[LPJ Design] In Defiance of Sorcery: The low-magic / no-magic campaign toolkit by Clinton Boomer


Product Discussion


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It all started with a little post by Clinton Boomer on his blog and with that a new product for LPJ Design was born. In Defiance of Sorcery: the low-magic/no-magic campaign toolkit for Pathfinder will let players play in the realm of literary traditions of sword-and-sorcery with this amazing toolkit. Learn More here.


Awesome!

I always eye his monk ninja spots. I really like those.


Sounds good. Is it going to be available in print, or just in PDF format?

Shadow Lodge

In before the unwashed masses tell you that you're enabling BADWRONGFUN.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Steve Geddes wrote:
Sounds good. Is it going to be available in print, or just in PDF format?

I am planning for In Defiance of Sorcery to be in print and PDF. The print version will be available on Amazon and Paizo, while the PDF will be availble on Paizo, D20Pfsrd.com & One Book Shelf (RPGNow and DriveThruRPG).

Kthulhu wrote:
In before the unwashed masses tell you that you're enabling BADWRONGFUN.

BADWRONGFUN is where they know me best. What did you expect when you heard Clinton Boomer was working with LPJ Design? I wonder what will happen if I announce I am working with Nick Logue on a project?


LMPjr007 wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Sounds good. Is it going to be available in print, or just in PDF format?
I am planning for In Defiance of Sorcery to be in print and PDF. The print version will be available on Amazon and Paizo, while the PDF will be availble on Paizo, D20Pfsrd.com & One Book Shelf (RPGNow and DriveThruRPG).

Great, thanks. I'll preorder a copy as soon as its available here. :)

Liberty's Edge

I couldn't quite gleen from the write up - is this a book of stories and fiction or a book of game rules, crunch and advice?


Marc Radle wrote:
I couldn't quite gleen from the write up - is this a book of stories and fiction

Maybe, but not really.

Quote:
or a book of game rules, crunch

Yes. Very much YES!

Quote:
and advice?

Yes. Hope this helps!


Oooo. Color me interested! (and also kinda amused, as I'm currently working on something at the opposite end of the spectrum...)

The more we can do to enable differing playstyles, the better, IMHO. We need to dig RPGs out of the "one true way" rut they seem to be getting into nowadays and back to creativity and table variance being king.


So here is the rough draft for the upcoming Clinton Boomer project with LPJ Design, In Defiance of Sorcery for Pathfinder RPG. So fans what do you think so far of the cover?


Looking forward to this one!

Sovereign Court

LMPjr007 wrote:
So here is the rough draft for the upcoming Clinton Boomer project with LPJ Design, In Defiance of Sorcery for Pathfinder RPG. So fans what do you think so far of the cover?

I can't get that link to work.


Ascalaphus wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
So here is the rough draft for the upcoming Clinton Boomer project with LPJ Design, In Defiance of Sorcery for Pathfinder RPG. So fans what do you think so far of the cover?
I can't get that link to work.

Try this link. Hope it works!

Sovereign Court

LMPjr007 wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
So here is the rough draft for the upcoming Clinton Boomer project with LPJ Design, In Defiance of Sorcery for Pathfinder RPG. So fans what do you think so far of the cover?
I can't get that link to work.
Try this link. Hope it works!

That looks nice!


I wanted to get a little feedback from the low / non-magic fan base: What do you want to see in this book to make it interesting and exciting? Better still, what DON'T you want to see in this project? As always, thanks for your feedback on this project.

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.

So far, Low Magic has been a pain, because there are so many cascading effects in the game system when you do it. Usually it starts with a GM with control issues restricting items. Restricting items but not (PC) spellcasting tends to just muddle the balance, not actually make the game low-magic.

So, a good look at what you need to do to spellcasters (the guys that can cast Bull's Strength) when Belts of Strength disappear; that sort of thing. And how to re-scale monsters for the different stats as well.

---

As you're probably aware, a lot of people have been trying to reduce dependency on Big Six items by
1) abolishing those items
2) giving the PCs those bonuses automatically, as a result of levels gained

However, this hasn't been entirely roses and sunshine. Different classes turn out to have different Big Six priorities; not all wizards use magic shields for example. And 2WF people need more magic weapons than a typical Summoner.

If the integrated bonuses remain of the same type, what does that do to people who got those bonuses from a non-item source, like the Protection domain (resistance to saves) or Bull's Strength-style spells? If everyone else is getting those bonuses, what do THEIR powers do?

---

Ambitious: abolishing the entire WBL concept. Currently WBL is a bit of a shackle; if a low-level PC became king and got access to kingdom-sized wealth, the items he'd be able to use would totally screw up traditional CR balance. (That's not "wrong" of the GM, but it does mean he can't use the convenient standard tools to estimate balance.)

If almost no power came from expensive equipment, that means you can give PCs nation-sized wealth without ruining WBL balance quite so easily. That's a lot of new gaming potential.

One idea I've heard is to translate WBL to a "budget" with which players can buy various bonuses, with the budget depending on level.

A side effect will be that PCs may start spending their money on hireling soldiers. Some advice on how to run games with hirelings (like a Morale system perhaps) could be useful.

---

Creatures that inflict major conditions, like negative levels. If curative magic cannot be assumed, what should the GM start doing differently? I'm sure there are non-obvious things. A list of those would be helpful.

A column on alternative curative methods for example. No longer can any neighbourhood temple cure negative levels (which means they're worth more CR). But (example) there is a place with healing springs that can cure them. (Mundane solution!) A list of such ideas might be nice.

---

I think the big thing here is to work the fine line between the cool and uncool low magic game.

1) The work of an insecure GM, who is scared of PF's high magic. He then rigidly restricts all magic item availability and harasses casters with bogus restrictions. Like punishing spellcasters with fine-grained material component bookkeeping. This tends to annoy players, while not necessarily fixing problems.

2) Fantasy, even High Fantasy, but without the uber-uber-high level of magic that PF tends towards. Most real-world mythology has decidedly more low-magic stories than PF has. Such a lower-magic game would feature fewer "anything can be fixed with a spell" and more skill-based solutions.

Your product should be very mindful of the difference between those. If it helps GMs stuck in #1 to transition to #2, I think it'll make a lot of people very happy.


Oh look, we just got in the 2nd rough draft of the cover. Frank Frazetta would be proud.

Liberty's Edge

LMPjr007 wrote:
Oh look, we just got in the 2nd rough draft of the cover. Frank Frazetta would be proud.

Unfortunately those of us who don't use Facebook can't see it ...

Is there any reason you don't just make stuff like this freely accessable to everyone?


Marc Radle wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
Oh look, we just got in the 2nd rough draft of the cover. Frank Frazetta would be proud.

Unfortunately those of us who don't use Facebook can't see it ...

Is there any reason you don't just make stuff like this freely accessable to everyone?

Your prayers have been answered...

Sovereign Court

With art like that, will you be offering a way for barbarians who wear only loincloth armor to get some AC anyways? (Without magic?)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
LMPjr007 wrote:
I wanted to get a little feedback from the low / non-magic fan base: What do you want to see in this book to make it interesting and exciting? Better still, what DON'T you want to see in this project? As always, thanks for your feedback on this project.

For me, I'd like to be able to run a game where the PCs dont find much money and find very few magic items.

I consider myself a "low magic" fan, but that's in quantity, not quality. In my perfect world, magic items are very rare but very powerful.

I'd also like some options for making magic powerful but dangerous - I like stories where wizards can do earth shattering things, but restrain themselves because of <insert plot reason here>. A mechanical way to simulate that kind of setting would be neat.


Steve Geddes wrote:
LMPjr007 wrote:
I wanted to get a little feedback from the low / non-magic fan base: What do you want to see in this book to make it interesting and exciting? Better still, what DON'T you want to see in this project? As always, thanks for your feedback on this project.

For me, I'd like to be able to run a game where the PCs dont find much money and find very few magic items.

I consider myself a "low magic" fan, but that's in quantity, not quality. In my perfect world, magic items are very rare but very powerful.

I'd also like some options for making magic powerful but dangerous - I like stories where wizards can do earth shattering things, but restrain themselves because of <insert plot reason here>. A mechanical way to simulate that kind of setting would be neat.

I agree with Mr. Geddes; I would love to see a workable concept where magic is vanishingly rare (as in, a magic item could be the focus of an entire campaign rare), so that when magic does come into play, you know that something very good or very bad is about to happen.

You would likely have to go beyond simply neutering casters as they currently stand; something mechanically distinct would have to be a part of it.

Scarab Sages

Steve Geddes wrote:
I'd also like some options for making magic powerful but dangerous - I like stories where wizards can do earth shattering things, but restrain themselves because of <insert plot reason here>. A mechanical way to simulate that kind of setting would be neat.

This is a big, gaping hole in the RPG market.

So many of the literary sources used for RPGs contain a wise mentor figure, who admits they have some arcane or divine power, but the heroes can't access it, except in the most extreme of circumstances, because to do so would;

'upset the Cosmic Balance',
'unleash powers beyond our control',
'lead to the Dark Side',
or other such dire warnings.

Then the games go on to describe a magic system, where the PCs can throw around their spells with virtually no restrictions.

Even in those games that do include drawbacks such as casting fatigue, or miscast chance, the penalties are almost no deterrent, or are trivially easy to avoid, having easy target DCs, or applying only to spells from an unpopular discipline that shafts NPCs, but is rarely taken by PCs.

Specific examples to follow, after I've been to a meeting.

Would it help if posters illustrate the problem issues in RPG systems they feel haven't managed to pull off the low-magic feel?


Color me intrigued.


Clinton Boomer's In Defiance of Sorcery cover comes MORE into focus...

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