Changing weapon damage type

[Talon Stormwarden]

Ok, I could have sworn there was a way to change weapon damage type by taking an attack penalty, or some such. But now I can't find anything of the sort. Am I imagining things, or remembering an old house rule perhaps?

I'm aware of the Weapon Versatility feat. I'm talking about something that anyone can do.

[Mike Franke]

There is a rule about using a non bludgeoning weapon to do bludgeoning damage but I am not in front of books right now so I can't say for sure.

[Zhayne]

I don't know if it was a real rule, but one of the old 3e FAQs said it would be reasonable to allow it with a -4 penalty.

[Mike Franke]

It may be just -4 to hit because you are using in an improvised way.

[daimaru]

Zhayne wrote:

I don't know if it was a real rule, but one of the old 3e FAQs said it would be reasonable to allow it with a -4 penalty.

Dealing Nonlethal Damage

Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you've accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you're staggered (see below), and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious.

Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage

You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll.

Lethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Nonlethal Damage

You can use a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, including an unarmed strike, to deal lethal damage instead, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll.

[Zhayne]

Mike Franke wrote:

It may be just -4 to hit because you are using in an improvised way.

Basically. Kind of like the non-proficiency penalty, really. Ur doin it wrong.

[Zhayne]

... okay, yeah, that's true, daimaru, but what does it have to do with, say, dealing bludgeoning damage with a sword?

[daimaru]

Zhayne wrote:

... okay, yeah, that's true, daimaru, but what does it have to do with, say, dealing bludgeoning damage with a sword?

The original question was about changing damage type so I thought the answer applied as lethal/non-lethal and that's what I was really answering.

I've never seen anywhere that you could deal bludgeoning damage with a sword. Seems like it would a natural for fighting skeletons so if we could you'd think it would be mentioned.

That being said, if you wanted to deal non-lethal damage with a sword that would be hitting with the flat, and that would be using it as a bludgeon. But I've run into problems before by trying to use logic in a game, so I don't know.

[lemeres]

....or you could just take the Weapon Versatility feat.

It lets you change the damage type of a weapon you have weapon focus in for a swift action (free action at +5 BAB though, meaning that you could always do some combo of slash, stab, and crush on a BAB based bull attack). It makes a bit of sense- it means you have to know that specific weapon well enough to know how to exploit it for different damage types.

That restricts it a bit by making it only work on one weapon most of the time...but honestly, how many people would even use different types of melee weapons after this feat? After that, golfbagging is purely for material or circumstantial magical purposes

The only real flaw I can see is that some might not have room to fit both this feat and weapon focus in. Or at least at a reasonable level.

Also- might I note-I love that it comes from the Undeadslayer's handbook. It is pretty clear what it is meant for- having your greatsword tear through any skeletons that look at you funny (which is all of them; because they lack eyes)

[Talon Stormwarden]

Thanks folks. As I suspected, it was simply a 3.x/house rule thing. I just wanted to make certain I wasn't missing it somewhere in the Pathfinder rules.

And yes, Weapon Versatility is a useful feat for those with room for it. I've just taken it for my 5th lvl PFS kensai bladebound magus in fact. Not only is he much less effective if he has to switch to a bludgeoning or piercing weapon, he also has to listen to the telepathic whining of a primadonna who thinks he should get every killing blow and that I should never even look at another weapon, much less think about caressing its gentle curves, imagining how it might feel in my hands, how it might respond differently than what I'm used to...

"What? No, darling, I was just looking at that scabbard and thinking it would look good on you, of course I wasn't looking at the sword's hilt. Don't be silly, I only have eyes for you, baby!"

[lemeres]

Whoops, missed that line. Sorry.

[CAHaugen]

Lemeres wrote:

"....or you could just take the Weapon Versatility feat. (...) but honestly, how many people would even use different types of melee weapons after this feat?"

Well, to answer that, sometimes you want a specific build or use of Feats, and yet you want a certain weapon. It comes down to flavor, more so than mechanics. However, having stated that I do have one instance where it makes the difference.

Behold, the Falcata. A One-Handed Exotic sword. What makes this weapon so special? Well, to begin, as a One-Handed, it can be wielded as a Two-Handed Large, knocking it's mundane 1d8 up to a 2d6. Now, normally this is only a Slashing weapon. So again, what makes this so special? It's the CTR. As far as I'm aware, it's the only weapon with the very special 19-20/x3. It's very easy to see how this would become an instant favorite in various Fighter builds. But sometimes your Slashing weapon just isn't cutting it, so why waste time changing to a spear or a hammer when you can just skewer your opponent, or side-bar them with the handle?

While mechanically it's not very noticeable, when you consider encumbrance, the need to enchant multiple weapons, the time it takes to draw or sheathe various weapons... It's a lot easier to just stab a zombie, or crack apart a wooden frame with a solid well-placed ram from the pommel.

Not to mention that this would technically fulfill the requirements for various Damage Type-based Feats.

In example, Impaling Critical requires you to have a Piercing weapon. Well, perhaps you are really favoring your now Large +1 Keen Falcata, with it's 2d6+1 Damage, it's +x1.5 Strength, and it's now 17-20/x3 CTR. But can you impale with it?

Well, now you can.

See, it's not about how the Feat itself works, but how you use it.

Hope that makes sense.

[Paulicus]

As others have said, there's no rules for changing damage types (other than lethal/nonlethal). It's an entirely reasonable houserule, and I allow it in games I run if able.

[CAHaugen]

It should also be added that if a player wanted to, either with the above-mentioned Feat or not, you'd be able to use a crossbow or bow as a club.

I'd personally allow them the stats of a Club; 1d6 x2 and Fragile since they are made of wood.

I'd allow for Light Crossbows & Shortbows to be Martial One-Handed, but require Heavy Crossbows & Longbows (Composite as well) to be Two-Handed. This helps demonstrate their size, weight, and bulk.

If the weapons are crafted from metal, I'd allow the Fragile condition to be removed (Unless it's of Brass / Lead / Gold, in which case it stays).

Double Crossbows could deal 1d8 for their additional weight.

I'm sure someone would try to "swing & fire" their crossbow (Applying toward rifles as well). That'd be up to the DM todecide.

I'd also allow for your Enchantments to roll over into melee as well. So if you're being flanked and don't have time to load your weapon, clock them over the head with it and call it good.

[Theliah Strongarm]

daimaru wrote:

Zhayne wrote:

... okay, yeah, that's true, daimaru, but what does it have to do with, say, dealing bludgeoning damage with a sword?

The original question was about changing damage type so I thought the answer applied as lethal/non-lethal and that's what I was really answering.

I've never seen anywhere that you could deal bludgeoning damage with a sword. Seems like it would a natural for fighting skeletons so if we could you'd think it would be mentioned.

That being said, if you wanted to deal non-lethal damage with a sword that would be hitting with the flat, and that would be using it as a bludgeon. But I've run into problems before by trying to use logic in a game, so I don't know.

Well, if you think about it, using a sword to deal bludgeoning damage would be nonlethal damage, as it's much harder to kill someone with the flat of the blade than with the edge. Or you could use the rule for improv. weapons in the Core Rulebook.

But a new question arises: can you use the butt of a gun as a bludgeoning weapon?

Answer: yes you can, as per a improv. quarterstaff.
See? Just use the improvised weapon rules or the nonlethal rules as you see fit for weapons not suited to different tasks.

[Theliah Strongarm]

I don't want to hear that this thread is almost 2 years old.