GM advice for stealing halfling (laws) and RotRL with my group (monk, cleric, witch, rogue)

[Oblivyax]

Hi, let's start by saying it will not be my first game as GM, but it will be my first in Pathfinder so also the first for an advendture path. I,ll do the RotRL Anniversary edition. We'll be playing tuesday evening, so medium sessions.

Let's start by my group:
Human Monk (varisian) LN
Dwarven Cleric of Torag LG
Human witch (cheliax) LE
Halfling Rogue CG

So first question:
1) is theses classes a good group composition for RotRL?
Will they be missing spell casting, or they might find it hard or easy at specific parts?

Next: You need a little background for this: the rogue will be played by a player that has an habit to make rogue halfling with a specific "Behavior". In other games I heard of or took part, he was the kind of character to spend time stealing the crowd of villages and cities. As the games where traveling over multiple location, it wasn't a big dead since if caught, he could run away and wait for the players to move to the next location. Also, when meeting important rich NPC, he would try to steal them, by sleigh of hand, or broking through their estate|home.

We already exchanged messages speaking of the kind of character he would play, and it seemed like he agree that the game seems to be a lot outdoor and in dungeons, or in ready to loot places anyway. So he decided to think about it.

Now I received his character sheet, and he seems to have created a character with the skills to do it.

He will probably not be stealing right at the start, but lets say he does...

2) Anyone know the laws concerning stealing in Sandpoint\Lost Coast\Varisia?
3) What could be the consequences of theft for a few copper in Sandpoint? (Trial, Caution, Jail?)
4) consequences of stealing from a rich noble, or commerce in Sandpoint?

I want to be prepared, just in case.

[HangarFlying]

There is a standing law that Kender-types are immediately beheaded for any such infraction. I'm only half-kidding.

In all seriousness, while not specifically called out, I imagine there would be an escalation of punishment: starting with a few nights in jail, to eventually being shipped off to Magnimar for harsher penalties and eventual banishment. In reality, this AP is best served if that type of behavior didn't occur. And while it's possible for the player to get away with some petty stuff in the beginning, it should go away quickly because they're intended to become standing members of the community.

That's not to say thieving won't have its uses, but annoying kleptomania should be resoundingly squashed. YMMV.

[Oblivyax]

Thank you HangarFlying for your reply, I guess we'll see when he is playing how it goes... and if he still steal everyone, we'll see how everyone like the negative effect it has on the game. Maybe he'll change his caracter style or make another one...

[Karolina Dean]

1) My group is currently halfway through part 4 without an arcane caster and is doing fine. There is a lot of good loot for arcane casters though, so I'd encourage someone to consider it. Without an arcane caster Use Magic Device has become important for my PCs.

2-4) I don't think there are specific penalties outlined in the AP for how crime would be handled. So it would be pretty much up to the GM how it would be handled. You'd probably want to discuss what you come up with with your player to see that your expectations of how this should be handled are the same before you begin. If he's just snitching little trophies here and there that isn't that obtrusive to everything you probably wouldn't need to worry about playing out jailtime/trials or anything like that, but if he is trying to somehow gain wealth from this there would need to be escalating repercussions.

[Kalshane]

Also keep in mind that Sandpoint has a decent Sczarni presence, and they might take umbrage to someone stealing in their town without their say-so. So even if the thief isn't caught by the authorities, it's possible the criminals will figure him out and give him a stern "talking to".

I agree that this behavior doesn't work well in the campaign as written, and if he decides to engage in his petty larceny in Sandpoint after Local Heroes when he's a celebrity and most of the townsfolk recognize him on sight, he's incredibly foolish. (Magnimar is a different story, though the penalties for getting caught are likely harsher, too.)

[Misroi]

1. I think the group, as written, will be fine. You've got the four pillars covered - tank, skill monkey, arcanist and holy roller. It's a bit unorthodox, but I like it - the rogue's a primary skill monkey, but the monk has quite a few as well. The cleric's the holy roller, but can also switch hit into a tank, supported by the monk. The witch can also backup heal, depending on how they're built. There's a lot of safeguards there, so I think they'll be good.

2-4. I'll agree with everyone else - stealing from the people who are recognizing his heroics is a great way to lose your heroic status. Varisia's a frontier area, so the penalties for petty theft vary locally. For example, Korvosa still retains many of its Chelish roots, so it would probably be punished far harsher than in Magnimar. Magnimar would still punish, but you might be able to find some corrupt members of the force to bribe. The punishment there would probably be incarceration in the upper reaches of the Hells at worst, and almost certainly a fine. Sandpoint is a special case, as mentioned previously. I'd almost give the rogue a sitdown with Sheriff Hemlock if someone accuses him of theft. "I'm giving you a chance to do the right thing. Come clean, and return what you took, and I'll forget this thing ever happened. Just don't ever do it again in my town. This is a one-time offer." And then there's Riddleport, where petty theft is to be expected.

This, of course, ignoring the criminal elements who may have a problem with an independent operator working in any of these towns. If he wants to become a thief, Jubrayl could definitely help with that.

[Akerlof]

Aside from the rules, I'm wondering how the party will handle it. All the other characters are Lawful, so I doubt they'll very much like being associated with a petty thief.

Also, I see that the Witch is Lawful Evil and the Cleric is Lawful Good. This can make for some fun, interesting roleplaying if the players are invested in working together, something like good-natured grumbling at each other while still pulling together when things get tough. It could also be annoying as all get out, causing no end of consternation. Or, it might be nothing, as the players just had to put some letters in the alignment box because that's what the rules expect. While it's up to the players whether and how that kind of conflict will play out, I'd keep an eye out for problems because it's the kind of thing that can really make the game unfun for some players.

[Latrecis]

Akerlof wrote:

Aside from the rules, I'm wondering how the party will handle it. All the other characters are Lawful, so I doubt they'll very much like being associated with a petty thief.

Also, I see that the Witch is Lawful Evil and the Cleric is Lawful Good. This can make for some fun, interesting roleplaying if the players are invested in working together, something like good-natured grumbling at each other while still pulling together when things get tough. It could also be annoying as all get out, causing no end of consternation. Or, it might be nothing, as the players just had to put some letters in the alignment box because that's what the rules expect. While it's up to the players whether and how that kind of conflict will play out, I'd keep an eye out for problems because it's the kind of thing that can really make the game unfun for some players.

Thank you. Your phrasing is better than my crotchety alignment orthodoxy (Example: Why would a LG dwarven priest of Torag willingly associate with a LE witch and why would three Lawful characters willingly tolerate a Chaotic petty thief?)

[James B. Cline]

Book 2/Crime and Punishment Spoiler:

Did anyone else get this weird Crime and Punishment idea? In the book the main character Dostoyovski (I think) kills a pawn broker and is wracked with guilt after he robs her. I think you could make some really good tie ins with Aldern Foxglove. I mean the guy is trying so hard to be better, stronger, whatever and if your player steals from him it could be a good tie in. For instance, you could have Aldern be embarrassed if he were to give the players a reward and he didn't have the money on him. It would be an interesting lead up to the Misgivings and his fall. He's a noble after all. Just my thoughts.

As to the laws of the town, I'm sure a day in jail per silver piece is about right. Sandpoint doesn't look like one of those towns to lop hands off. I had some kids sit down at my table and play this game with three rogues who went around robbing people. The group also had a paladin who ended up being put in charge of reforming them rather than throwing them in jail.

[Kalshane]

FYI: Dostoyevsky was the author. Raskolnikov was the character.

[Umbranus]

Latrecis wrote:

Akerlof wrote:

Aside from the rules, I'm wondering how the party will handle it. All the other characters are Lawful, so I doubt they'll very much like being associated with a petty thief.

Also, I see that the Witch is Lawful Evil and the Cleric is Lawful Good. This can make for some fun, interesting roleplaying if the players are invested in working together, something like good-natured grumbling at each other while still pulling together when things get tough. It could also be annoying as all get out, causing no end of consternation. Or, it might be nothing, as the players just had to put some letters in the alignment box because that's what the rules expect. While it's up to the players whether and how that kind of conflict will play out, I'd keep an eye out for problems because it's the kind of thing that can really make the game unfun for some players.

Thank you. Your phrasing is better than my crotchety alignment orthodoxy (Example: Why would a LG dwarven priest of Torag willingly associate with a LE witch and why would three Lawful characters willingly tolerate a Chaotic petty thief?)

Depending on how they interact I see the witch as less of a problem. But lowly scum who robs people and taints the dwarf's honour by association? Difficult situation.

[CeruleanSpirit]

1) I'd say it doesn't really matter, let them play what they want. Just give them a suggestion of playing a balanced party (Fighter, Cleric, Wizard & something else). The party above look perfectly fine to me, if they play it right.

2) I'll assume that specific "Behavior" is bordering chaotic-neutral kender kleptomania: If he doesn't get showered with stuff in the dungeon, he will steal stuff in town. A little here and there: ok. A lot: BAD!! Warn him out of game. As HangarFlying said, escalate the punishment when he get caught. From a fine, a few nights in prison to being shipped to magnimar in a cage and spend his next years in the Hell prison and having his character sheet unceremoniously ripped apart in front of his eyes.

3) If it's a few copper, I'd say a slap on the wrist by Sheriff Hemlock and a warning not to do it again. Then escalate to what is mentionned in (2). If you want to give him a chance, he might be kicked out of town for a while if he persist.

4) Depending on the noble status and reach, hell might be thrown at him. Judge by yourself. From a commerce in Magnimar, normal law will apply, that might mean jail time.

[Oblivyax]

Finally, we just finished the part 1.
It was epic, I had to change a few encounters because the Halfling decided to be a seducer/charmer and went full diplomacy on a few villains, and made his personal profit while selling the loot. He kept the amount he gained by haggling over half-price. He was happy with that, and so are the other players who were bluffed at first then decided, when they learned the truth, to accept in exchange of better prices when purchasing.
Most of the fights were awesome, between the monk grappling to submission some animals or mercenaries, the witch slumberings others who were then tied up or 'coup-de-grace'. The dwarf served as a punching bag and went down the most, then at level 3 took heavy armor profeciency and was since a most efficient tank. When fights went wrong, misfortune from the witch, channeling from the cleric, high damage from monk and rogue served them right. I look forward the next part where they will have different challenges!

At the end of the last fight they had to flee to survive. But the rogue tried to steal candles before leaving the dangerous zone, enough to be in range for a last attack who took him down to "exactly" his constitution in negative health. He left the table while the others went back to town, and is thinking now if he keep his fun caracter with 'raise dead' or create a new one.