards for his spells with brief descriptions, which he can refer to during the session. Refer to the book and page # for each spell in case the full description needs to be looked up.

Or go back and change the events of the session, allowing him to save one of the other characters, whichever one makes the most sense for the paladin to have saved. Again, I really think this is more of a new player memory/learning curve problem, and not a paladin in danger of falling.


Best rule for this kind of thing. If you have to ask if he fell or not, he didn't. This should be reserved for 'What the hell, hero?' moments where you sit there thinking 'wow, just ... wow. Man, that was COLD'.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Questions on Paladin's Sacrifice and the Paladin's code All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice