So, I was tossing around the idea the other day of making a wizard that was sneaky with a friend of mine. We both agreed that trying to make a gish wizard was bad due to low BAB and health of the wizard along with loss of caster levels. So I started throwing this together just to see how far I could get, just putting it out there to see if anyone else has ideas.
This is what I have come up with so far.
Traits to gain some rogue skills as class skills and bonuses(I Know there are others that let you gain stealth and what not I just listed a few as examples)
With Int maxed due to being a wizard even with a 2+Int skills/level progression you get at least 5(depending on point buy), then if you factor in that you are trying to stay out of the fight you can put your point from favored class there as well rather then health. If you decide to go human that would give you another +1 skill point/level. Netting you up to 9 skill points per level. That should be enough to buy quite a few rouge like skills along with the wizard ones.
Now you would want to have Dex as high as possible to maximize stealth, at least until you gain invisibility, and it also has the benefit of making you harder to hit if someone does find you.
Are there any good Alternate class features, builds that already exist, or just general tips out there that could help me actually go somewhere with this idea? Most of the stuff I have been able to google has been advice for 3.5 classes and as such has been no use.
Actually... I'm going to say up front that this doesn't actually work. It's only that this is as I wish it would work.
Tiefling Vivisectionist Alchemist 2/Wizard or Arcane Seeker Sorcerer 2/Arcane Trickster X. The Tiefling's favored class bonus that increases bomb damage is applied to sneak attack (because that replaces bombs) making sneak attack 2d6 at level 2. Tiefling qualifies for arcane trickster with his SLA and you wait until level 4 to have the necessary skill ranks.
"Thou Shalt Not Lose Caster Levels" has been violated, making this idea not so great, and since it doesn't actually work, it's an even worse idea. But if a DM allowed it in a game that starts later, it would be kind of fun on a roguish caster.
How set on using or not using 3rd party material are you?
If it is not a big deal there is a feat that with 5 caster levels you a in a second die for sneak attack. It's in undefeatable arcane trickster.
If not then 1 level of rogue at level 1 for class skills and the rest wizard to keep the skills maxed will work.
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Stealth wizard really isn't that difficult. Wizards get a bunch of skills from their high INT already and an illusion specialist has access to a LOT of sneaky tools. Some tips:
- Illusion specialist wizard - could also go shadow subschool, it's a matter of pure preference really (the blur effect of the dimension door lets you stealth after teleporting, which is pretty cool). I would probably drop evocation and maybe necromancy or enchantment, using opposition research to pick one of them back up later in your career. Don't drop abjuration - you need it for dispel magic.
- Max INT, have high DEX. dump CHA, you'll use clever wordplay for your chosen social skill and pragmatic activator for your UMD
- Go human for the extra feat to get more as-class-skill traits, and the extra skill point
- Use your initial human feat on additional traits. Pick up the trait which gives you stealth and the trait which gives you trapfinding. Pick up clever wordplay for bluff or diplomacy and pragmatic activator for UMD (the bonus from INT works out better than the class skill bonus from level 1, assuming an int of 20.)
- Pick up a familiar (probably cat to start with) and swap it out once you get improved familiar (I recommend imp or faerie dragon, but try to get something with decent DEX and grasping so it can stealth around with you and UMD).
- Work on picking up at least a metamagic rod of silent spell, so you can cast whilst invisible undetected. You could also learn the metamagic feat, but it's probably not worth it over persistent spell etc and similar.
- Make good use of scribe scroll (and consider getting craft wand and eventually staff-like-wand) as you'll be using a lot of utility spells that aren't always best memorised.
- Remember, you can use dispel magic to disable magical traps just as well as a rogue. Make sure you've always got it prepared!
- At this point you're basically set. With easy access to invisibility and disguise spells you should be doing the job of the sneaky rogue PLUS having all of the usual wizard backups!
- consider multiclassing into evangelist later on if you are STILL feeling skill starved. The evangelist chassis gives you 6+INT and progresses all of your wizard class features bar one level. Still... that one lost caster level hurts and I wouldn't recommend it unless you really feel like you need it.
*edit*
Just to be absolutely clear, a dip into rogue or trying to go for arcane trickster is 100% not worth it. 'Thou shalt not sacrifice caster levels' is the number one rule of building full casters in this game for a reason. That extra caster level is at the very least an extra casting of invisibility for +20/+40 stealth, and at worst access to an entirely new level of spells
Thanks for all the advice so far, so far most of it is jiving pretty well with what I was thinking. Sorry that it took so long for me to respond I have had a busy work week.
I got picked up in a human only campaign with the idea so that rules out small and non human classes.
I wanted to make sure to only take levels of wizard so I didn't lose any caster levels. He is primarily going to be support in combat (debuffing/battlefield control), not a blaster, i looked at Treantmonk's guide but he doesn't cover traits and the like.
I am not actually trying to make a rogue, as such I am not too worried about trapfinding and sneak attack. I just want to make a wizard who could reliably sneak well up until he got invisibility. Ideally I would want, Stealth, UMD, Sleight of hand, and Disable device as class skills or at least have a high enough bonus that it doesn't matter that they are not class skills. Most of the "face skills" I can use charm person or the like for but I would need a way to cast them without alerting the person that I am casting on. Is there any sort of "disguise spell" feat, or something similar?
. . .
I am not actually trying to make a rogue, as such I am not too worried about trapfinding and sneak attack. I just want to make a wizard who could reliably sneak well up until he got invisibility. Ideally I would want, Stealth, UMD, Sleight of hand, and Disable device as class skills or at least have a high enough bonus that it doesn't matter that they are not class skills. Most of the "face skills" I can use charm person or the like for but I would need a way to cast them without alerting the person that I am casting on. Is there any sort of "disguise spell" feat, or something similar?
Disguise self and alter self.
Edit: I misread that... ignore me.
Well, assuming you are not forced to play a human, a race with darkvision would really help for sneaking around in the dark. Otherwise you need to use a light source to see where you are going, and that will give away your position. Maybe you can get darkvision through another means (other than using up a 2nd level spell).
And without a high stealth score how does this wizard get around see invisibility or true seeing?
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The school you want is Mage of the Veil. The spell Aram Zey's Focus and the feats Silent Spell and Secret Signs may be overspecialising but are worth considering.
Later on if your GM permits possibly broken stuff, one of the uses of Emergency Attunement could be to switch the shape you're polymorphed into without having to make a noise.
The Veiled Illusionist prestige class is easy to get into and offers a lot of useful stuff without costing a caster level.
Thanks for all the tips and ideas everyone.
All you really need is stealth as a class skill via a trait and a decent dexterity. Take Skill focus stealth if you want.
Everything else you can do with spells.
I'm playing a Diviner Wizard / Evangelist "information broker" at the moment and the synergy between the wizard's very high intelligence and the evangelist's 6 skills per level & excellent skill list is pretty awesome. I'd strongly recommend going into Evangelist if you want to play a "rogueish" wizard.
