Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |
With another 15k in pledges we will unlock our final book "The Book of Lost Spells" and on the way we will also unlock 20 more monsters for a total of 240 entries in "Fifth Edition Foes" (we currently stand 220 entries).
$35,000 (LOCKED) We add ten more monsters to 5th Edition Foes
$40,000 (LOCKED) We add ten more monsters to 5th Edition Foes
$45,000 (LOCKED) We will publish the Book of Lost Spells as an add-on (add $40 to your pledge to receive this book)
Joshua Goudreau |
I have a question about the $40 level. I am primarily interested in Quests of Doom over 5th Edition Foes so will I need to donate $80 and get both or is it possible to donate $40 and just get QoD. I ask because, while a monster book is great, my gaming budget is severely limited and I might not be able to donate at all. If I can swing it, I'm wondering exactly what I can get.
Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
While pledging continued support for Pathfinder and Swords and Wizardry, yep, they did. If you like Frog God Games Pathfinder (or other system) products, you will have the opportunity to get them. Some, such as Dunes of Desolation are only Pathfinder compatible. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Bill let Lisa and Erik know before the announcement what they were doing. Perhaps they see it as expanding the game base and good for gaming as a whole. I know I do.
Lastgrasp--I assure you I cleared this with Lisa before we did it and there were no surprises. She was quite supportive. Also know that any book we do for 5e will also have a Pathfinder version (unless its a reprint of existing material).
Lisa and company saved the industry--heck, she is the one that persuaded me to get back into the business.
Part of the reason I wanted to announce this at the show was to make sure everyone knew we were not abandoning Pathfinder--it was important for me to make sure that our PRIMARY focus is, and has been since we started in 2010, supporting PGFRP--heck, I even played in the society game this time around! (3rd PF game ever).
The main goal here is to support the whole community-I wanted to make sure we brought stuff to rules light (S&W), rules medium (5E) and rules heavy (PFRPG) players so we can serve every market and keep prices down (e.g. art and maps get paid for once). It lets us drop our prices (or at least not raise them) as expenses go up (and I think everyone knows we are not money grabbers --see Rappan Athuk and Cyclopean Deeps refunds when we got cheaper printing quotes).
I also wanted to see IF there was a market for the new game.
Anyway, hope that addresses this--we are in a really good space with our partnership with Paizo.
Bill
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Sunderstone |
TBH, I'm a little annoyed at the current trend that most of the products starting out as kickstarters requiring us to fund them. Then add to that, some exclusive content only goes to backers who donate $x amount.
A kickstarter every now and then for a huge product is ok I guess, though the exclusives via donation tiers is kind of lame. Maybe you should reward all the people willing to trust you and invest sight unseen after the product is released (also so we don't end up with another Razor Coast fiasco). Necromancer used to practice this, they called it Web Enhancements.... and they were free.
I'm an old school fan of Necromancer, I even had almost every module they published in print version. But from the promised Vampire and Liches enhancement (I was looking forward to the hinted at Vampire expansion) that never made it and the other stuff that never appeared from the lineup, I got the impression that Necro was only going to publish something they could guarantee would sell well to justify the usage of the spare time they devote to such products. Now and again, they stated previously that Necro was not their main job (also understandable).
I just can't get behind the "let the players fund this" attitude that all things are now starting out as a kickstarter as of late.
Again, every now and then a huge product may require some funding to justify the time spent, etc..... But what happens when the funding goals are met and then even doubled? Will we ever see products we don't have to fund beforehand again? No more free web enhancements?
I wish you luck and I hope that all these kickstarters eventually enable Necromancer to become a regular publisher ala Paizo or even WotC.
As an aside, I wonder what Chris Roberts will do with all that overage on his Star Citizen game. That particular kickstarter cap was obliterated and is likely enough money to retire his whole generation.
Auxmaulous |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
TBH, I'm a little annoyed at the current trend that most of the products starting out as kickstarters requiring us to fund them. Then add to that, some exclusive content only goes to backers who donate $x amount.
A kickstarter every now and then for a huge product is ok I guess, though the exclusives via donation tiers is kind of lame. Maybe you should reward all the people willing to trust you and invest sight unseen after the product is released (also so we don't end up with another Razor Coast fiasco). Necromancer used to practice this, they called it Web Enhancements.... and they were free.
This makes Zero sense and it sounds like you are tainting your logic with your frustration of not being able to fund kickstarters. If you recall, the guy behind Frog God and Necromancer Games Saved Razor Coast (him and a few other people helping keep it alive/raised from the dead).
You think they should "Reward people willing to invest sight unseen after a product is released?" Really?
These guys are not Wotc or Paizo that can afford to print up a book that is unpopular (no way to gauge how successful it will be) without knowing what kind of sales they are going to get. For their smaller books (Dunes of Desolation by FGG) they didn't make a kickstarter, they added it as a backer kit option for early access - beyond that the book didn't get KS funding. It was just a small book they took a risk on to add to their catalog.
BTW - did you buy that book? Probably not.
That last point is to illustrate producing product "sight unseen".
A couple of unpopular books/big projects - and you say good-bye to this company.
I'm an old school fan of Necromancer, I even had almost every module they published in print version. But from the promised Vampire and Liches enhancement (I was looking forward to the hinted at Vampire expansion) that never made it and the other stuff that never appeared from the lineup, I got the impression that Necro was only going to publish something they could guarantee would sell well to justify the usage of the spare time they devote to such products. Now and again, they stated previously that Necro was not their main job (also understandable).
I just can't get behind the "let the players fund this" attitude that all things are now starting out as a kickstarter as of late.
That's the thing though - you don't need to fund this. You can leave it up to other gamers to support the hobby (the real "sight unseen" crowd), then when 95% of the KS-made product is available for regular purchase you can pick it up. Only the re-issue of Rappan Athuk (from their old catalog) had an exclusive module/level - everything else is pretty much available on their website. So far on these 5e books, I'm not seeing anything yet that is backer exclusive (I wish their was), we are just getting the books a couple of bucks cheaper/earlier while helping guarantee that they get made.
You contradict yourself several times here and you post sounds like sour grapes to me because you can't fund a project or just choose to avoid KS. You want them to publish books "sight unseen" but you seem to understand that they need to "publish something they could guarantee would sell" - two points that directly contradict themselves.
You seem to want the old style selling format - go to your favorite GS, browse through the books and pick up what you like. That doesn't work anymore. Most of those brick and mortar LFGS are gone. These guys don't want to produce a book that no one wants and is going to languish on a bookshelf somewhere. They want to know the demand, produce X books and pass on some savings and give early access to backers - with the idea that the books will be added to their existing catalog.
Again, every now and then a huge product may require some funding to justify the time spent, etc..... But what happens when the funding goals are met and then even doubled? Will we ever see products we don't have to fund beforehand again? No more free web enhancements?
Again, you seem to be stuck in 2003 mentality. Every major book project (new campaign, mega module reprint for new gaming system, etc) is probably going to be a KS project from these guys. They can gauge the worthiness of taking on the project, and on top of that WE (the consumer) get more of what we want if it is fully backed (increased content). Keep in mind that everyone gets that increased content - even people like you who may buy the product after KS and goes to regular sale.
So the KS format (for their major products) is designed to: add more fans to their fanbase, gauge the popularity of potential product, maximize the potential of a product (best book we can get), while minimizing risk and exposure. On top of that it's a great way for a company like FGG/NG to communicate with their existing fans.
And on top of that Part II: It's a way for some backers to be able to buy products at a reduced price - something they otherwise couldn't afford.
As an aside, I wonder what Chris Roberts will do with all that overage on his Star Citizen game. That particular kickstarter cap was obliterated and is likely enough money to retire his whole generation.
I could give two s&&$s about the Star Citizen KS, what about the Sword of Air kickstarter that missed an extra 100 encounter areas because we where short on funding? That was an RPG travesty - if I had the money I would pay Bill Webb directly to write and publish those encounter areas.
Sunderstone |
Auxmalous... Where to begin...
TBH, I have a job (of 22 years) that pays well, I have numerous vices from video games and yearly gaming rig rebuilds to my Jeep accessories, etc. I have no sour grapes about being able to afford an RPG book or three. You assume (again wrongly) that I am frustrated by not being able to fund kickstarters. You are way off here.
I'm also all about PDF versions so I could care less about brick and mortar distribution. Even my novels are on my tablet, I buy very few dead tree versions. Thinking about it, the only dead tree stuff I still buy are my weekly DC comics.
After you calm down, maybe you could try looking at my post from a more neutral view and get to the substance of it.
The only thing you are right about is that I didn't invest in Razor Coast, I just wouldn't want to see a similar situation from Necromancer with some future product because this may or may not be their full time job. I'm not saying such a thing would happen with Bill and the gang, but it could.
what about the Sword of Air kickstarter that missed an extra 100 encounter areas because we where short on funding? That was an RPG travesty - if I had the money I would pay Bill Webb directly to write and publish those encounter areas.
No, that didn't come across as fanboyish at all. Whatever works for you is ok though, I'm a little more relaxed about this than you are. Apologies if my post struck a nerve, but this is a forum. You and I just have differing opinions about the Kickstarters.
Auxmaulous |
After you calm down, maybe you could try looking at my post from a more neutral view and get to the substance of it.
There is no neutral view of it - you don't like the kickstarter format and you will fall over yourself in contradictions to state that. I don't have a problem with people who don't like KS, you just made points that didn't make sense or were at odds with each other.
I'm an old school fan of Necromancer, I even had almost every module they published in print version.
No, that didn't come across as fanboyish at all.
Steve Geddes |
...maybe you could try looking at my post from a more neutral view and get to the substance of it.
How would you summarise that? It seemed to me you were basically saying that you don't like kickstarters. Was there substance other than your preference?
For my part, kickstarters are brilliant because they allow products that wouldn't otherwise get made. There's just not the capital sloshing around in the RPG world outside of the biggest half dozen or so publishers to allow the production of really big, juicy products (and even the bigger companies have tended to shy away from such, except in special circumstances). The only downside i see is the occasional delayed product and even more occasional product that never gets delivered. I do wish the risks were a bit better spelled out, to protect people not used to backing, but awareness of those risks will no doubt come as the market matures.
To me it's the best of both worlds - people who don't like kickstarters can wait until the product is released and buy it then (typically getting a superior product than if the small time publisher had to take a financial risk from the outset). Those of us who like crowd funding get to support it, plus have more say in how projects are developed.
I don't really see who loses (other than those who go in not realising that its a greater risk than a preorder).
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
ShinHakkaider |
The only real way to do a $40k or so cost project is this. Keep in mind we are a small basement company, and that we write checks from the bank of Bill and Krista.
I dont know HOW MANY TIMES you can say this and people STILL not get the bloody point. It's either this (KICKSTARTER) or the product doenst get made.
I mean you guys have been saying this for YEARS and in more than one place but still there are people who still have a problem with it.
Auxmaulous |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bill Webb wrote:The only real way to do a $40k or so cost project is this. Keep in mind we are a small basement company, and that we write checks from the bank of Bill and Krista.I dont know HOW MANY TIMES you can say this and people STILL not get the bloody point. It's either this (KICKSTARTER) or the product doenst get made.
I mean you guys have been saying this for YEARS and in more than one place but still there are people who still have a problem with it.
Lol, well in fairness some people are fearful of the risks associated with Kickstarters - and they have their reasons.
I don't look at that way of course, in fact I think several gaming resources would have languished or been under-produced/developed without a KS: City State of the Invincible Warlord for one, the recent Metamorphosis Alpha supersized book - these are niche products within an already small industry/fan base. Smaller games or supplements that have an equally small but devoted fan base who want to see these products back in print, updated, revised or expanded. I wish this option was around or used when they were trying to launch Chill 3rd edition.
Without the KS option of funding I would imagine than many of these things would just remain projects or dreams that would never see the light of day.
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Well, we have delivered 3 1/2 of 5 so far--soon to be 4/5, and the 5th will be late (a couple months), but is not yet overdue.
That is absolutely true--if as product does not fund--no point in making it. About the time I made a $40k book and lost $30k, it would likely be our last book.
Voadam--the 5e monster book is about 70% redone Tome monsters--the rest are either from new books (like Dunes) or totally new. No point in making a PF version really--I'll get the new monsters in a book at some point.
DaveMage |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I would also like to point out that if it weren't for crowd-funding (we weren't twigged onto Kickstarter at the time) The Slumbering Tsar Saga never would have seen print. It was just too big a project for anyone to tackle any other way.
I'm probably in the minority, but I *really* enjoyed how Tsar was able to be released.
With Kickstarter, just having pre-orders is probably not going to happen again, but I remain so happy to have helped bring that product to fruition. Such a role-playing gem.
Auxmaulous |
Chuck Wright wrote:
I would also like to point out that if it weren't for crowd-funding (we weren't twigged onto Kickstarter at the time) The Slumbering Tsar Saga never would have seen print. It was just too big a project for anyone to tackle any other way.I'm probably in the minority, but I *really* enjoyed how Tsar was able to be released.
With Kickstarter, just having pre-orders is probably not going to happen again, but I remain so happy to have helped bring that product to fruition. Such a role-playing gem.
Same here - I forgot how long of a road it was to Tsar...
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
justmebd |
lol--when Greg hit me with 500,000 words I about fainted at the thought of paying the printer bill...
I would love to see you stat up the Printer's Bill. I'm sure it's at least a CR 20 creature. ESPECIALLY if Greg is involved.
*CLARIFICATION* This is a joke, I do not actually want to see/hear/know what the Printer's Bill was.
Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |
Voadam |
Anyone using an iPad or tablet to read Tsar? Big PDFs sometimes get a tad slow on devices, I've been thinking about buying it (don't think I'll run it though).
On the Frog Gods site the pdf was over 300 mb when I went to download it.
It looks like it is listed as 83 mb on rpgnow so you might consider getting it there for the smaller file size.
Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Skeeter Green Pathfinder Rules Conversion, Frog God Games |
Are the Pregens in the free D&D 5th edition of The Wizard's Amulet from http://froggodgames.org/wizards-amulet based on D&D Next or the 5th edition Players guide? Will this adventure be legal in organized play?
Sent you a reply. Echoing Bill's statement, probably not. We're not affiliated with WotC, don't know their setup for Organized play, and our adventures don't set out to challenge you, they set out to kill you. Be on your toes!
Skeeter
MerricB |
our adventures don't set out to challenge you, they set out to kill you. Be on your toes!
That said, I'm not entirely sure that the new D&D Starter Set adventure doesn't set out to kill you! There are some exceedingly difficult combats in there, especially if the DM plays them for all they're worth...
It's rather nice to see, actually.
I really hope Wizards comes out with a good license that allows 3PP to contribute to the 5E experience without too much trouble.
Cheers,
Merric
Bill Webb Publisher, Frog God Games |
Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |
LordofMuck |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I haven't really looked into D&D 5th edition much yet, still GM'ing Pathfinder, and have just bought a big bunch of PF Frog God Games stuff - Stoneheart Valley, ToH 4, Lost City of Barakus, to complement Rappan Athuk, Slumbering Tsar and Tome of Horrors Complete. So needless to say, i really like the products that Frog God Games (and earlier Necromancer Games) puts out! :D
Still i had no inclination to back this 5th ed kickstarter, as i already have PF, and when i want to play old school/classic (which i DO!) i already have Basic/Expert D&D, AD&D, ACKS, Labyrinth Lord etc :)
So why would i be interested in 5th ed...and thus this kickstarter...
Only now, just seeing this Azata stat block, it hit me, by surprise,.... OMG that's just like a Swords & Wizardry stat block, or a stat block straight out of my old 1st ed MM... More correctly, its EXACTLY like a Castles & Crusades, or Blood & Treasure, stat block...!
I know, i know... it probably shouldn't surprise me, but still it does! It's like, OMG, maybe, just maybe.... D&D is...Back...at it's (TSR) roots....!
Just a funny feeling, seeing that stat block!
Now i'm thinking hmm... if i get these new Necromancer 5th books, even if i don't like the actual 5th ed. D&D... hell at least the stat blocks looks totally compatible to C&C or any other retroclone (with ascending AC)
Chuck Wright Layout and Design, Frog God Games |