limits on alchemical power components


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

The new alchemy book with all the crazy new power components said something about there being a limitation on how many may be used. You can't, for example, use more than one dose of alchemical salt to increase a Necromantic spell's caster level by more than +1, I understand and support that - but what about applying multiple different components to one spell, or applying multiple doses of one component in different capacities? Could I apply both mugwort exctract and myrrh to a single dispel magic spell in order to increase both its range and the power of the dispel check? Could I apply two flasks of alchemist's fire to a single scorching ray spell, one as focus and one as material component, in order to get both +1 to to the attack roll and to make the target catch fire?


"Reagents do not stack with either themselves or one another"

Looks like that's a nope on using multiple reagents.

As for the other question it doesn't say you can't use multiple power components just that you can't use a single item as multiple Foci/Material.

Scarab Sages

jwtelesio wrote:

"Reagents do not stack with either themselves or one another"

Looks like that's a nope on using multiple reagents.

As for the other question it doesn't say you can't use multiple power components just that you can't use a single item as multiple Foci/Material.

Okay, now I'm confused - I understand you can't (for example) use a single flask of acid as both Focus and Material Component for an acid splash spell, but...are you saying "reagents" are different from "power components?" It sounds like you're contradicting yourself. If I can provide, for example, 2 flasks of alchemist's fire to a single spell that can draw multiple forms of benefit from a flask of alchemist's fire, can I apply both to that one spell so long as I use each for a different augmentation? On the other hand, if I have 2 different reagents that can apply in different ways to a single spell (like black powder and urea to cone of cold), can I apply them both to get both benefits into that one spell?

Scarab Sages

*BUMP* Still a trifle confused....


"Reagents" are materials for Spontaneous Alchemy that can also be used as "Power Components" for casting. You're limited to 1 "Reagent" as a "Power Component" per spell casting.

There is no written limit on non-reagent power components as far as I could tell.

Scarab Sages

So: Two flasks of alchemist's fire to scorching ray, yes; one flask of alchemist's ice and a dose of urea to cone of cold, yes; a dose of black powder and a dose of salt to vampiric touch, no?


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It states that "Reagents do not stack with either themselves or one another". I don't read that as you can only use one per spell just that you can't modify the same part of the spell more than once. So in the example you posted 'I'm Hiding In Your Closet', yes you can use alchemist's fire as a focus and a Reagent as they add different things. This is to stop you from adding black powder and liquid ice for a +2 damage since that'd require stacking.

jwtelesio: If one thing gives you a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and something else gives a +2 enhancement to damage you can use both without the need to stack. Same with Reagents.

Scarab Sages

Ok - so as long as each component has a different effect, it's fine. I'd certainly be on-board with that. Is there a consensus there?


Why talk about stacking if it meant only one could be used? It would then simply say 'only one power component can be used per casting'. The only reason to talk about stacking is to prevent people stacking the same effect. When they affect different parts of the spell there is no way for them to stack.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Scarab Sages

Don't get me wrong, I hope you're right, but that's not straightfoward - they say "reagents" (tangible things) NOT "specific effects of reagents" (which are abstract).

Maybe there's some consensus assumption regarding the term "stacking" that I'm not aware of?


PRD (getting started): "Stacking: Stacking refers to the act of adding together bonuses or penalties that apply to one particular check or statistic. Generally speaking, most bonuses of the same type do not stack. Instead, only the highest bonus applies. Most penalties do stack, meaning that their values are added together. Penalties and bonuses generally stack with one another, meaning that the penalties might negate or exceed part or all of the bonuses, and vice versa."

Note it states "that apply to one particular check or statistic". It's note per spell but per effect. Damage, range, level, extra affect are all different and adding to each is fine. Only trying to double up on the same feature triggers stacking.

Scarab Sages

Huh! So that's an official 'thing.' I had no idea, and it certainly vindicates you. Thanks much!


No problem! :)

Yeah, it talks about stacking in several places in the rules. All you really have to remember is that bonuses on the same effect stack unless they are the same type. Dodge and untyped are an exception since they stack with themselves. Also most times multiple uses of an ability don't stack. An example of this would be an item that gives you an untyped bonus to hit 3 times per day. Using it twice doesn't let you stack it.

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