Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.
One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.
The other thinks they can be activated any time.
To do something g outside your turn the game needs to give you to do so.
Free Actions
Free actions don't take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity. Some common free actions are described below.
Cease Concentration on Spell
You can stop concentrating on a spell as a free action.
Drop an Item
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action.
Drop Prone
Dropping to a prone position in your space is a free action.
Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
Note speaking specifically givesbyou permission out of turn.
"You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally."
So it's generally going to be during your turn. The exception is for immediate actions, which can be taken out of turn; for example, some abilities allow you to attack as an immediate action. As part of this action you could put your off-hand on your Longsword for the 1.5x STR damage if you were previously holding it one-handed.
so the ruling is:
-Five foot step have to be made on your turn
-Free actions can be made outside of your turn but only when used with an AoO or a Immediate Action
Is there anything I'm missing?
Thanks guys
I am not sure about generalizing combining a free action with an AoO. I seem to recall playing a character who wielded a two-handed reach weapon and had the Improved Unarmed Strike feat. At the end of her turn, her choices were to keep both hands on the weapon (thereby threatening at 10' but not adjacent) or take one hand off the weapon (thereby threatening adjacent foes but not those at 10'). If anyone can offer evidence that this is wrong, I would most appreciate it.
In your example it is irrelevant. You can unarmed strike with kicks and threaten at both ranges.
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The combat system essentially assumes that you can only take actions on your turn, unless as excepted. The Immediate action was added subsequent to the original design of the combat system although it has always been part of PF.
A five foot step can be taken on your turn, or as part of a readied action; in either case, it cannot be combined with other movement.
General opinions in the forums have increasingly made arguments to expand the scope of when a free action can be used. The primary discussion is around the description of a free action being taken while taking another action. This was interpreted more strictly in 3.5. Now it becomes the basis for then applying it along with any other action. As a result, the discussion becomes what situations are actions.
You'll get differences of opinion about whether the contingent element of a readied action is an action, whether an AoO is an action, etc.
When coming to the forums for a clear answer on a complex topic can be frustrating due to the exposure to multiple opinions. You are best of viewing the forums as a place to be exposed to different arguments in such cases rather than a definitive source.
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I'd only allow a free action at a time when you could make a move, standard or full round action, including when readying an action.
Talking is almost always an exception, since it doesn't really follow the same sort of rules, beyond "around 6 seconds of talking" per round, with leniency given it's a roleplaying game.
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so the ruling is:
-Five foot step have to be made on your turn
-Free actions can be made outside of your turn but only when used with an AoO or a Immediate Action
Is there anything I'm missing?
Thanks guys
The feats Step Up and Following Step will allow movement on your opponents turn when your opponent moves away from you.
The Battle Oracle's Surprising Charge allows a normal move as an immediate action.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.
One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.
The other thinks they can be activated any time.
Both are right and wrong.
You can only 5 ft step on your turn or with an ability that says you can out of turn.
You can speak (free action) when not your turn.
You can take free actions while taking other actions.
Your GM determines whether taking that immediate action or attack of opportunity is "taking an action" and thus whether you can take free actions while doing those actions.
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Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.
One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.
The other thinks they can be activated any time.
It's not just you and your GM.
It's a fairly ambiguous situation that should be added to the FAQ
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Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.
One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.
The other thinks they can be activated any time.
From my understanding you can use a free action anytime you are taking an action. So free actions are ok during your turn, during AoO, and during readied actions. Or at least that is how I am understanding it.
Free actions are on your turn with a few exceptions.
Swift actions are only on your turn.
You can not take free actions during an AoO by the rules normally. Now with snapshot you have to use a free action to draw the ammunition so you have to able to do that.
So you have to take everything into consideration before saying yes or not. It is not a case of always yes or always no.
Our ruling is that most free actions take place only during your turn, unless the action specifically expands this (eg talking).
Immediate actions happen anytime, like AoOs, in reaction to something.
I have not looked up the relevant definitions in the core rulebook, but I would be very surprised to find anything different. Allowing free actions at other times opens a Pandora's box of problems from various feats and special abilities.
Keep in mind an AoO isn't a standard action, it's an attack action.
I'm not 100% sure, but pretty confident that there's no exceptions with attack actions - they are only for attacks and some combat maneuvers (never for spells); certainly not for combining with other actions (even free actions).
An AoO is not an attack action. An attack action is a standard action.
An AoO is just an attack that you get to make outside of your turn. If one wanted to be pedantic about it they could argue that since snapshot does not have a rules exception allowing a free action to draw ammunition outside of the normal turn order it does not work, but it is not really worth the argument IMHO.|
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If one wanted to be pedantic about it they could argue that since snapshot does not have a rules exception allowing a free action to draw ammunition outside of the normal turn order it does not work, but it is not really worth the argument IMHO.
It was worth enough of an argument to warrant an FAQ.
If one wanted to be pedantic about it they could argue that since snapshot does not have a rules exception allowing a free action to draw ammunition outside of the normal turn order it does not work, but it is not really worth the argument IMHO.It was worth enough of an argument to warrant an FAQ.
I still don't think it deserved an FAQ, but it is good in the long run.
The FAQ does set a precedent for feat being able to work without needing to be over pedantic.
Free actions are on your turn with a few exceptions.
Swift actions are only on your turn.Well yeah, but if you allow all free actions (not just the ones with specific language to the contrary) to be taken outside of your turn, and the rules for swift actions say this:
You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.Then I don't see why you can't take swift actions outside of your turn either.
The only ones I would allow are the free actions required to complete another action such as in the snapshot example. No swift action is required to complete any other actions that I know of.
Since I can use a swift action whenever I can use a free action, does that mean in your games I can cast swift action spells during AoO?From my understanding you can use a free action anytime you are taking an action. So free actions are ok during your turn, during AoO, and during readied actions. Or at least that is how I am understanding it.Me and my GM have a disagreement on this. he told me to ask the Paizo forums.
One side thinks that 5-foot steps and free action can only be activated during your turn.
The other thinks they can be activated any time.
To clarify. I don't believe that free actions and swift actions are the same. The quote you are posting is not saying they are equivalent they are simply similar. If they were the same thing then they wouldn't have 2 different words. That said I seem to recall on of the devs saying that you can drop an item during an AoO. You can also talk, fall, draw an arrow, etc. To me this implies that free actions are allowed. This is simply my interpretation and I seem to be in the minority.
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Can you take multiple free actions during an AOO, I.E. threaten an adjacent square with gauntlets, drop a reach weapon, quick draw a mace and smack em with it?
GM discretion, though my unscientific guess is that most GMs will say no.
EDIT: ...barring some feat or special ability that would require you to need multiple free actions for AoOs (Combat Reflexes with Snap Shot, as previously mentioned, for example).
To clarify. I don't believe that free actions and swift actions are the same. The quote you are posting is not saying they are equivalent they are simply similar. If they were the same thing then they wouldn't have 2 different words. That said I seem to recall on of the devs saying that you can drop an item during an AoO. You can also talk, fall, draw an arrow, etc. To me this implies that free actions are allowed. This is simply my interpretation and I seem to be in the minority.
Speaking is specifically called out as a free action that can be taken, even when it is not your turn.
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn.
The implication being that you cannot normally take free actions outside of your turn.
Drawing an arrow as a free action while using the snapshot feat required a FAQ to allow it to work.
It's possible I missed it, but I've never seen a dev post that suggested dropping items, falling prone, quick drawing a weapon, etc (all free actions) can be taken at any time.
Five foot steps aren't actually free actions. They are misc. actions. Link here. Besides, even if they did count as a free action, being able to use them outside your turn would make the feat Step Up utterly useless and unnecessary. Any form of unrestricted movement outside of your turn is extremely valuable, and could easily break combat, because it screws with the whole AoO system.
Most free actions are heavily implied to be taken only during your turn, although this is a question I have wondered about as well. Once a barbarian of mine took a crit that would have killed him. I wasn't raging at the time, so my GM told me I could activate rage in response to the attack because raging is a free action. This didn't sound correct to me, but I didn't argue BECAUSE REASONS. Also, the GM was much more experienced than me, so it wasn't really my place to disagree regardless.
It is also implied that free actions can only be taken during your turn because the concept of an immediate action exist, but the reason this is confusing is because using an immediate action takes up a "swift action slot", and free actions don't.
Basically, I believe that free actions are always exclusive to your own turn unless stated otherwise; it doesn't seem appropriate to have all free actions able to work out of turn order without clarifying this in the rules.
An example to reinforce this perception is the rules for speaking during combat: "In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform even when it isn't your turn. Speaking more than a few sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action." This also implies that free actions usually cannot be taken outside of your turn, because it specifically states that speaking CAN be taken outside of your turn and therefore appears to be beyond the normal limitations of free actions.
I am further inclined to believe this because there are some free actions that could totally break the game if they can be taken by anyone, anytime, such as with KuntaSS's example:
Can you take multiple free actions during an AOO, I.E. threaten an adjacent square with gauntlets, drop a reach weapon, quick draw a mace and smack em with it?
...but I'm also thinking of some particular magic item activations that would also be utterly ruinous if they could be taken out of turn order.
Oh, and to clarify, immediate actions, swift actions, and free actions are all different things, all of which work differently. Just check the links.
That's my two cents.
Some other interesting aspectys of the 5 foot step
You can take it at anytime during your turn as long as you did not move yet. For example during a full attack the five foot step can occur between attacks(same with a swift action)
You can also take a 5 foot step as part of a readied action.
Can you take multiple free actions during an AOO, I.E. threaten an adjacent square with gauntlets, drop a reach weapon, quick draw a mace and smack em with it?
If you are using a reach weapon you don't threaten with gauntlets, so bad example. with a better example the number of free actions you can take are limited by your GM.
On the larger point, I read it as (including the FAQ) free actions outside your turn need either express permission via rules or a feat or be part of a dependent action. So, as you can't use Snap Shot without drawing ammo, you can draw ammo.
Doesn't contradict any rules and doesn't leave you with shenanigans of swift spells amidst AoO's.
Free actions are great for flavor and story development. When I DM and someone wants to take a free action not on their turn I only let them if it furthers story or will end up being an awesome moment to talk about later.
An example of something I wouldn't allow:
Move action: hustle over to the rope.
Standard action: loosen rope and hold it.
I would not let them let go of the rope as a free action on the bad guys turn as they walk under the chandelier, unless they had the rope earlier and used a readied action to prep the drop.
An example of something I would allow:
bad guy's turn
Move action: stomp towards good guy
Free action allowed by the PC who asks to do this
Free action: pull hood down to reveal Rakshasa (already poly-morph self) and role for intimidate.
bad guy
Second Move action: put hands up and just walk away.
Can you take multiple free actions during an AOO, I.E. threaten an adjacent square with gauntlets, drop a reach weapon, quick draw a mace and smack em with it?If you are using a reach weapon you don't threaten with gauntlets, so bad example. with a better example the number of free actions you can take are limited by your GM.
On the larger point, I read it as (including the FAQ) free actions outside your turn need either express permission via rules or a feat or be part of a dependent action. So, as you can't use Snap Shot without drawing ammo, you can draw ammo.
Doesn't contradict any rules and doesn't leave you with shenanigans of swift spells amidst AoO's.
Although if you still want to screw around with enemy attacks as an immediate action, you could go with Dual-Cursed Oracle.
Or you could screw around with their saves...
...or their skill checks...
...or stabilization checks...
...or ability checks...
...or concentration checks...
Ugh... Misfortune is so good it's just stupid.
"Free actions can only be taken on your turn. Only immediate actions can be taken outside of your turn."
From >>Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!<<
I guess this discussion is closed.
Can you take multiple free actions during an AOO, I.E. threaten an adjacent square with gauntlets, drop a reach weapon, quick draw a mace and smack em with it?
No, unless your GM is really nice. You can't take a free action during an AoO unless it is part of another action allowed, such as the snap shot example I used before.
Even free actions are not allowed outside of your term without specific exceptions.
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"Free actions can only be taken on your turn. Only immediate actions can be taken outside of your turn."
From >>Ask *James Jacobs* ALL your Questions Here!<<
I guess this discussion is closed.
Sorry, there's a difference between a creative director and a "whatever the title is for someone that writes the rules".
It seems ridiculous that I wouldn't be able, during an attack of opportunity, to bring my second hand over to my 1h weapon to get the extra str bonus.
Also, it's not official 'til it's in print or in an FAQ.
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The free action grab/release FAQ is not a part of the Core rules. Originally there was no option for removing a hand during combat, so the "silliness" of switching your grip during an AoO was never an issue. You couldn't do it as a free action on your turn, so why would you be able to do it outside of your turn?
So the Developers issued that FAQ as an attempt to toss martials a bone, and to not burn up actions just letting go of your weapon. All seemed good and right in the world of melee combatants.
But then someone, and we'll probably never know whom, asked the question: "so this means I can switch my grip as a free action... at any time?"
And a dark cloud has hovered over the Pathfinder Universe ever since.
The strangest interaction of going with you can't do free actions unless it is your turn is how things like Grab function (or don't) on attack of opportunities.