^^^
With a Graveborn witch I got rediculous with spells like Lipstitch...
^^^
With a Graveborn witch I got rediculous with spells like Lipstitch...
Ya, Gravewalker Witch is my favorite kind, mostly because their 8th level ability is fantastic. Who care if you have to be within 30ft. to use Slumber Hex, its not like your real body is going to take any damage.
Ya, Gravewalker Witch is my favorite kind, mostly because their 8th level ability is fantastic. Who care if you have to be within 30ft. to use Slumber Hex, its not like your real body is going to take any damage.^^^
With a Graveborn witch I got rediculous with spells like Lipstitch...
Oh and the Poppet familiar is so much fun. Being able to turn any touch spell into a ranged touch and having a more durable "spellbook" is always appreciated.
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@DRS3
Am i wrong to assume that you don't DM pathfinder APs and modules?I agree, there are also the frozen tomb (which needs some serious FAQ and/or errata since it's very vague) and agony (to use against those pesky spellcasters) that do the same thing as slumber (although there are both major hexes which means that they will be a problem much later in the campaign), in fact i am not sure it's only the hex mechanic's fault, it's partly the spell list's fault, if it wasn't so weak for a 9th level arcane caster then there might be fewer people that focused on hexes.
The problem isn't the specific hex, but that the hex mechanic itself is poorly thought out and makes for a poorer game. As was said above, unless the GM rewrites all the creatures in the game to have better will saves or replaces them with immune creatures, it is the GM's fault, not the witch class'. For some reason, it is very important to some people that it is never the fault of the witch. And even if slumber may be a problem, that is no reason to ban anything else that can replace slumber...
It received it:
FAQ: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rt3
Witch, Ice Tomb Hex: What is the range of this hex? Can it affect objects? Does the target need to drink? Can it affect a cold-immune creature? If the target succeeds at its save, is it still imprisoned? How long does it last?
Like most major hexes, the range is 60 feet.
In the second printing of Ultimate Magic, the text says, "A storm of ice and freezing wind envelops the creature...," so it only affects creatures, not objects.
The target doesn't need to eat, breathe, or drink.
The general assumption for effects is if the creature negates the damage from the effect, the creature isn't subject to additional effects from that attack (such as DR negating the damage from a poisoned weapon, which means the creature isn't subject to the poison). Therefore, a cold-immune creature takes no damage from the hex and can't be imprisoned by it.
A target that succeeds at its save takes half damage and is not imprisoned.
Under temperate conditions, the ice lasts 1 minute per witch level. In tropical environments it might only last half as long. In cold environments where ice and snow persist without melting, it might last indefinitely.
Future printings of Ultimate Magic will incorporate these clarifications.
From here.
As you can guess from my latter post, I feel it still has some hole, but most of them have been corrected.
How is the Witch's slumber hex any worse than say, an Enchantment Focused Sorcerer that dumped everything into Dominate Person? Dominate Person is even more deadly than SLumber (dominated creatures can attack his buddies), has a longer duration, and has even less weaknesses than slumber (Meta-Magic can help vs undead things). Additionally, you can ramp up the DC of Dominate to easily dominate even strong-willed creatures. And before you pull the 'Well the sorcerer needed to use resources to make his dominate good" I am just going to say that is irrelevent. We are not talking about over all strength of builds here. We are speaking about the effects on gameplay itself. Dominate Person is a SoS spell. Much like how Slumber is a SoS Su. The effect on gameplay and "Fun" will end up being the same:
GM: Ok So you run into a storm giant who look angry and is charging towards you.
Sorc: Ok I cast Dominate Person
GM: Ok What is the DC?
Sorc: 36...
GM: *Facepalm* Ok it fails..
Party: Well... that ended pretty quickly...
Well dominate person is a 5th level spell, so it does not come into play until 10th level and affects a generally smaller subset of targets than slumber. But yes, that will have a similar impact on game play and be similarly unfun for many for encounter after encounter.
Honestly, I feel like most people's problems seem to be SoS in general.... because many of the complaints of Witch's "stealing fun" I have seen ALMOST WORD FOR WORD in any thread regarding Heavens Oracles...
Yes, the spammable SoS aspect of slumber is the issue for many. This should not be a surprise, people have been saying that explicitly.
Why would a Save or suck cantrip be a problem? After all, clerics have Implosion, and nobody complains about that...
Why would a Save or suck cantrip be a problem? After all, clerics have Implosion, and nobody complains about that...
If you mean the comment about the Oracle it does the same thing as as Sleep to a large extent, and while it takes a little more effort it got a lot of complaints also. I think the problem, as pointed out by someone else, is the ease at which someone can use sleep.
A caster focused on using spells can throw out more than enough SoD/SoS spells than they need at a high enough DC to force a high failure chance, but more investment will be needed in many cases.
As for implosion specifically, it does hit point damage, and you may still be left standing unlike the 3.5 version which just killed you. With that aside clerics, unlike arcane casters don't generally use their spells in that manner.
Since it is a 9th level spell it should at least be a save for half damage in my opinion but that is another topic.
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CommandoDude,
FYI the witch in question (I am the DM) does not cackle to extend Slumber Hex (that is always a function of level). He does cackle to extend evil eye and misfortune. Yes, the witch's spamming of slumber can occasionally be a problem and the witch class in general can be a BBEG killer if the target does not have a high will save. Fortunately most high level-high value baddies tend to have high saves. Also I tend to throw Improved Iron Will on the really tough baddies (I have only had to use it once...so it has not come into play often.) One target has had Hex Ward...so that had been in play. Maybe it is because this is the 3rd campaign I have DM'ed this players witch in, but I don't find the class unfun or unbalanced, so much as boring in combat. He has done a great job of developing his character's personality in this iteration though.
It seems that every class has had it's sweet spot...they all have times where they seem overpowered.
First of all i would like to apologize for not knowing about the FAQ on ice tomb, it's only a month and a half old FAQ.
@DRS3
Am i wrong to assume that you don't DM pathfinder APs and modules?
I have, not in PFS play but I have, and they for the most part can be tweaked enough to provide a challenge. Some of theme are even really deadly for their level.
Can i ask which ones (both played and found really deadly for their level)?
How is the Witch's slumber hex any worse than say, an Enchantment Focused Sorcerer that dumped everything into Dominate Person?
Just like phantasmal killer, slumber has a lot of advantages over dominate person.
But the with the disadvantages it has the scenario you laid out would likely never take place.
Most of what I said about phantasmal killer applies here as well. It is a spell and there are a decent number of ways in the game that you can deal with spell casting either with magic items, combat tactics, or other spells. Being a spell does confer some advantages, but it brings with it a load of disadvantages as well.
The issue with your scenario is that dominate person (along with dominate monster) have casting times of one round. Along with the short range of the spell, the sorcerer would at the very least lose the spell in all likelyhood.
He could quicken the spell with the Quicken Spell (with or without Spell Perfection requires around 15th level minimum level to pull off) or use a quicken metamagic rod (75,500 gp, putting it around the same level range presuming standard treasure).
There are also a few other spells and items that making creatures immune to the mental domination as well. It is harder to get an immunity to sleep.
Also, when you mentioned being able to metamagic dominate person to affect undead, I don't think that works if we are looking at the same feat. Threnodic Spell from Ultimate Magic lets you use mind-affecting spells on undead as though they were not immune to mind-affecting spell. However, dominate person still only works on humanoids so it would not be able to affect any undead. That brings us to another weakness. dominate person only works on humanoids. Sleep works on all creatures with a very rare few here and there that might be immune to sleep.
Then we are still back to the fact that we are talking about very high levels to do any of this with dominate person. Siumber works from level 1 onwards and that is quite possibly the biggest advantage in this list.
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I'm in the Witches are Fun camp anyway, but I want to try out a new fun option.
Has anyone played the Cartomancer Witch yet? They look very exciting.
Yes, there is mechanical power, but the thematic coolness of flying around pinging cards with nasty touch spells on is very appealing. You can do riffle shuffles in bar conversations, you can take the Harrowing feat and do fortune telling, it just looks great.
It's all about Evil Eye Misfortune Cackle chuck horrible card of doom, and you have to be within 20 feet unfortunately, but que sera sera.
So, anyone played one? Are the as fun as they seem?
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Darts can be trow at up to 100', albeit with a -2 to the to hit for each range increment. The Cartomancer witch can deliver touch spells as ranged touch spells using the deadly dealer fat, so I think that he can deliver her touch spell at up to 100' with the appropriate penalties to the to hit.
As he will be using spells with a range of touch it is a noticeable bonus even keeping in account the penalties.
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So with an excellent Dex (and maybe weapon focus, etc.) and bearing in mind these are touch attacks to deliver spells, you can sensibly hope to hit at 60' or 40'?
That is good enough. Actually, that's deadly.
As an unintended consequence, it makes the Cartomancer Witch one of the best assassins in the game. Throwing the card is pretty much silent and they have the Returning property of the archetype, meaning the weapon is not left at the scene. So you can do silent, bloodless manipulation/killing while leaving no evidence.
There might even be a reason to dip 2 BAB levels to get a couple of ranged feats.
Slayer 2/Cartomancer Witch 18?
I might try a build. Any suggestions? In any case, if you are having an 'unfun' Witch with the Playing Card Assassin, you're playing the wrong sport.
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I am more interested in the magus archetype.
I admit that non standard witches can be fun.
Even standard witches can be fun, what can be unfun is,
I use sleep .. the target has failed the ST?
Yes = end of the encounter
No = dammit now I must think what I should do.
That problem can be shared by every player character that live or die by one single power. Martials suffer from that a bit, but they have enough options that they stay interesting, unless you are one trick pony build around a single kind of attack.
"I charge and pounce on the enemy." "it is a manticora and it is flying." "Unfair, you know I can't pounce a flying enemy." "Use a bow." "I don't have any." .....
(After more than two years I am still amazed by the post about the group of 8 meele martials and 1 cleric being unable to do anything against a flying wizard, but it seem that some people is playing that way.)
I am more interested in the magus archetype.
I admit that non standard witches can be fun.Even standard witches can be fun, what can be unfun is,
I use sleep .. the target has failed the ST?
Yes = end of the encounter
No = dammit now I must think what I should do.That problem can be shared by every player character that live or die by one single power. Martials suffer from that a bit, but they have enough options that they stay interesting, unless you are one trick pony build around a single kind of attack.
"I charge and pounce on the enemy." "it is a manticora and it is flying." "Unfair, you know I can't pounce a flying enemy." "Use a bow." "I don't have any." .....
(After more than two years I am still amazed by the post about the group of 8 meele martials and 1 cleric being unable to do anything against a flying wizard, but it seem that some people is playing that way.)
Um... what? Martials are the epitome of have NO options...
If an enemy is flying and they do not have a means to fly, martials are notoriously screwed... Sure they can bust out a bow but they won't be that good at it.. (unless they are an archer or Switch-hitter)...
If a Witch is worried about having nothing to do if their slumber hex fails, they are a horrible witch player...
1) Set up Evil-Eye/Misfortune Combo.
2) If slumber fails cast ANY OF THE OTHER SoS SPELLS IN YOUR SPELL LIST... YOU ARE STILL A FULL CASTER... FULL OF SoS SPELLS...
I mean, if you don't utilize your spell list, then you are a failure of a full caster and a cruddy witch player.
I am more interested in the magus archetype.
I admit that non standard witches can be fun.Even standard witches can be fun, what can be unfun is,
I use sleep .. the target has failed the ST?
Yes = end of the encounter
No = dammit now I must think what I should do.That problem can be shared by every player character that live or die by one single power. Martials suffer from that a bit, but they have enough options that they stay interesting, unless you are one trick pony build around a single kind of attack.
"I charge and pounce on the enemy." "it is a manticora and it is flying." "Unfair, you know I can't pounce a flying enemy." "Use a bow." "I don't have any." .....
(After more than two years I am still amazed by the post about the group of 8 meele martials and 1 cleric being unable to do anything against a flying wizard, but it seem that some people is playing that way.)Um... what? Martials are the epitome of have NO options...
If an enemy is flying and they do not have a means to fly, martials are notoriously screwed... Sure they can bust out a bow but they won't be that good at it.. (unless they are an archer or Switch-hitter)...
If a Witch is worried about having nothing to do if their slumber hex fails, they are a horrible witch player...
1) Set up Evil-Eye/Misfortune Combo.
2) If slumber fails cast ANY OF THE OTHER SoS SPELLS IN YOUR SPELL LIST... YOU ARE STILL A FULL CASTER... FULL OF SoS SPELLS...I mean, if you don't utilize your spell list, then you are a failure of a full caster and a cruddy witch player.
Why you could summon a pony, or dispel a spell, or make someone larger, or divine the future, or give yourself temporary hp, or stitch someone's mouth shut, or fly, or give out negative levels, or...
At low level, the duration (number of rounds equal to witch's level) limits its usefulness.Counter-counter: Cackle extends duration infinitely within 30ft. Plus, Coup de Grace is easy to achieve - takes 1 round to execute, or 2 to move then execute (and its a near guaranteed death).
We interprete the rules such that a creature that is affected by a hex must be able to hear the witch cackle for it to be effective. After all, why else does the hex' description specifically state that you must cackle out loud?
Hence, the slumber hex will only work for the duration mentioned in its description, and not be prolonged while you cackle. This makes it quite a bit more difficult to 'coup de grace' the slumbered opponent, since you have to get to him before he wakes up (and cannot be slumbered again that day).
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No, Citizen, Witches are double-plus not unfun! I do upthumb your welldoing speaking Newspeak, however!
Seriously: My Witch is my highest-level Organized Play character, and I love him (it would be nice if Organized Play weren't in an indefinite coma in my area, but that's another story).
My only issues with the Witch are the issues I have with all Familiars (they feel like at least as much of a liability as a benefit, all the more so for Witches), and that I wish their Patron granted...something more. It could be as little as a bonus feat consistent with the theme, or something a little more involved (how about an exclusive Hex for each Patron?).
The Witch's spell list is more limited because...well, it's a class new to Pathfinder, whereas the Wizard has been there since the 1970s and so comes with a pedigree. It's differently-abled - it combines Wizard, Druid, and Cleric magic in a unique, powerful, and impressive way.
When you say "the primary offensive power of the Witch is obviously its Hexes," thinking that way may be part of your problem. Start by viewing Hexes as support for the Witch's spells, not the other way around. Beyond that, a Witch's powers, like a Wizard's lie in what they have access to - and they have access to all kinds of things. Also, guess what? If a character is spectacularly powerful in a limited array of situations and a lesser light in others, that's called being a specialist, and there is nothing wrong with it.
Not trying to change the topic, but since we are talking about hexes:
How do you guys rule out as GM the effect of certain hexes, like misfortune or evil eye. Does the player get notified if his target failed or not?
Because, to me, it doesnt look like the hex has any visible effect. You cant "see" luck afterall.
Normally i dont tell my players wether their targets have succeeded or not unless the spell/ability has some visible effect (like the target falling asleep).
I believe evil eye should have some visible effect because you can notice that the target is afraid of you, acting confused or something like that. Though, to be honest, that should call for a free sense motive check.
What do you guys think?
Ain't no one got time for the whole "ONLY I, THE DM, KNOWS WHAT TRULY HAPPENED HERE, MWAHAHA" thing, especially the DM. I got enough s!** to track without adding more super secret modifiers that I'm solely responsible for remembering. I just tell players if the enemy succeeded or not unless there is a good reason not to.
Ain't no one got time for the whole "ONLY I, THE DM, KNOWS WHAT TRULY HAPPENED HERE, MWAHAHA" thing, especially the DM. I got enough s+$@ to track without adding more super secret modifiers that I'm solely responsible for remembering. I just tell players if the enemy succeeded or not unless there is a good reason not to.
Lots of options exist to modify enemy rolls. If you just declare things, this makes it extremely hard for actual value to be gained from taking them.
Ain't no one got time for the whole "ONLY I, THE DM, KNOWS WHAT TRULY HAPPENED HERE, MWAHAHA" thing, especially the DM. I got enough s+$@ to track without adding more super secret modifiers that I'm solely responsible for remembering. I just tell players if the enemy succeeded or not unless there is a good reason not to.Lots of options exist to modify enemy rolls. If you just declare things, this makes it extremely hard for actual value to be gained from taking them.
I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Could you explain more? On my side of things I look at it as I have enough things to remember as a DM without taking on the sole responsibility of knowing whether or not a PC's ability is affecting a given enemy.
It's easier to just tell the player if the enemy made or failed the save as from that point on everyone knows the effect so it is less likely to get forgotten in the sea of other modifiers. If anyone to going to remember the debuff going off it's the player who cast it, so it's a backup in case I forget as DM.
Plus telling the player if it worked or not preempts the player having to remind me what happened if the enemy failed every time it acts.
"So you know if it failed that save we rolled like 10 minutes ago it gets a minus to X roll. You know that right?" can get a bit old, but if don't tell the player then it's understandable that they have to keep bringing it up if they want to make sure it's not forgotten.
EDIT: Looking at what you said again, did you think I was saying I discard modifiers and just declare X works or doesn't work? That's not what I meant at all, quite the opposite in fact. I like to tell players if they successfully changed the enemy's modifiers via debuff or whatever so they can help me remember so it doesn't get discarded by mistake.
The immediate examples are abilities that let a player make an enemy reroll an attack, save, and so on before results are known. So, if you try for a roll and declare style, those options aren't given a chance to execute. It also requires open rolling otherwise it's a pure coin toss to the player having selected those abilities.
E: Just saw your own edit. Yes, I was thinking that. Thanks for clarifying.
Have GMed for a witch player in kingmaker for a few years now. Never had a single issue. Much easier to deal with than the druid.
Just don't run single boss encounters. You have only yourself to blame.
The immediate examples are abilities that let a player make an enemy reroll an attack, save, and so on before results are known. So, if you try for a roll and declare style, those options aren't given a chance to execute. It also requires open rolling otherwise it's a pure coin toss to the player having selected those abilities.
E: Just saw your own edit. Yes, I was thinking that. Thanks for clarifying.
I was responding to whether or not you should tell the player if his non-obvious spell effect affected the target or keep it secret from him (e.g. did the Misfortune hex stick? You can't tell by looking so should the player know?).
In regards to the concerns you brought up here, I don't think that applies to the mechanics of the Witch; Misfortune and Fortune are simply roll twice, take the better or worse with no input needed from the player.
That said, the whole idea of being able to make the enemy reroll before the results are known never made sense too much sense to me. Mechanically it just slows down the game as for it to function the DM would need to announce every d20 roll before adding modifiers to see if the player wanted to do something about it. I never met anyone who didn't just handwave that part away.
I played a witch through Dragon's Demand and had fun with it. I decided going into it that I would be primarily be buffing/debuffing during combat, and I tried to have fun with it in various ways. I especially focused on spells that I would normally ignore as any other arcane caster. Though, the fact that there were 6 PCs in our group helped this be fun too since the missing spell damage was already made up for.
Definitely have an issue with this class. Other classes have to really build to being an abomination, like the mentioned dominate person enchanter, the dazing fireball specialist or the clustered zen archer. You can be a wizard and choose not to be the (usually one trick pony) min-maxer. The witch however can slumber all day long from level 1. The 30ft range will eventually get you killed but until then you really have to try hard not to be OP one trick pony.
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Not trying to change the topic, but since we are talking about hexes:
How do you guys rule out as GM the effect of certain hexes, like misfortune or evil eye. Does the player get notified if his target failed or not?
Because, to me, it doesnt look like the hex has any visible effect. You cant "see" luck afterall.Normally i dont tell my players wether their targets have succeeded or not unless the spell/ability has some visible effect (like the target falling asleep).
I believe evil eye should have some visible effect because you can notice that the target is afraid of you, acting confused or something like that. Though, to be honest, that should call for a free sense motive check.
What do you guys think?
In general, the rules say if your target manages to resist your single target Will save ability, you know.
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You don't have to play a Slumber witch though. I purposely did not when I played one so I wouldn't fall into a rut, nor annoy the GM.
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You don't have to play a Slumber witch though. I purposely did not when I played one so I wouldn't fall into a rut, nor annoy the GM.
Indeed. If slumber is a problem, you always have the option of not taking it.
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I play as a healing patron witch with plans of going with fortune/misfortune/evil eye/cackle in a home game, and it's an absolute blast. With every other caster there's a time when you don't have anything to do. With a witch, you've always got a new target for a hex. They're really a very good caster for long-haul campaigns where rest periods are few and far between. My group enjoys getting two rolls on getting what they need to get done.
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Or, what are other people's experiences with the Witch class? From the perspective of - the player; the teammate; and the GM?
The primary offensive power of the Witch is obviously its Hexes. The class is built around it, and while it does get full-spellcasting like the Wizard, it's spell list is much more limited.
The problem I have with the Witch is that its Hexes are basically scaling, non-vancian limited, auto spell resistance penetrating, save or suck "spells." Oh, yes it does receive a variety of Hexes, but the most powerful are obviously the combat oriented ones - of which Slumber is the king.
I'm coming from the perspective of this from "the teammate" I've had a friend who's played the Witch for 3 campaigns now. And I honestly think Hexes are becoming a crutch for him at this point. His character either wipes the floor with the enemy if they don't have good will saves or sleep immunity, leaving the rest of us feeling mostly useful; OR he can't do anything because the enemy have high will saves, leaving him feeling useless. (He tends to pack mostly out of combat heal spells instead of anything else)
I always kind of liked Warding and Evil Eye more than Slumber, personally. There are plenty of things that can't be affected by sleep, and a will save totally negates it. Even if they succeed at a saving throw against Evil Eye, they still take the penalties, but for only 1 round. And unlike Slumber, you can re-apply Evil Eye to the same target over and over again. Ward is also something he can always be doing to contribute to the group's success, so if he isn't taking that, I don't know what he's doing with his other hexes. Fortune/Misfortune are also popular.
Witches are actually one of the better classes introduced in the APG; they're more balanced than the Summoner in my opinion, and they fill a role (debuffer) that wasn't really being covered by either Divine or Arcane spellcasters. Both Wizards and Clerics *have* debuffs, but they don't really focus on them. Witches are almost entirely geared towards weakening the enemy so that other people can murder them. If you're in a party with a Witch, they *should* be setting the pins up so you can knock 'em down. Perhaps you should talk with your Witch about some tactical team-ups you can try.
Has anyone even tried going with a white witch build that acts as an arm instead of an anvil? They have plenty of options for it, fortune being the stand out one for giving the barbarian twice the crit chance among other things. On top of that you can use Hex Vulnerability to use those handy hexes on a party member multiple times (nothing saying you can't.)
While I do think Slumber Hex is too powerful, I have to question why people think it's boring. Using a hex over and over is just like using a weapon over and over, except that you get to feel like a spellcaster instead of being the Wizard with a crossbow.
Yes,running around with a greatsword gets boring after a few sessions. One of the houserules we play with is combat expertice doesn't excist.
Still players tend to make 2 handed tanks for more damage, instead of a martial master mutagion warrior.Maybe it's the optimised setting a lot of people seem to play in that doesn't leave space for taking a hit to power and gaining flexability.
Back to witches, it seems a lot of pro-witches seem to think it is ok to have the gm custumize every encounter to make it witch proof. If I would run like a easthern themed game, I would personaly be kind of annoyed to have to put mindless monsters in every encounter instead of something more theamatic like a hashashin, samurai or monk.
Edit ; yup, noticed way to late I hit the reply button on the last post of page 1 of 4 ;)
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Back to witches, it seems a lot of pro-witches seem to think it is ok to have the gm custumize every encounter to make it witch proof. If I would run like a easthern themed game, I would personaly be kind of annoyed to have to put mindless monsters in every encounter instead of something more theamatic like a hashashin, samourai or monk.
... or you could give your samurai iron will and improved ~ - two feats that are perfect, thematically. Monks are pretty solid against it anyway with high wisdom and good will saves. As for hashashin, the official prestige class is terrible, the rogue is notably lame, and the ninja has a ton of options of eliminating witches before they could get their slumber hex off. Or just provide lots of little jade tokens that provide one-off protection from evil spells.
OR, if you find a particular hex too potent (and that messes with your custom setting), than remove it from your custom setting.
The point is, Slumber isn't bad, but it can certainly be incorrect for specific GMs or specific instances. This all comes down to table variance, however, and falls right into the same problems as simulacrum, wish. You'll need to employ GM adjucation for any given situation that you need to use it for the sake of your campaign and fun-factor.
Witches don't have the 15 minute day limitation of other Vancian casters, so they promote fun and more authentic stories. Yes, Slumber hex is a bit of a problem, but there's known workarounds and player boredom will promote variety. If the play experience is repetitive or unfun, the problem is with the player, who wants to win rather than participate in a team game and develop an interesting adventure tale. Save Slumber hexes for boss fights and dramatic moments.
After playing a witch without Slumber, I can say that the lack was not of great concern.
In general, the rules say if your target manages to resist your single target Will save ability, you know.
Any book name and page number so i can check it out?
In general, the rules say if your target manages to resist your single target Will save ability, you know.Any book name and page number so i can check it out?
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
This information is in the magic chapter of the Core Rule Book. I do not know exactly which page it is on.
PS: While this chapter refers to "spells" many of the rules also apply to magic in general. An example is that you must be able to have line of effect to target someone with most Supernatural abilities.
Thanks for the quote, the last line got me confused though.
What does it mean by against effect and area spells?
Like a (Su) fear effect?
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Has anyone even tried going with a white witch build that acts as an arm instead of an anvil? They have plenty of options for it, fortune being the stand out one for giving the barbarian twice the crit chance among other things. On top of that you can use Hex Vulnerability to use those handy hexes on a party member multiple times (nothing saying you can't.)
Pretty sure that's exactly what I've built and played in the home game I managed to find.
While my Fortune Hex has yet to yield the Barbarian a critical hit, it has allowed him to land a hit twice, and so effectively end the encounter sooner. That was in just one game.
Thanks for the quote, the last line got me confused though.
What does it mean by against effect and area spells?Like a (Su) fear effect?
It's specifically talking about spells, so it wouldn't mean that. I would have guessed it was a typo in the PRD, but my Core Rulebook has the exact same wording. I have no idea what 'effect spells' are supposed to be. Maybe it means secondary effects that aren't part of the initial casting, like someone making their save against a flaming sphere on a later round?
It doesnt seem like a typo, because that exact same wording is on my 3.0 players handbook.
Thanks for the quote, the last line got me confused though.
What does it mean by against effect and area spells?Like a (Su) fear effect?
Area spells are things such as Fireball(Area of Affect) that cover a large area. Effect spells are spells that produce an effect such as a ray.
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Not all effects are rays. When you look at a spell it will tell you if an effect is involved.
Flaming sphere is another example of an "Effect" spell
Effect 5-ft.-diameter sphere
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Back to witches, it seems a lot of pro-witches seem to think it is ok to have the gm custumize every encounter to make it witch proof. If I would run like a easthern themed game, I would personaly be kind of annoyed to have to put mindless monsters in every encounter instead of something more theamatic like a hashashin, samurai or monk.
Edit ; yup, noticed way to late I hit the reply button on the last post of page 1 of 4 ;)
It is not that much extra work. I personally dont go out of my way to include elves or dragons. I just don't use single encounter boss fight, but I don't use those anyway due to action economy trouncing the boss, even without a witch.
At most I might give someone Iron will or change a stat to boost their wisdom, but I don't do it for every fight.