Quark, you haven't been outside the US much, have you?
Doesn't seem so if you think everyone else has "systems" so much inferior to what the exists in the US.
I guess you think massive homelessness, highly expensive medical care, weekly shootings, rapidly rising inequality and, as this thread is about, religious interference in medical care is better than... well, pretty much none of those.PENIS MEASURING CONTEST GETTING READY TO START!
MY COUNTRY HAS A BIGGER PENIS THEN YOURS!
Yes, that's clearly the only conclusion to my post...
Quark, you haven't been outside the US much, have you?
Doesn't seem so if you think everyone else has "systems" so much inferior to what the exists in the US.
I guess you think massive homelessness, highly expensive medical care, weekly shootings, rapidly rising inequality and, as this thread is about, religious interference in medical care is better than... well, pretty much none of those.You obviously haven't read all my posts in this thread.
I think this country is one of the suckyest 'western-style' democracies going. And the suck started in earnest in the 1960's.
And even at that, on a global scale, we do pretty good. There are about 3 billion people in India and China (and the countries in between) that have it significantly worse than we do here. Add to that about 1 billion in Africa that are measurably worse off and I don't need anymore examples to then say we beat "most other places" in relative suck.
I think that's moving the goal posts a bit if you suddenly start comparing to third world/developing countries.
I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
Please read the entire thread.
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Please read the entire thread.I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
No. Read a couple dozen posts at random. Most of it was off topic to the OP.
I dunno man. I've spent a pretty significant amount of time traveling, including two weeks of literal hell in Africa. I don't understand why something this small deserves protests and 24/7 news coverage. It's not like they came out and said men get whatever they want, women get nothing.
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Please read the entire thread.I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
No. Read a couple dozen posts at random. Most of it was off topic to the OP.
I dunno man. I've spent a pretty significant amount of time traveling, including two weeks of literal hell in Africa. I don't understand why something this small deserves protests and 24/7 news coverage. It's not like they came out and said men get whatever they want, women get nothing.
No, they said their religion trumps law, facts, and women's health. They said we will invest and make profits off of products that offend our religion but won't pay for a prescription given to a woman by her doctor because of our ignorance. The Supreme Court upheld their assertion that you can ignore parts of laws that you believe are doing something against your religion even if it is provably false. Now comes the fun part where that ruling is tested and we see if other religious beliefs are allowed to trump laws or if only legitimate beliefs (read: Christian) can.
I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
No, they said their religion trumps law, facts, and women's health. They said we will invest and make profits off of products that offend our religion but won't pay for a prescription given to a woman by her doctor because of our ignorance. The Supreme Court upheld their assertion that you can ignore parts of laws that you believe are doing something against your religion even if it is provably false. Now comes the fun part where that ruling is tested and we see if other religious beliefs are allowed to trump laws or if only legitimate beliefs (read: Christian) can.
Well that and if the government has already conceded that part of the law and is covering other people in similar situations, then there isn't any reason the government can't cover these people.
Government decided to try to be reasonable and let some groups slide by, this opened up the precedent that others could also claim the government should cover them as well.
No, they said their religion trumps law, facts, and women's health. They said we will invest and make profits off of products that offend our religion but won't pay for a prescription given to a woman by her doctor because of our ignorance. The Supreme Court upheld their assertion that you can ignore parts of laws that you believe are doing something against your religion even if it is provably false. Now comes the fun part where that ruling is tested and we see if other religious beliefs are allowed to trump laws or if only legitimate beliefs (read: Christian) can.Well that and if the government has already conceded that part of the law and is covering other people in similar situations, then there isn't any reason the government can't cover these people.
Government decided to try to be reasonable and let some groups slide by, this opened up the precedent that others could also claim the government should cover them as well.
Click my link above to find out more about that.
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Not keeping up to date?I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
That's pretty f%$#ed up. I still think it's kind of silly to expect your employer to pay for your birth control (my main issue being my premium goes up to cover the additional costs to the insurance provider, I'm paying more than ten times what I used to), but it's pretty messed up to cover all forms of male birth control, including Viagra, and then say you don't have to cover ANY forms of birth control for women.
This whole health care thing is nonsense. It would be simple to enact a system where no one ever had to worry about medical costs or food or a place to live. But there are senators that NEED that Ferrari benefits package more than homeless people need houses.
Still, as far as these insurance issues go, women not getting birth control isn't the biggest problem.
.
When Hobby Lobby filed the case, its retirement plan had more than $73 million
invested in funds with stakes in contraception makers. [ url= 401k freak-out ]
So, now they are prolly working on taking back everyone's 401K retirement benefits.
"These companies include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes
Plan B and ParaGard, a copper IUD, and Actavis, which makes a generic
version of Plan B and distributes Ella. Other stock holdings in the
mutual funds selected by Hobby Lobby include Pfizer, the maker of
Cytotec and Prostin E2, which are used to induce abortions; Bayer,
which manufactures the hormonal IUDs Skyla and Mirena; AstraZeneca,
which has an Indian subsidiary that manufactures Prostodin, Cerviprime,
and Partocin, three drugs commonly used in abortions; and Forest
Laboratories, which makes Cervidil, a drug used to induce abortions.
Several funds in the Hobby Lobby retirement plan also invested in Aetna
and Humana, two health insurance companies that cover surgical
abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in many of the
health care policies they sell."
.
I can't name every single company my 401k invests in for me. Can you?
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I can't name every single company my 401k invests in for me. Can you?
.
Yes. I know every Expected Return and Volatility, Beta, and P/E ratio of each company being held in each Mutual Fund.
I keep them in an Excel spreadsheet, and have Visual Basic code to update it periodically.
My Dad taught me how to do it.
.
Wow, ok.
I don't quite get the Viagra and birth control connection. One is trying to help your system function, the other is trying to circumvent your system functioning. Viagra is more akin to infertility treatment than birth control.
I don't quite get the Viagra and birth control connection. One is trying to help your system function, the other is trying to circumvent your system functioning. Viagra is more akin to infertility treatment than birth control.
So you're okay with paying for men to have sex but not women?
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Not keeping up to date?I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
That's pretty f@$*ed up. I still think it's kind of silly to expect your employer to pay for your birth control (my main issue being my premium goes up to cover the additional costs to the insurance provider, I'm paying more than ten times what I used to), but it's pretty messed up to cover all forms of male birth control, including Viagra, and then say you don't have to cover ANY forms of birth control for women.
This whole health care thing is nonsense. It would be simple to enact a system where no one ever had to worry about medical costs or food or a place to live. But there are senators that NEED that Ferrari benefits package more than homeless people need houses.
Still, as far as these insurance issues go, women not getting birth control isn't the biggest problem.
Your employer is not paying for birth control! They might be paying for your health insurance which covers birth control.
If you go to the hospital, and a doctor prescribes you medicine, which your insurance covers, should you need your boss's approval?
I can't name every single company my 401k invests in for me. Can you?
Just to be clear. Are you saying you're okay with profiting off of something you feel is morally wrong as long as you don't know about it?
I was suggesting that Hobby Lobby might be unaware of how tied into the retirement plans for their employees the pharma companies were. I think most folks are, Grand Magus being the exception, not the rule.
I could be wrong, though.
I don't quite get the Viagra and birth control connection. One is trying to help your system function, the other is trying to circumvent your system functioning. Viagra is more akin to infertility treatment than birth control.So you're okay with paying for men to have sex but not women?
First off, I didn't say that birth control shouldn't be covered. I said that I don't see the connection between Viagra and birth control. Birth control tries to prevent pregnancy, Viagra creates opportunities to get pregnant. They seem to be counter examples. As I said, Viagra is more akin to fertility treatments, though I would also concede it is also akin to medication like ospemifene (and these should also be covered by the health plan), used to help older individuals stay sexual active, while not relating to pregnancy at all.
.
When Hobby Lobby filed the case, its retirement plan had more than $73 million
invested in funds with stakes in contraception makers. [ url= 401k freak-out ]So, now they are prolly working on taking back everyone's 401K retirement benefits.
"These companies include Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, which makes
Plan B and ParaGard, a copper IUD, and Actavis, which makes a generic
version of Plan B and distributes Ella. Other stock holdings in the
mutual funds selected by Hobby Lobby include Pfizer, the maker of
Cytotec and Prostin E2, which are used to induce abortions; Bayer,
which manufactures the hormonal IUDs Skyla and Mirena; AstraZeneca,
which has an Indian subsidiary that manufactures Prostodin, Cerviprime,
and Partocin, three drugs commonly used in abortions; and Forest
Laboratories, which makes Cervidil, a drug used to induce abortions.
Several funds in the Hobby Lobby retirement plan also invested in Aetna
and Humana, two health insurance companies that cover surgical
abortions, abortion drugs, and emergency contraception in many of the
health care policies they sell."
Christians Call Out Hobby Lobby For Hypocrisy
"'You cannot call your business "Christian" when arguing before the Supreme Court, and then set aside Christian values when you're placing a bulk order for cheap wind chimes,' wrote Christian author and columnist Jonathan Merritt in a recent article for The Week."
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I don't really see the problem. It's a few specific products, they still cover all other forms of female birth control. Also the birth control not covered generally costs less in-store than the co-pay for many of the forms that are covered.
Why is this a world ending issue? Do I not understand because I'm a sexist racist patriaricle capitalist pig?
Because your medical care should be between you and your doctor, not your employer, and this sets precedent for far worse intrusions.
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95% of the population couldn't have been land owning white men. I'm guessing 50-ish % were women and a significant portion black.
You should stop lying.
HA! Silly old bear. :D
The answer to your self-induced conundrum would be 95% of people were represented by those who were eligible to vote.
Similarly, in an autocracy/monarchy 100% of citizens are represented by their king!
But seriously, representation is determined by ability to vote. Women, poor and nonwhites couldn't vote and thus were not represented. If representation meant as you define, colonists were represented in parliament.
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I do exactly that every time I pay U.S. taxes, so that more unasked-for overseas military invasions can take place, so that more of our own citizens can have their lives destroyed as casualties of the "war on drugs" and "war on so-called sex offenders" and "war on pirates" and finally "war on everyone left after that." So, yeah, the horrible things that Uncle Sam does with some of that money are, to some extent, on my head, too.If the homeless man or employee was showing murderous intentions, and you just shrug and say "Oh, well, murderers gonna murder," and handed over the cash, I don't think you can totally shirk a bit responsibility there.I don't think anyone does that.
I was at a peace confab held at the local Catholic university a whiles back, some anniversary for some encyclical or something, vainly trying to peddle socialist newspapers to what turned out to be a strange assembly of nuns, libertarians, and vegans. I didn't find anyone that was all three, but I didn't talk to everyone.
Anyway, I made the round of the other tables and found mysel in front of some group with a name like War Tax Resisters League or some such. And I looked through their brochures, and it was going on about not paying your taxes to support the imperialist war machine like Thoreau or something and I thought "How does that even work? UPS sends my taxes directly to the government before I even get a chance to see them." At that exact moment, my local comrade buddy came along and I asked him. "How does this work?"
"Oh," he replied, "It's petty-bourgeois bullshiznit. Who gets to decide whether they're going to pay their taxes or not? Lawyers and dentists, that's who. Not the f&#*ing working class, that's for damn sure."
Two things I can recommend:
1) A life of poverty, such as my humble own, in which you only end up giving them like six hundred bucks, which doesn't even cover an FBI agent's salary for a week;
or, if that doesn't seem attractive,
2) joining a local anti-capitalist organization and dedicating your life to smashing American imperialism through international proletarian socialist revolution. At the very least, they'll have to spend some of your tax money monitoring you and maybe give some substance abuser, so-called sex offender and/or pirate a chance to get away.
Anyway, I made the round of the other tables and found mysel in front of some group with a name like War Tax Resisters League or some such. And I looked through their brochures, and it was going on about not paying your taxes to support the imperialist war machine like Thoreau or something and I thought "How does that even work? UPS sends my taxes directly to the government before I even get a chance to see them." At that exact moment, my local comrade buddy came along and I asked him. "How does this work?""Oh," he replied, "It's petty-bourgeois bullshiznit. Who gets to decide whether they're going to pay their taxes or not? Lawyers and dentists, that's who. Not the f!*+ing working class, that's for damn sure."
Bloody computers and electronic transactions. We don't even have the option of robbing the tax collector's carriage on its way out of town any longer :(
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You can't call your business christian and accept credit cards (usury).
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Bloody computers and electronic transactions. We don't even have the option of robbing the tax collector's carriage on its way out of town any longer :(Better days.
Look, I'm not trying to undermine anyone else's efforts to undermine the system, but that thar is why want to get yerself a lordly title and drive the ficken tax-cart! One time, Dicey bit a gold piece and was all, "M'lord Dice, this thing tastes horrible!"
I was all, "I'll trade you that tooth-dulling gp for this tasty, tasty corn chip!"
He took and ate it, and looked at me so gratefully that actually felt some small twinge of conscience. I still took the gp for services rendered, cause, let's be serious, right?
[Composing for a second time--somebody ate my post!]
I was curious about exactly how many white males were not enfranchised during the reigns of our illustrious Founding Plutocrats, but I couldn't find much before I got bored and gave up.
I did find some rather interesting passages from a book on Amazon, but I forget what it was. I was reading about the radical Pennsylvania legislature who, with the help from our dear comrade Tommy Paine, originally set up a unicameral legislature, and then it went on to talk about the more conservative arrangements come up with John Adams and friends in the Bay State. Then there was a bit about Virginia property qualifications, which, IIRC, were 40 acres or the cash equivalent for a city slicker. I don't know, that doesn't sound like 95% of the population to me, but maybe post-revolutionary Virginians had bigger yards.
Anyway, I tried to find it again, but couldn't, but found a much more enjoyable Salon article entitled How John Adams and Thomas Paine clashed over inequality in which, among many other examples of amusing internecine Founding Father invective, Johnny-boy calls Common Sense "a poor, ignorant, malicious, short-sighted, crapulous mass."
Hee hee!
Ah, His Rotundity, The Duke of Braintree. John Adams had no few opinions on the function of government. Not welcome on the Dice Estate for his firebrand cousin. Yes, we consider family relations here. I swear to God, it's like you goblins people just want to feast on all the free corn chips your family can eat or something!
Well, he didn't much care for the landed aristocracy, that's true, but Sammy-boy never let his radical scruples allow him to stop collaborating with Boston's leading slaveowner, John Hancock, nor did it stop him from calling for the execution of the poor farmers of western Massachusetts who revolted under the flag of Captian Daniel Shays.
I'm gonna have to look into it further one of these days, but I've never been particularly impressed with Sammy-boy.
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Don't say that in Boston! The hockey-jocks will assume you're talking about the beer, and we won't know what happened till we find your body floating in a vat.
Good luck with the research, records from that time are spotty at best.
Why not? Who would work for them?
You have to hand it to him though. He was the first President to have an assassination attempt on him....
I'm gonna have to look into it further one of these days, but I've never been particularly impressed with Sammy-boy.
I didn't know Jackson went by the nickname Sammy-boy, but I do have to say that even a cursory read of Sammy-boy's wikipedia page indicates that:
"Adams focused his political agenda on promoting virtue, which he considered essential in a republican government. If republican leaders lacked virtue, he believed, liberty was endangered. His major opponent in this campaign was his former protégé, John Hancock. The two men had had a falling out in the Continental Congress. Adams disapproved of what he viewed as Hancock's vanity and extravagance, which Adams believed were inappropriate in a republican leader. When Hancock left Congress in 1777, Adams and the other Massachusetts delegates voted against thanking Hancock for his service as president of Congress.[185] The struggle continued in Massachusetts. Adams thought that Hancock, by acting like an aristocrat and courting popularity, was not acting the part of a virtuous republican leader.[185] Adams favored James Bowdoin for governor, and was distressed when Hancock won annual landslide victories.[186]"
so, apparently, Sammy's semi-kinda-radical scruples eventually did win out.
I apologize for the calumny and slander, Ghost of Citizen Adams.
I'll let Roy Zimmerman sum it up nicely with his song "SCROTUS".
The Supreme Court Republicans of the United States... SCROTUS!
SCROTUS, deciding constitutional law on the basis of their junk... science.
95% of the population couldn't have been land owning white men. I'm guessing 50-ish % were women and a significant portion black.
You should stop lying.
HA! Silly old bear. :D
The answer to your self-induced conundrum would be 95% of people were represented by those who were eligible to vote.
Is this a serious statement or are you trolling?
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I don't quite get the Viagra and birth control connection. One is trying to help your system function, the other is trying to circumvent your system functioning. Viagra is more akin to infertility treatment than birth control.
It's been talked about already.
Hormonal birth control (including one objected to by Hobby Lobby) is a valid treatment option for medical conditions that women suffer from. These conditions cause serious pain, blood loss, infertility and cancer.
There are multiple conditions, several of which have been named in this thread. You can find them with extremely simple google searches as well.
Which is why so many people hate it.