Flagbearer, Light Shields and Free Hands

[Rory]

Questions:

1. Can a flag be attached to a pole (quarterstaff), lance, or polearm?

2. If you are holding a flag with two hands (on a pole, lance, or polearm), is that also encompassing the requirement to hold the flag with one hand for Flagbearer?

3. Does the Flagbearer feat require a flag that in turn requires a free hand to use (similar to a Magus requiring a free hand to use Spell Combat)?

The answers are muddied per past forum responses, but here is my shot at interpretation.

1. Yes. See the rules for banners. It specifically says that a banner is a flag (or banner or pennant).

2. Yes and No. Two hands are not one hand, but one hand can be interpreted as a subset of two hands. It makes more sense (my opinion) that holding a flag in two hands meets the requirements of Flagbearer.

3. No. The "free hand" verbiage was just included so a character isn't carrying it on a pole strapped to their back. It is redundant to the text of one hand requirement and muddies the water.

My reasons for asking...

My PFS Life Oracle is thinking about getting the Flagbearer feat. I plan to hold a flag in the hand that is also bearing a light shield (or buckler). I'll keep the other hand free and wear a pair of spiked gauntlets to maintain threat.

I'm also interested in an Arcane Duelist bard with the Flagbearer feat that places a flag on a quarterstaff. The bard would two weapon wield the quarterstaff. This is a bit more liberal in the questions above,and is arguably in a gray area of interpretation.

Thanks!

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Flagbearer

Prerequisites: Cha 15.

Benefit: As long as you hold your clan, house, or party’s flag, members of that allegiance within 30 feet who can see the flag (including yourself ) gain a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, and saving throws against fear and charm effects. You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus. If the standard is taken by the enemy or destroyed, this bonus becomes a penalty, affecting all creatures that the bonus previously affected for 1 hour (or until you reclaim the lost flag).

Flag

A flag is a colorful banner that bears the heraldry or symbol of a nation or organization. A character with the Flagbearer feat who bears a flag can grant additional combat bonuses to nearby allies. Carrying a flag in combat requires a free hand.

Banner

Price 1–20 gp; Weight 2 lbs.

This is a banner, flag, or pennant. You tie it to a pole, lance, or polearm. Most are woven, dyed, or painted with a pattern or symbol, such as a knight's crest or a country's flag. A simple banner with one field color and a simple insignia such as a weapon or shield costs 1 gp. A banner with two to four field colors and a complex insignia such as a lion or dragon costs 5 gp. A detailed banner with four or more field colors and a very complex insignia, such as a heraldic device with eight or more sections, costs 20 gp.

[James Risner]

Your hand isn't free if you are holding a quarterstaff in it.

[Rory]

Flagbar the Arcane Duelist

S: 14 D: 16 C: 13 I: 12 W: 8 Ch: 15 (20 pt human)

Class: Arcane Duelist Bard

Feats:
- Flagbearer (human)
- Two Weapon Fighting (1st)
- Arcane Strike (bard 1)
- Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff (3rd)
- Power Attack (5th)
- Step Up (7th)

At 1st level, Flagbar carries around a staff with a flag on it, cheering his companions to great victory. If he has to get his hands dirty, he clubs people on the head with both ends of his staff. He's not terribly accurate with it to start, but his phenomenal buffing prowess stacks up after a while.

At 5th level, Flagbar is able to crack some decently thick skulls with buffs from Flagbearer, Inspire Courage, Arcane Strike, Power Attack, and an Arcane Bond quarterstaff.

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Is this legit for PFS? If not, where is it broken and how would you fix it?

[Rory]

James Risner wrote:

Your hand isn't free if you are holding a quarterstaff in it.

Technically, your hand isn't free if you are holding anything in it. That is why I included the question #3 above relating to the "free hand" requirement.

Example: If you use a heavy shield in one hand and a flag in the other hand, you don't have a free hand either. However, you are holding the flag in one hand. Is the requirements of Flagbearer met without having a "free hand"?

[SlimGauge]

This is my take on RAI.

The "free" hand required by the flag-bearer feat is the one that will hold the flag. This "free" hand cannot do anything OTHER than hold the flag. It cannot be used to also wield a shield (buckler or light) although a buckler could be present on that arm (but not providing an AC bonus because that hand is in use being "free"). If you use that hand to attack with the flagstaff as an improvised weapon (or were using an actual weapon as a flagstaff) that hand is no longer free, it's being used to attack with.

[Cap. Darling]

Take the obligatory alchemist dip for a extra arm;)

[Rodinia]

@OP: You'd be more combat effective, with fewer feats spent, if you used a longspear instead of a quarterstaff. On paper your full-attack DPS is slightly higher with the quarterstaff, but in practice the longspear will probably serve you better.

[Rory]

SlimGauge wrote:

The "free" hand required by the flag-bearer feat is the one that will hold the flag. This "free" hand cannot do anything OTHER than hold the flag. It cannot be used to also wield a shield (buckler or light) although a buckler could be present on that arm (but not providing an AC bonus because that hand is in use being "free"). If you use that hand to attack with the flagstaff as an improvised weapon (or were using an actual weapon as a flagstaff) that hand is no longer free, it's being used to attack with.

That's one interpretation of the rules for sure. Thank you.

However, note that the feat does not require a "free hand", only that you hold it in one hand. The feat has flag rules that say a flag requires a free hand, which conflict with baseline flag rules (also posted in the OP).

Hence the dilemma.

A quarterstaff is a pole. A banner can be attached to a pole. A flag is a banner. A quarterstaff with a flag on it held in one hand (just holding the quarterstaff) therefore meets the Flagbearer feat requirements. All of this should be legit.

Even if the character can't attack (or threaten) and still retain the bonus, which makes no sense to me, but let's go with it, everyone else should be getting the bonus.

@Rodinia - Disruptive (from the Arcane Duelist archetype) doesn't work with a long spear. A long spear is a completely different development path (and consequently off topic). However, let's assume the bard did go with long spear. A flag can be attached to a polearm. A long spear is a pole arm. Therefore, does a flag on a long spear activate the Flagbearer feat?

[Cap. Darling]

I dont think hitting folks with the pole with the flag on is gonna qualify. That way the flag will be a major inconvience in the figthing and it will be most of the time rappede around someones shield or in the mud.
My interpretation is that you need one hand that is Holding the flag, not doing any thing else. And that is why i suggestet the third arm from the alchemist. But if this is not PFS talk it over with the GM.
The feat talk about a standart and a standart is not only the close but also the pole. And it says it requiers a free hand. Take a rapiere in one hand and the standart in the other and as a arcane dueligt you will be fine( since they can do somatics with the blade).

[Rory]

Cap. Darling wrote:

I dont think hitting folks with the pole with the flag on is gonna qualify. That way the flag will be a major inconvience in the figthing and it will be most of the time rappede around someones shield or in the mud.

By RAW, you can put a flag on a polearm and still fight with it. I think you agree with that, and are meaning "qualify for the Flagbearer feat". I don't want to assume that is the sticking point though, so I separated that point.

Cap. Darling wrote:

My interpretation is that you need one hand that is Holding the flag, not doing any thing else.

Can you elaborate on the basis for that interpretation? I don't get that at all.

If I attached a flag to a pole/club, and held the club in one hand, leaving the other hand completely free, I have met every requirement in the feat. Is there anything in the feat or the rules that says you can't attack with the pole/club to which you attached a flag?

Similarly, if I held a flag in the same hand as using a light shield, while having the other hand completely empty and free, is there anything in the feat or rules that say I lose the AC from the light shield when holding something in that hand?

(a third arm avoids the issue, it does not answer the questions, this is for PFS)