Dead Shot Deed and Flurry of Blows


Rules Questions


Apologies, but after sifting through half a page of irrelevant results to this query, I'll just make a new thread.

Deadshot

Spoiler:
Dead Shot (Ex): wrote:
At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger’s single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

Now, I find it reasonably clear that it doesn't include TWF or Rapid Shot, but FoB can be made using a single weapon, which muddies the "as if a full attack" for me, as anyone who could flurry with the gun probably would. Also, FoB is clearly "based on BAB" and explicitly a full attack.

Basically what I'm getting at is that the RAW seems to support this interpretation even if RAI didn't account for this interaction.


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Dead Shot is a full round action.

Flurry of Blows is it's own separate full-round action.

They cannot be combined.

Quote:
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so, he may make on additional attack, taking a -2 penalty on all of his attack rolls, as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. These attacks can be any combination of unarmed strikes and attacks with a monk special weapon (he does not need to use two weapons to use this ability). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus from his monk class levels is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
Quote:

Full-Round Actions

A full-round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can't be coupled with a standard or a move action, though if it does not involve moving any distance, you can take a 5-foot step.

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.


Nope. First, FoB off-hand attacks still count as off-hand attacks even when delivered with the same weapon. Second, the off-hand attacks are not granted by BAB. The first is the standard offhand that all characters have available. The others are via the virtual ITWF and GTWF feats. You may get the functionality of the feats by BAB, but that's not the same as getting an iterative attack from BAB.


The conceptual issue for me is that Dead Shot is "essentially a full-attack action" imo.

You aren't actually trying to use 2 separate full-round actions, I really don't see the distinction because FoB is how a monk full-attacks.

I concede this interpretation is inconsistent with the intent, but you'd have to jump through some major hoops to convince me that it matters how the extra attacks are obtained given that there's not multiple weapon shenanigans going on.


While Dead Shot is its own full-round Use Special Ability action, it does reference back to the Full-Attack action. What that entitles you to is a bit unclear as we're still waiting on clarification from the Magus Spell Combat FAQ, but the primary disjunction concerns whether you're allowed to consider this virtual full-attack from which you're determining your attacks as a Flurry. In that scope, it's not even clear that you'd have access to your higher Monk BAB, let along the additional attacks granted or the ability to TWF with the same weapon.

But even then, the additional attacks are not granted by BAB any more than a bonus ki attack or a bonus attack from Haste or similar effects. Only your main, iterative BAB attacks are considered for this ability. And why would I jump through hoops when it's primarily to your benefit to correct the false beliefs in your own mind. A person should jump through hoops to improve their own understanding, not make others jump through hoops to do so.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Dead Shot is a Full Round action, not Full Attack.

You can't combine with any other ting that modifies the Full Attack.

It only provides the attacks you would have from BAB during the Dead Shot, so no Haste, TWF, Flurry, Speed weapon, etc attacks.

It is only referencing the "as if using Full Attack action" to articulate the order in which your attacks based on BAB are performed.


Archaeik wrote:
Now, I find it reasonably clear that it doesn't include TWF or Rapid Shot, but FoB can be made using a single weapon, which muddies the "as if a full attack" for me, as anyone who could flurry with the gun probably would.

How do you propose to flurry with a gun? It's not a monk weapon, and I'm not aware of any deity with "gun" as a favored weapon...

If you're thinking Sohei archetype, you'll have to get 6 levels in Monk and then 7 in Gunslinger...

Unless I'm reading the deed wrong, Clustered Shots gets you the same basic effect, doesn't it?


I think James caught the salient point for me, that the "full attack" language is actually extraneous and generally hinders the overall understanding.

I still have some reservations conceptually about Flurry attacks not being gained from BAB (as it is my view of the spirit of Flurry, dating back to 3.x).
But even with the mechanic(crunch) cleared up, you end up having to ignore that first sentence fluff about pooling ALL of your attack potential which seems misleading...

@Gwen
the build requires Sohei 6, Gunslinger(Musket Master) 7, and Fighter 5/Weapon Master 3
So that minimum level 16 before coming online, which leaves you able to only pick up 8 levels of monk for the purposes of FoB, but that's still 2 extra Double Barreled Musket attacks you couldn't otherwise make. Good idea to grab Trench Fighter instead of WM if you can, which rounds it out nicely to 20 levels. (2 attacks seems like a fair trade for no misfires)

To the benefit:
My understanding is that if DS crits, all of the damage you've accumulated is quadrupled vs needing to crit on each individual shot(which is very unlikely), also, if you still need to worry about misfires, DS practically eliminates this concern. IF it were possible to cram the extra FoB attacks in, it would take the ability from "situationally useful" to "pretty much every round you can".


Each attack crits seperatelt but if your weaker attacks hit it is much easier to do so as all crits threats are at bab -5.


Mojorat wrote:
Each attack crits seperatelt but if your weaker attacks hit it is much easier to do so as all crits threats are at bab -5.

I don't think so

Quote:
If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0).


Weird..how did I miss that ..

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