Rage problems.


Advice

Grand Lodge

Hi guys i'm new here so i have a questions :P

Can you tell me what this means i have barbarian lvl 2

"The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice"

how much HP is that on lvl 1 and lvl 2 barbarian

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

Shadow Lodge

Your hit dice and level are the same.


Grommash Hellscream wrote:

Hi guys i'm new here so i have a questions :P

Can you tell me what this means i have barbarian lvl 2

"The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice"

how much HP is that on lvl 1 and lvl 2 barbarian

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

Level 1 full hit points would be 14, 16 when raging(this is without FCB going to HP or toughness)

Level 2 would be 23, 27 when raging.


thats not posible
i have 15 hp on lvl 1 i take favorite class in HP so its 12+2(con)+1=15
on lvl 2 its 24 HP
and you want to tell me i get only 2 HP while i raging??????!!!!

Shadow Lodge

As I said in the first time you posted this (it was a double post) your hit dice is the same as your total level, in the case of a barbarian 2, that is 2, meaning that you gain an additional 4 hit points when raging at level 2.

If you put favored class into Hp once, that means you have 24 HP when not raging, and 28 when raging, if you put it in twice, its 25/29.


Garrosh Hellscream wrote:

thats not posible

i have 15 hp on lvl 1 i take favorite class in HP so its 12+2(con)+1=15
on lvl 2 its 24 HP
and you want to tell me i get only 2 HP while i raging??????!!!!

You listed what it says you gain 2 hit points per hit dice a normal PC's hit dice is equal to their level so 2 hp at level 1, 4 at 2, 6 at 3, etc.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

He did say "without FCB going to HP", which is the case for you. But in any case, since a low level barbarian adds +4 to Con when raging, he gains twice his level or hit dice in hit points -- so 2 extra hp at level 1, 4 extra at level 2, and so forth.


Garrosh Hellscream wrote:

thats not posible

i have 15 hp on lvl 1 i take favorite class in HP so its 12+2(con)+1=15
on lvl 2 its 24 HP
and you want to tell me i get only 2 HP while i raging??????!!!!

You won't be complaining about "only +2 HP/hit die" when you're level 10, have 20 extra hit points when you rage (which is, by the way, more than your con score), hit -1 HP because you've a low AC, fall out of rage, and instantly die.


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One thing that I don't understand about raging is the line, "but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points," in regards to the barbarian's extra hit points. I get that they go away. What I don't get is the second half of it.

So, for example, if you had 50 hp normally, and raging gave you an additional 10hp, you would have 60 total, right? Now let's say that you took 10 damage during the fight. When you stopped raging, would it be as if you had taken no damage at all? Or would you have 40 hp out of 50hp, and the rest of the rage hp just goes away.

I REALLY wish that Pathfinder would give examples to vaguely worded statements (like Shadowrun does) to clearify things.

Shadow Lodge

Grommash Hellscream wrote:

Hi guys i'm new here so i have a questions :P

Can you tell me what this means i have barbarian lvl 2

"The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice"

how much HP is that on lvl 1 and lvl 2 barbarian

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

At low levels, Rage adds +4 to Constitution, so you'd end up with an 18, which is +4 points per hit die (regardless of source) rather than the +2 that a 14 Constitution grants you.

Assuming you put a favored class bonus toward your total hit points at each level, you'd end up with:

  • Normal: 12 (level 1 hit die) + 2 (level 1 con bonus) + 1 (FCB) + 7 (level 2 hit die) + 2 (level 2 con bonus) + 1 (FCB) = 15 / 25 Hit points
  • Enraged: 12 (level 1 hit die) + 4 (level 1 con bonus) + 1 (FCB) + 7 (level 2 hit die) + 4 (level 2 con bonus) + 1 (FCB) = 17 / 29 Hit points

Please note that typically, you lose the Con bonus the moment your rage ends:

  • If this raging barbarian 2 takes 28 points of damage in battle and doesn't get any healing, he's going to drop from 1 hp (29 - 28) to -3 hp (25 - 28) when his rage ends.
  • If this raging barbarian 2 is reduced to -1 in combat, he becomes unconscious, which ends his rage and immediately reduces him to -5 hp.
  • If this raging barbarian 2 is reduced to -10 in combat, he is dead: The loss of the bonus 4 hp will put him at -14 hp, which is his non-raging Constitution score and therefore the point at which he goes from 'unconscious and bleeding' to 'dead.'

Basically, the extra hit points a barbarian gets while raging is only a 'bonus' if you have healer nearby: Otherwise, you are typically borrowing HP from your 'down but not dead yet' cushion.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

In your example, you would come out of the rage with 40 hp left -- it is the damage taken and not the hp remaining that is kept constant when your Con changes from going into or out of a rage. And yes, that does mean that a barbarian who is reduced to zero or fewer hp has a chance increasing with level that he will die immediately upon coming out of his rage.

Shadow Lodge

Snuggles: Destroyer of Worlds wrote:

One thing that I don't understand about raging is the line, "but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points," in regards to the barbarian's extra hit points. I get that they go away. What I don't get is the second half of it.

So, for example, if you had 50 hp normally, and raging gave you an additional 10hp, you would have 60 total, right? Now let's say that you took 10 damage during the fight. When you stopped raging, would it be as if you had taken no damage at all? Or would you have 40 hp out of 50hp, and the rest of the rage hp just goes away.

I REALLY wish that Pathfinder would give examples to vaguely worded statements (like Shadowrun does) to clearify things.

If you want Con changes to be a little easier to understand, try tracking damage taken instead of HP remaining, as the rules default to.

In your example, with the character haven taken 10 damage, while raging he would have 50 hp left; as soon as he comes out of rage, he still has 10 damage, so he only has 40 hp left. If he were to rage again, while still having 10 damage, he would once again have 50 hp left.

This is why rage can be so dangerous at higher levels; you have the potential of going from unconscious (at higher levels even while CONSCIOUS, but low hp) to out-right DEAD instantly when dropping out of rage. If the same character were to take a total of 61 damage, he'd fall unconscious, causing him to drop out of rage, and since he still has 61 damage, he'd go from -1 to -11, killing him if he were foolish enough to have a 10 base Constitution. A level 20 barbarian gets +8 Con while raging, meaning an additional 80 max hp, all but guaranteeing his death, should he get dropped to -1 while raging.

There's a reason the Raging Vitality feat allows you to continue raging while unconscious...

Shadow Lodge

Snuggles: Destroyer of Worlds wrote:

One thing that I don't understand about raging is the line, "but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points," in regards to the barbarian's extra hit points. I get that they go away. What I don't get is the second half of it.

So, for example, if you had 50 hp normally, and raging gave you an additional 10hp, you would have 60 total, right? Now let's say that you took 10 damage during the fight. When you stopped raging, would it be as if you had taken no damage at all? Or would you have 40 hp out of 50hp, and the rest of the rage hp just goes away.

I REALLY wish that Pathfinder would give examples to vaguely worded statements (like Shadowrun does) to clearify things.

There are various spells that grant 'temporary Hit Points': These hit points are completely separate from your own Hit Points and basically suck up the first x points of damage you take.

Rage does not work this way: it provides a temporary bonus to your Constitution, which increases your total hit points.

What you really need to do is track the total damage you currently have on your character and compare that to your current maximum Hit Points to determine how far you are from death: Any change in your current Maximum Hit Points doesn't change the actual damage you have taken, just how far you are from death.

In your example, you should see the following

  • A fifth level character with at least one level in barbarian could have a normal maximum HP total of 50.
  • upon raging, your maximum HP total would become 60
  • you take 10 points of damage in battle, leaving you at (60 - 10) 50 HP.
  • your rage ends, dropping your maximum HP back to 50. Assuming you have received no healing, you are now at (50 - 10) 40 HP.


Basically, you get 2 hit points per level that go away when you end your rage. Basically, if you normally have 20 hp, you rage and have 24. If you take 22 damage while raging, then drop out of rage, you're at -2, unconscious, and dying.

Scarab Sages

Taja the Barbarian wrote:


Basically, the extra hit points a barbarian gets while raging is only a 'bonus' if you have healer nearby: Otherwise, you are typically borrowing HP from your 'down but not dead yet' cushion.

If you don't like this constituion/death hit points effect consider the Urban Barbarian who doesn't get anything other the basic +4 physical stat increase but doesn't have the CON effect and isn't restricted to activities while raging. (though I have seen more urban barbarians raging for DEX that STR, but STR is there)

The others are correct, if you don't have a healer with the party (a person with a wand is not enough of a healer) being a barbarian can be dangeorus. Some parts of the world have very few active healers per characters.

Guarded Life helps at low level - its a rage power that auto stabilizes you at negative lethal hit points and converts 1 lethal hit point to non-lethal upon falling unconscious in rage - but it doesn't help much at higher levels.


From what I hear, Raging Vitality is all the rage.


Raging Vitality is a feat tax for being a barbrian. It's okay though, because youre awesome. Assuming someone can reliably heal (even with a wand) you should be able to get yourself out of danger quickly enough without wasting too many extra rounds of rage. Remember, you just need enough healing so that you don't die when you drop rage. After that, any more magical healing will stabilize you and you can continue to be healed with a wand.

The only time you're in trouble is when your damage taken is greater than your normal hit points + normal con. (Since creatures die at hp = -con).

For example: If you have a non-raging con of 16 and 16 hp at level 1. If you're raging you have 18 hp. If you take 19 hp damage you will be unconcious, and fall out of rage (assuming you don't have Raging Vitality) and you will lose 2 efective hp from dropping rage.

HOWEVER! That only puts you at -3 hp. If you get any magical healing you'll stabilize and be right as rain.

The moral of the story is, the additional hp is a buffer zone. If you get down to that it is not a sign to continue fighting, but rather to back off and use a potion of something else to continue fighting when you have normally been rendered unconcious and out of the fight.

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