GiantSlayer! what do we know?


Giantslayer

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i think you misunderstood me (which might be my fault) but i was saying that to call GiantSlayer a murder hobo's paradise is not a reflection of what Paizo is capable of, i would be shocked in fact if it was just one huge 6 book killing field.

i'm confident they will put out a wonderful immersive AP with plenty of opportunities to interact with the locals without leaving them all a pile of corpses when you leave.

Park Ranger (to party of Adventurers): C'mon! these Giants were not dead when you got here! what part of Leave it as you Found it don't you understand! also theirs a weight limit! you get X amount of Giants and then its Catch and Release! Catch and Release people! C'mon!"


logic_poet wrote:
I wouldn't count on lots of recurring friendly NPCs. This AP sounds like it's built to be well-suited to a wandering band of murderhobos.

Even the original Against the Giants modules had plenty of allies that could aid you, either temporarily or for the remainder of the adventure. Admittedly most were prisoners that you could free, but they were there nonetheless.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Lord Snow wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

When you file off the plot, and then file off the actual NPCs, and file off the locations... a LOT of APs start sounding the same, frankly.

There are certainly similarities in some of the creature mix between Runelords and Giantslayer... but they're different stories.

Fair point.

To a different question: will the NPC "method" from WotR continue here? that is, will we have inner covers detailing allies and villains? just generally speaking, how important would the supporting cast be?

No. We make choices for the inside covers based on the nature of the campaign. WotR had a LOT of recurring NPCs, and that was the right choice for that book. Giantslayer will have a different inside cover treatment more appropriate to Giantslayer than to Wrath of the Righteous.
OK, let me rephrase - I care less about the inside covers and more about the number and nature of friendly/ally NPCs in the AP. Will it lean closer to the Curse of the Crimson Throne/Wrath of the righteous end of the spectrum, or to the Shattered Star/Serpent's Skull end? How important are the NPCs to the story?

That's more of a Rob question, but as far as I know, the NPC interaction in this way will be average.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

logic_poet wrote:
I wouldn't count on lots of recurring friendly NPCs. This AP sounds like it's built to be well-suited to a wandering band of murderhobos.

Only if that's your preferred gaming style.

We try to ensure our adventures and Adventure Paths have a LOT more to offer than murderhobo play. And I'm pretty proud of the fact that I feel like we do this even in our most dungeoncrawly APs.

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

Lord Snow wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

When you file off the plot, and then file off the actual NPCs, and file off the locations... a LOT of APs start sounding the same, frankly.

There are certainly similarities in some of the creature mix between Runelords and Giantslayer... but they're different stories.

Fair point.

To a different question: will the NPC "method" from WotR continue here? that is, will we have inner covers detailing allies and villains? just generally speaking, how important would the supporting cast be?

No. We make choices for the inside covers based on the nature of the campaign. WotR had a LOT of recurring NPCs, and that was the right choice for that book. Giantslayer will have a different inside cover treatment more appropriate to Giantslayer than to Wrath of the Righteous.
OK, let me rephrase - I care less about the inside covers and more about the number and nature of friendly/ally NPCs in the AP. Will it lean closer to the Curse of the Crimson Throne/Wrath of the righteous end of the spectrum, or to the Shattered Star/Serpent's Skull end? How important are the NPCs to the story?

I'm not sure of exactlywhat you mean when comparing the NPCs from Curse of the Crimson Throne/Wrath of the Righteous with Shattered Star/Serpent's Skull, but for Giantslayer, there will definitely be some NPCs to interact with. As James said, I'd probably rank it as average. There's more interaction toward the front end of the AP, but as the PCs get farther and farther from "civilization" as the campaign progresses, there will likely be fewer opportunities - at least with humans and their ilk.

The Exchange

Thanks, Rob and James! :)


Think I'll be saving either a half orc bloodrager or warpriest for this one, make sure to avenge any use of orcs as whipping boys in the first adventure a thousand fold.


Anyone care to speculate when we can expect the Adventure Path tab on the sidebar to be updated with the outline for this path?


a week or two after GenCon is my guess:)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Well, I'm going to be playing a dwarf ranger with favored enemy: humanoid (giant) and favored terrain: mountains for this one. Who's with me?


Charlie Bell wrote:
Well, I'm going to be playing a dwarf ranger with favored enemy: humanoid (giant) and favored terrain: mountains for this one. Who's with me?

That sounds like a terrible idea when I roll my C/E elven ranger with the alternative trait Eternal Grudge to get +1 attack vs Dwarves and Favored Enemy (Humanoid, Dwarves).


i shall raise you both one halfling ranger/assassin (favored enemy: a!~!+~#s (i.e. humans) that you'll never see until he stabs you both in the kidney:)

or is that too dark?


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captain yesterday wrote:
i shall raise you both one halfling ranger/assassin (favored enemy: a#+&#&$s (i.e. humans) that you'll never see until he stabs you both in the kidney:)

You forgot the 1 level of barbarian. And his battlecry of

Belkar wrote:
I am a sexy shoeless god of war!


Do we know whether or not Giantslayer will make use of the ACG iconics?

Were I to pick an iconic party for this path it would be Adowyn, Crowe, Harsk, and Oloch.

That's just me, though.


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Hooray! I never really got to play Against the Giants, this might be a way to do so, in a Paizo manner.


Hooray! I did get to run Against the Giants (and the Drow and the Lolth thingy after that), this might be a way to do so again, in a Paizo manner.

(I'm not poking fun, I mean it. I thought between Skull & Shackles, Mummy's Mask and The Emerald Spire, I was set. I was. I *am*. I was looking forwarding to not coveting anything anymore and just settle in for a few solid years of comfortable gaming. Then Giant Slayer comes along? Aw, man! C'mon! At the very least, I have 6 months to put a dent in the APs I currently have but frankly, it won't be much of a dent.)


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

When will we see NEW info up on the site for this AP? I for one hope that it is soon! Giants have always been one of my favorite monsters next to Dragons to pit the players against.


I'll second that, this one has me quite interested, and what was the info on the next AP after this from GEN CON?

thanks

Tom


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I am disappointed that we know more about Hell's Rebels then we know about this one:(


Cheliax gets people excited. Maybe I missed it, but we're not even sure where this AP is taking place correct? (other than a few obscure hints) I think once that is established, it gets a lot more of the campaign setting entusiasts talking.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

It's mostly in and around the Mindspin Mountains from what I remember.

Paizo Employee Developer

Joel is correct.


Do we know the AP names?


Yes, they are on page two of this discussion.

Well if were not getting a new giant each AP, it would be nice to get some new types of Gigas since we haven't seen any in years.


Adam Daigle wrote:
Joel is correct.

C'mon! you and Rob have gotta tease this thing up more! you're letting James steal your thunder on the Hell's Rebels page;)

also magnificent job you guys did on Mummy's Mask!
its definitely in my top 3 APs (tied with Skull and Shackles and Reign of Winter at the top in fact:)

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

Ask and ye shall receive (within reason, of course).


Yay! fun stuff!
well i'll start with the basics, what town (if any) do we start in? is it a new town like in reign of winter or one already in the campaign setting?
i have more but my son Milo just said "dad! you've got to see the poop in my diaper!" 3 year olds are fun:)

Liberty's Edge

1) Orcs (at lower levels) and giants (at higher levels) are the main enemies, right?

2) Are there any other entities that play a major antagonistic role, either races or organizations like the Technic League in Iron Gods? Yes/no question.

2a) If yes, can you tease what/who?

3) Which giants are the most represented in the AP?

4) Is there representation for not-giant giants? (Do we get to slay ogres, ettins, cyclopes, trolls?)

5) Will the Bestiary have any new giants?

6) Will the Bestiary have one new giant in each book?

7) The ranger is going to be particularly badass for this AP, right?

8) Is my understanding correct that there won't be much of a "home base" and the AP will mostly happen "on the move"?

8a) If yes, is there any mechanism to keep recurring NPCs around (like the caravan in Jade Regent)?

Grand Lodge

It's not the what information on Giantslayer and Hell's Rebels I'm looking for, it's the WHERE do we find this info.

Other than getting lucky with a single post in a related Thread amongst hundreds of "Oh boy, can't wait" posts?

Can someone provide a helpful link to a PaizoBlog or something?


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

how does the transition from Orcs to Giants work? Are the events in book 1 somewhat separate from the main thrust of the AP and are only connected b/c they place you on the path to the main action (similar to say Serpent's Skull) or is it more like WotR, where it is the first domino in much bigger action, where you have an almost intimate connection even with the BBEGs from the get go?

Also are you fighting Orcs b/c the resurgence of the Giants are pushing them out of their "natural" habitat?

Do the PCs actually start in Belkzen or just across the border in Numeria or Lastwall?

Will the PCs travel to Nidal? Do they get to fight Shadow Giants?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

1) Will there be a section of the adventure that involved a dwarven outpost/cit, such as Janderhoff?

2) If so, will there be a gazetteer entry for that city?

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

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captain yesterday wrote:

Yay! fun stuff!

well i'll start with the basics, what town (if any) do we start in? is it a new town like in reign of winter or one already in the campaign setting?
i have more but my son Milo just said "dad! you've got to see the poop in my diaper!" 3 year olds are fun:)

It starts in Trunau, which is built upon Bloodmarch Hill (hence the title of the first adventure, "Battle of Bloodmarch Hill"). Trunau is heavily detailed in Towns of the Inner Sea.

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

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Samy wrote:
1) Orcs (at lower levels) and giants (at higher levels) are the main enemies, right?

Correct!

Samy wrote:
2) Are there any other entities that play a major antagonistic role, either races or organizations like the Technic League in Iron Gods? Yes/no question.

Yes.

Samy wrote:
2a) If yes, can you tease what/who?

An Orb of Dragonkind features strongly in this AP.

Samy wrote:
3) Which giants are the most represented in the AP?

I don't know if any one type of giant is most represented, but we're trying to include pretty much all of the "classic" giants somewhere in the AP.

Samy wrote:
4) Is there representation for not-giant giants? (Do we get to slay ogres, ettins, cyclopes, trolls?)

Yes! If they've got the giant subtype, they're still giants!

Samy wrote:
5) Will the Bestiary have any new giants?

Technically, yes.

Samy wrote:
6) Will the Bestiary have one new giant in each book?

No.

Samy wrote:
7) The ranger is going to be particularly badass for this AP, right?

If he takes favored enemy: humanoid (giant), then yes.

Samy wrote:
8) Is my understanding correct that there won't be much of a "home base" and the AP will mostly happen "on the move"?

Correct.

Samy wrote:
8a) If yes, is there any mechanism to keep recurring NPCs around (like the caravan in Jade Regent)?

There won't be any standalone subsystems, like in Jade Regent, but there will be some guidance for specific NPCs' roles later on in the AP (though a lot of that will still be left up to the GM; I'd rather fill the AP with fun encounters and adventure for the PCs than on the actions of NPCS from previous volumes).

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

j b 200 wrote:
how does the transition from Orcs to Giants work? Are the events in book 1 somewhat separate from the main thrust of the AP and are only connected b/c they place you on the path to the main action (similar to say Serpent's Skull) or is it more like WotR, where it is the first domino in much bigger action, where you have an almost intimate connection even with the BBEGs from the get go?

Giants are a bit too powerful as primary foes for the first adventure, which is why we have orcs instead, but their actions are connected to the larger plot, which the PCs will get their first hints of by the end of the adventure. And at least one giant does appear in the first adventure, so it's not *all* orcs.

j b 200 wrote:
Also are you fighting Orcs b/c the resurgence of the Giants are pushing them out of their "natural" habitat?

No.

j b 200 wrote:
Do the PCs actually start in Belkzen or just across the border in Numeria or Lastwall?

They start in Belkzen, but only for the first third of the AP.

j b 200 wrote:
Will the PCs travel to Nidal? Do they get to fight Shadow Giants?

Probably not. Maybe.

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

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JoelF847 wrote:

1) Will there be a section of the adventure that involved a dwarven outpost/cit, such as Janderhoff?

2) If so, will there be a gazetteer entry for that city?

Sadly, no for both, but primarily because I don't want to steal any thunder from the Dwarves vs. Orcs AP that I eventually hope to do.


Will this AP be hard on meticulous wizards who think roughing it means not having room service?

Edit: Any particular reason you decided on Giants instead of Orcs this time around? (I was hoping it was Orcs... But I'm still excited for the Giants!)

Liberty's Edge

a) Will there be a campaign trait like Iron Gods' "Robot Slayer", essentially a Lesser Favored Enemy (Giant)?

b) Will there be friendly giants?

b1) If yes, will there be a romanceable giant? :D :D :D

c) What would you say is the ratio between outdoors/wilderness and indoors/dungeon/underground encounters? Is it more of an wilderness AP or more of a dungeon crawl AP?

d) What about the sandboxy versus linear spectrum? Can you do a lot of things out of order (within each book, obviously, not the books themselves out of order) or are the adventures more a to b to c?

e) Are there any politics involving border crossings? Will there be incidents where the party will need to cross from one country to another through a watchpost? Is there any point where it's meaningful which country the party is in? Or is the whole AP more, weaving back and forth across borders and nobody really cares because it's up in the mountains?

f) Which of the six books do you think has the coolest "elevator pitch" or hook? Can you tease anything about it?


Will there be any new types of Gigas?


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Rob McCreary wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:

1) Will there be a section of the adventure that involved a dwarven outpost/cit, such as Janderhoff?

2) If so, will there be a gazetteer entry for that city?

Sadly, no for both, but primarily because I don't want to steal any thunder from the Dwarves vs. Orcs AP that I eventually hope to do.

Dwarves vs. Orcs AP?

You have my attention, sir.

Just so everyone at Paizo HQ knows, I am so IN for a Dwarves vs. Orcs AP. Put this on the 2016 AP schedule and just take my money.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
justmebd wrote:
Rob McCreary wrote:
JoelF847 wrote:

1) Will there be a section of the adventure that involved a dwarven outpost/cit, such as Janderhoff?

2) If so, will there be a gazetteer entry for that city?

Sadly, no for both, but primarily because I don't want to steal any thunder from the Dwarves vs. Orcs AP that I eventually hope to do.

Dwarves vs. Orcs AP?

You have my attention, sir.

Just so everyone at Paizo HQ knows, I am so IN for a Dwarves vs. Orcs AP. Put this on the 2016 AP schedule and just take my money.

Same here.

Of course, some of my players will see "Giant" in the AP's name, and make up nothing but dwarves anyways.

Well, maybe a gnome, if one player finally makes that mounted PC he's always talking about.


1)Any chance of a giant blooded 0HD playable race?

2)Will we have cultural articles about specific types of giants or giants in general?

3)Is it safe to assume we ill have at least one giant related deity article?

4)Will there be any possible giant allies?

5)Will any creatures in the bestiary be servants or pets to a type of giant or giants in general?


Dragon78 wrote:

1)Any chance of a giant blooded 0HD playable race?

2)Will we have cultural articles about specific types of giants or giants in general?

1) i believe they've already said no to this

2)get Giants Revisited for this part, it has more info probably then any AP article would have the room for, its a really good book!


Now that you mention it I think someone did ask this one awhile ago and I forgot the answer was no.

I have that book but you never know what will be in this book, besides that book didn't cover every giant.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Dragon78 wrote:

3)Is it safe to assume we ill have at least one giant related deity article?

From page 2 of this thread

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Minderhal and Zursvaater will get entries in the articles

Per Pathfinder Wiki: Minderhal is the LE giant god of the smith (worshipped by giant-slaves in Thassalon) and Zursvaater is LE "father of the Fire Giants."


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

Will there be any tie-in with Thassalon or any more info about how the Giants were slaves in the Thassalonian empire?

Liberty's Edge

Yeah it was something along the lines of, "you're supposed to be fighting them, not having family reunions with them" :D :D :D

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

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Kairos Dawnfury wrote:

Will this AP be hard on meticulous wizards who think roughing it means not having room service?

Edit: Any particular reason you decided on Giants instead of Orcs this time around? (I was hoping it was Orcs... But I'm still excited for the Giants!)

Primarily because giants scale up as foes over the course of an AP better than orcs.

Secondarily, because I have plans for orcs (and dwarves!) later on.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Dragon78 wrote:

Will there be any new types of Gigas?

If plans work out, yes.

Paizo Employee Developer

Dragon78 wrote:

1)Any chance of a giant blooded 0HD playable race?

2)Will we have cultural articles about specific types of giants or giants in general?

3)Is it safe to assume we ill have at least one giant related deity article?

4)Will there be any possible giant allies?

5)Will any creatures in the bestiary be servants or pets to a type of giant or giants in general?

1) Nope.

2) Not full on ecology articles since that would be covering much of the same information as Giants Revisited, but I do have plans for a Giant's Primer in the first adventure that collects a bunch of information in one place about the major groups of different giants.

3) Yep. Two in fact.

4) Uncertain.

5) There are plans for something like this.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rob McCreary wrote:
Secondarily, because I have plans for orcs (and dwarves!) later on.

It's confirmed there will be an Orcs and Dwarves AP in the future (within the next 5 years)!

:)

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