Please help me, I'm stupid. Druid wild-shape question.


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

Level 11 Druid.

Stats

20 str
18 dex
13 con
12 int
20 wis
11 chr

I assume the form of a Dire Cat/Big cat/lion, tiger, w/e. Just a huge cat that my buddy can ride into battle.

What are my stats? Do i use my own? Do i use the cats? Do I use the values for attack bonuses from the form or my own?

I just want to know what my attacks should look like and what my stats will look like.

If I have a weapon with valorous, can I gain the benefit of the double damage while charging as a cat?

I don't know why, but I just can't wrap my head around wildshape and what I actually get from the form I assume.

The Exchange

You get Beast Shape 3 which references Beast Shape 2 and 1...here is the text.
Basically you use your stats with adjustments listed and add in certain abilities depending on form.

Beast Shape I

School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 min./level (D)

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Beast Shape II

School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 4

This spell functions as beast shape I, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, grab, pounce, and trip.

Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.

Beast Shape III

School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 5

This spell functions as beast shape II, except that it also allows you to assume the form of a Diminutive or Huge creature of the animal type. This spell also allows you to take on the form of a Small or Medium creature of the magical beast type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: burrow 30 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 90 feet (good maneuverability), swim 90 feet, blindsense 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, constrict, ferocity, grab, jet, poison, pounce, rake, trample, trip, and web.
Diminutive animal: If the form you take is that of a Diminutive animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –4 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Huge animal: If the form you take is that of a Huge animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus.

Small magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Small magical beast, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Medium magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Medium magical beast, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, and a +4 natural armor bonus.

Dark Archive

Ok thanks. Don't know why I was over complicating it lol.


Isn't there more relevant rules text? What was quoted tells modifiers to stats for size and ability gains, but I thought there was more...? Don't they use the animal's physical stats and their own mental, gain the animal's natural armor and attacks, extraordinary abilities but not supernatural... those kinds of rules are whats needed to actually figure out what you can do with wild shape.


They only do in 3.5. Pathfinder took the nerfbat and beat the stuffings out of Wildshape (and polymorph in general.)

You get exactly what the ability says and nothing more- no swapping of stats and such.

-S


Arcwin wrote:
Isn't there more relevant rules text? What was quoted tells modifiers to stats for size and ability gains, but I thought there was more...? Don't they use the animal's physical stats and their own mental, gain the animal's natural armor and attacks, extraordinary abilities but not supernatural... those kinds of rules are whats needed to actually figure out what you can do with wild shape.

In 3.5 D&D you would use all of the animal's stats, but that was changed in Pathfinder. In Pathfinder Wild Shape works just like the Beast Shape; all you get are the listed modifiers and the listed abilities if applicable.

The only other relevant text would ge the general Polymorph sub-school rules:

PRD:
Polymorph: A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.
Creature's Original Size Str Dex Con Adjusted Size
Fine +6 –6 — Small
Diminutive +6 –4 — Small
Tiny +4 –2 — Small
Large –4 +2 –2 Medium
Huge –8 +4 –4 Medium
Gargantuan –12 +4 –6 Medium
Colossal –16 +4 –8 Medium


That would the the rules text I thought he needed, to be able to figure out what he can do with wildshape. Thanks.

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