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Greetings!
After about a week of design work I have created part 1 (of 3) of my Thornkeep mini-path.
It is designed for characters who have completed the introductory adventure and want to do something other than Rise of the Runelords.
The card text is complete and has been transferred to MSE and turned into cards. All that is left to do is add illustrations.
Contents (30 Cards):
1 Adventure Path
1 Adventure
5 Scenarios
15 Locations
3 Villains
3 Henchmen
2 Loot
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I should have the files up with imagines sometime today or tomorrow, with part two to follow within 2 weeks and part 3 to follow within 2 weeks of that.
Done!
Looks like my initial count was wrong and there are 4 henchmen rather than 3.
If anybody gets a chance to play it I'd love to hear how your group does. As a warning I believe it to be a bit more difficult than Rise of the Runelords 1 but not punishingly so.
It may just be my computer, but it looks like quite a bit of vital information hasn't made it onto the final jpegs:
Adventure Path - doesn't have a name, or list which adventures need playing (also trait is spelt wrong the second time round)
Alchemical Lab, Castle Baskraal, Crusader Road, Echowood Arms, Hall of Demons, Luminous Fountains, Misty Chamber, Sawmill, Shrine of Abraxas, Skull Basher's Den, Temple of Zog, Thornkeep Mercantile - doesn't say how to build the location deck, doesn't say how to close, and the flavour text seems to be partially missing.
Brodwyr Stonesplitter, Fungal Crawlers, Skull Basher, Snarltongue - Should you be allowed to try to close the location once you defeat?
Clearing the area, The Accursed Halls, The Forgotten Laboratory, The Three Daggers, Welcome to Thornkeep - no villain, no henchman, missing half the flavour text.
There's also 1 or 2 with slightly odd formatting of the flavour text (unusual line-breaks) although those won't have a gameplay impact.
Those should all be fixed. Thanks. It looks like MSE decided to mangle a bunch of stuff on my final export.
As a warning to anybody else working with it, leaving any carriage returns around tends to make it very unhappy.
That looks much more like it - I'll try to have a proper look at these soon...
Glad it worked this time.
Time to get working on part 2...
Okay, I just went through the full adventure. Overall, great work. You put a lot of effort here, and I'm impressed. I did make a lot of notes here, I hope they help. Sorry if I'm a bit harsh, I'm told I can come across as such, but I'm just trying to be as helpful as possible:
1. The ability to get a free explore after defeating a monster in the first scenario may make it too easy for large groups, which are desperate for exploration. Then again, the first scenarios tend to be the hardest for large groups, so it might work out.
2. The first 3 locations of the first adventure all offer variations on the same reward (everyone draws a random item, draw a random item, and draw a random weapon). These should probably be mixed up a bit. I'd consider changing one of these to no effect on close, considering you currently only have one new location where that is the case.
3. In scenario 2, you get loot that is named after 'Zog'. Despite that, the temple of Zog is only available in a 6-player game. I'd consider moving the temple up a bit in the location list. Also, why do you only have to discard a blessing to close? That's less than the Sandpoint Cathedral requires.
4. The Close effect of the Luminous Fountain may be too powerful. You're essentially getting a free mayor, which was a diplomacy 10 and banish effect. Maybe a Magic Spyglass effect on a location instead?
5. Maybe I'm overestimating it, but Pool of Scrying seems ridiculously powerful for a first Adventure loot reward. I might consider toning it down, maybe the blessing effect should require a bury? Or recharge for the first effect?
6. You are getting two card feats in the first adventure? That seems like a lot of power early on.
7. Yunar Barask is a bit underwhelming. 9 difficulty that puts a bandit in front off him with no other effects is probably weaker than ripnugget and stickfoot from scenario 1 of burnt offerings.
8. Thornkeep Mercantile is an absolutely brutal looking location. I don't know if it will need to be toned down, but I'd monitor it closely in your shoes.
9. I love Stonesplitter's power. I just felt like being positive for a change to shake things up.
10. The Scenario power on 3 daggers is going to hurt a lot. I think it's fine, but like the Mercantile, I'd keep a close eye on that in testing.
11. For the last 2 scenarios, the scenario effect requires you to make a check. I'm not sure I've seen that on a scenario before, and I'm not sure I like it, since it will really punish certain characters more than others, which I don't feel like the scenario should do (individual locations, sure, but someone shouldn't be a burden for a full scenario).
For Scenario 4, I'd consider something like trouble in sandpoint, but bigger (Before an encounter with a Goblin, roll a d6. on a 1 (or 2 maybe?) deal 1d4-1 fire damage).
For scenario 5, maybe change it to a bandit? every time you explore, recharge a card. Still makes it really hard to beat the clock, but doesn't make low wis types feel they aren't allowed to do anything.
12. You're missing a few cards, I think. I couldn't find Krenar Half-Face, Krenar's Workshop, or Unstable Cave.
13. Snarltongue is going to be really tough, with a combat and wisdom check in one encounter. However, the numbers are reasonable, and I look forward to seein ghow he works in practice.
14. Castle Baskaal is boring. For a named location, it should not just be Deeper dungeon with a reward at the end. I'd try to come up with a more unique effect for what looks like it should be a major event locale.
15. I really like Ebon Fang. He has the potential to be a really tough final challenge, despite not having overwhelming numbers.
16. Similar to the Catle earlier, Skull Basher is just an Ogre turned into a Henchman. Considering that he has a name, you should try to give him something unique (especially since there are already Ogres in the base set).
17. Skull Basher's den is the 4th location, meaning a solo player won't encounter it in Scenario 5. It sounds from the description, though, like it's a major location, so I'd consider swapping it with Crusader Road.
Thanks again for putting all this together! I hope my notes help.
Glad you enjoyed it enough to read through it and thanks for the notes.
Here are my thoughts (Only responded to things, where I thought I had something interesting to say):
1. The ability to get a free explore after defeating a monster in the first scenario may make it too easy for large groups, which are desperate for exploration. Then again, the first scenarios tend to be the hardest for large groups, so it might work out.
Note that the success condition is closing all the locations as there is no villain. Just as local heroes lets you attempt to close after acquiring an ally, I felt there needed to be a helpful mechanic.
2. The first 3 locations of the first adventure all offer variations on the same reward (everyone draws a random item, draw a random item, and draw a random weapon). These should probably be mixed up a bit. I'd consider changing one of these to no effect on close, considering you currently only have one new location where that is the case.
I think you're right here. Writing good closing effects is one of the places I felt I struggled the most.
3. In scenario 2, you get loot that is named after 'Zog'. Despite that, the temple of Zog is only available in a 6-player game. I'd consider moving the temple up a bit in the location list. Also, why do you only have to discard a blessing to close? That's less than the Sandpoint Cathedral requires.
This is one of those things that's aided by extended story time:
So, many millennia ago, there was a goblin kingdom of Zog, a coalition led by seven canny barghests that had acquired a sizable following of goblinoid scavengers and raiders.The Goblins down here in the Accursed Halls (led by Murgmo) are busy looking for the legendary Sword of Zog. They are however mostly too scared to run through the misty chamber and the 2 that did brave it were eaten by the pair of fungal crawlers (one of the more deadly encounters in the Accursed Halls) that live in the temple.
The legendary Sword of Zog happens to be a fairly normal +1 cold iron short sword, but for the purposes of the game here I choose to play up cold iron's effect on some outsiders and the fae.
6. You are getting two card feats in the first adventure? That seems like a lot of power early on.
Agreed! The rewards should be the same skill/power/card that come in the base game. I fixed the 3 Daggers Scenario (and a typo in a henchman name) to give a random weapon instead.
7. Yunar Barask is a bit underwhelming. 9 difficulty that puts a bandit in front off him with no other effects is probably weaker than ripnugget and stickfoot from scenario 1 of burnt offerings.
8. Thornkeep Mercantile is an absolutely brutal looking location. I don't know if it will need to be toned down, but I'd monitor it closely in your shoes.
This combination is on purpose, although it may be a case of following the RPG more closely than necessary. In the RPG Yunar Barask is not a particularly tough combatant, instead his power comes from all the thugs and bandits working for him. Thinking on it, I probably should have used the second half of the description of the location instead.
Beneath the main store and its warehouses lies an extensive network of tunnels, hidden storerooms, and meeting places where the Three Daggers gather to plan their crimes. There are even illicit slave pens where the Three Daggers keep captives who might be worth selling in other lands. Rumor has it that tamed monsters such as cloakers and leucrottas safeguard the Three Daggers’ most secret vaults.
12. You're missing a few cards, I think. I couldn't find Krenar Half-Face, Krenar's Workshop, or Unstable Cave.
Unstable Cave should just be the Treacherous Cave (I originally had my own location but decided that the cave from the base set is fine.)
Krenar and his workshop do appear to be missing. Checking my files I've got text and everything for them, but apparently they never got made into cards, I'll fix that tonight.
13. Snarltongue is going to be really tough, with a combat and wisdom check in one encounter. However, the numbers are reasonable, and I look forward to seeing how he works in practice.
I was a little worried about it, but figured it was the best way to deal with a goblin that turned invisible and ran away after he got beat up too much.
15. I really like Ebon Fang. He has the potential to be a really tough final challenge, despite not having overwhelming numbers.
Glad you like him. He's got a breath weapon that puts people to sleep in case you were wondering where his ability comes from. (For sticklers from the RPG world, he's not actually a troglodyte himself, although he leads a tribe of them. It seemed easier than trying to get into explaining a fairly obscure monster called a Dusk Kamadan)
The various locations in Clearing the Area aren't really any more important than any other. The Thornkeep book just has a little bit of information on sites of interest near Thornkeep, that it suggests you could let players go adventure if they need to gain more experience in between dungeon levels. That said, it means I've got free reign to make it awesome. You're probably right about the survival check being problematic, I will likely change that.
I may well run this down to the print shop after I fiddle with trying to get the most bang for my buck arranging the cards... thanks Rob.
Been saying that there is a potentially great market for 3rd PP to offer PDFs to show owners how to get another round or two of play out of their boxed sets.
Love the work on it but can't help feeling that punters will find it easier and cheaper to print professionally if these are arranged into a pdf and sized either to print at A4 or A3.
Helaman, I took a look at the MSE stuff, and it looks like I can print from the files, so either tonight or tomorrow I'll try it out. It should give me 9 card pdf sheets which should help everybody in printing.
Thanks for the response, and I'm happy to hear I was helpful. I think I just have one or two questions about your responses:
2. The first 3 locations of the first adventure all offer variations on the same reward (everyone draws a random item, draw a random item, and draw a random weapon). These should probably be mixed up a bit. I'd consider changing one of these to no effect on close, considering you currently only have one new location where that is the case.I think you're right here. Writing good closing effects is one of the places I felt I struggled the most.
Yeah, I can imagine those being tricky. I think that's one reason I suggested just a simple no-effect close. Also, you might consider a 'banish to replace' ability, something like on Shrine of Lamshtu, except for items or weapons instead of blessings.
3. In scenario 2, you get loot that is named after 'Zog'. Despite that, the temple of Zog is only available in a 6-player game. I'd consider moving the temple up a bit in the location list. Also, why do you only have to discard a blessing to close? That's less than the Sandpoint Cathedral requires.This is one of those things that's aided by extended story time:
So, many millennia ago, there was a goblin kingdom of Zog, a coalition led by seven canny barghests that had acquired a sizable following of goblinoid scavengers and raiders.
The Goblins down here in the Accursed Halls (led by Murgmo) are busy looking for the legendary Sword of Zog. They are however mostly too scared to run through the misty chamber and the 2 that did brave it were eaten by the pair of fungal crawlers (one of the more deadly encounters in the Accursed Halls) that live in the temple.The legendary Sword of Zog happens to be a fairly normal +1 cold iron short sword, but for the purposes of the game here I choose to play up cold iron's effect on some outsiders and the fae.
That's cool, but I'm not sure I understand why it means that those two locations you mentioned should be the last two locations used. It feels like it's saying 'only groups of 5 or 6 can actually find where the sword is hidden.'
Remember that the order on the card is not the order the locations will be encountered. Usually the locations at the end of the list are filler that only tangentially relates to the story. The most story relevant locations are listed first, so it most resembles the scenario in question, even with a small group.
Ha! I finally sorted out the bug that kept eating text on like half my locations.
File has been re-uploaded with missing cards and some minor changes.
If anybody knows an easy (automated) way to get them all together on a page for printing, I'm all ears.
Ha! I finally sorted out the bug that kept eating text on like half my locations.
File has been re-uploaded with missing cards and some minor changes.
If anybody knows an easy (automated) way to get them all together on a page for printing, I'm all ears.
I just throw mine in Microsoft Publisher.
Alright! I even added a blessing more thematic of the area to replace Lamashtu and made a bunch of Skull Bashers as you may now need them. (Also these 2 things gave me an excuse not to worry about splitting my images/wasting paper.)
Additionally you can find a ready to print pdf here!
Takes US Letter (8.5"x11") Be warned, it's narrow margins (.25" top/bottom and .5" left/right) but you probably shouldn't let Adobe do any scaling.
Baring anything catastrophic, I'm going to call this done and go to work, turning my notes for part 2 into cards.
Good work!
I did notice you changed scenario 4's effect, but not scenario 5. I'm curious as to your thought process there.
Ha! I finally sorted out the bug that kept eating text on like half my locations.
I keep getting this on MSE too. Mind sharing the secret?
I keep getting this on MSE too. Mind sharing the secret?Ha! I finally sorted out the bug that kept eating text on like half my locations.
There are invisible control characters for formatting purposes in the Paizo pdfs that MSE reads as end of section. I pasted all text through notepad to eliminate them.
I did notice you changed scenario 4's effect, but not scenario 5. I'm curious as to your thought process there.
I did actually change both, looks like I included the wrong version in the pdf. (It's right in the zip) Fixed now.
The henchmen for part 5 now have quite high combat checks, and when you move you're a card down for the turn, but you do get to cycle through your deck in exchange.
Looks good. Nice work.
Thanks for doing this! I might try it with my family's party of four (Lini, Valeros, Seoni, Lem).
Getting close to finishing part 2. Looks like it may take me until early next week however.
Part 2 is live!
Note that it has a lot more weirdness than RotR did at this point but it seemed appropriate for the adventures.
Beware delving into the Enigma Vaults, the Visitant is a doozy.
Also I would hold off on printing these for a few days so I can fix any bugs/typos that have snuck in.
Okay, i'll try to make notes as i see them:
1. innermost vault: I don't think shuffling your hand is really necessary :)? Also, maybe it's just because I don't know the adventure, but is it really likely you'll find an ally here? Was someone kidnapped?
2. Iklavni Koresh: She deals 1 poison damage.... to whom? you? herself? the world?!?
3. The Visitant looks tough. I don't have the cards with me to reference, but that's 3 combats, 2 of which you have to do yourself. That's going to be rough. (Maybe have beating the monster reduce the difficulty, rather than failing to increasing it?)
4. I'm not sure, but cursed treasure might be on the easy side of things. Compare to Haunts, which always give the penalty, but also always allow you to close. Also, poison dart traps are the only other barrier henchman. They are a 5 dc, but in the base set. Adventure 2 I think you can be a bit more aggressive, especially with 2 check types. I'd consider 1 higher on each check.
5. The loss penalty is rough on Tardin, but I still think he pales in comparison to the Visitant. They should probably be a bit closer to each other in power.
6. I like the deathtrap ooze. The illusory hearts have the same issue I observed with the cursed treasure, just a bit too easy, and not quite enough penalty for such a reasonable check.
7. I find it odd that the lair of the sphinx is one of the friendliest places in the game. I'm sure there's a lore reason, but I was surprised.
8. In RotR, there are exactly 2 locations with no monsters, the Temple and the Runewell. You have 2 in one scenario here, both available even in 1-player. I'd consider adding at least 1 to the stamping mill.
9. You have 10 cards at the waterworks.
Masque of the Many and Red Sky Desert have the exact same card layout, and fairly similar location and close effects. I'd consider trying to change them up a bit, unless you really want to drive home the similarity.
10. In Masque of darkness, having the waterfront effect plus 6 monsters is going to make it very difficult, but I assume that was intentional. I am curious, though, why such an unforgiving location has possibly the easiest close requirement I have ever seen.
11. I like the Jungle at location effect. Fits the flavor and I don't think I've seen it before. Also, you have 10 cards there...
12. You have 2 feat rewards, then 2 boon draw rewards, then a loot and a feat. I'd consider trying to mix up the order of the rewards, so you don't have 2 dud bonuses in a row.
13. Interesting method of making goblins a challenge in the second adventure. I'm not sure it's enough, but I like the concept.
14. I like the Magic Jar, but the Medusa Mask was decent, and this is so far and away better than Medusa Mask it is ridiculous. You might need to tone it down some, at least put a time limit on it, and always have it go back into play.
15. You have 2 locations in this set with close effect to shuffle an item into your deck. maybe have 1 recharge or put in hand?
16. The Time Lock effect could be un-fun. Keep an eye on it, and see if it's too frustrating, or if it's a good challenge.
Overall, very nice job. It looks good. I do wonder if you may have gone a bit too far out of the box (3 scenarios feature odd-ball henchman types, and the other 2 buff old-school henchman, you don't have a single traditional generic henchman). However, you've made some great designs and your work really shows.
Been a bit under the weather the last few days, am hoping to get an update by Tuesday currently.
Some thoughts from reading and testing some more:
Just like playing the RPG, the Visitant seriously kicked our ass. Toned him down a bunch. Still scary though. The Visitant is busy extracting memories from the brains of the recently slain, I figure it might have a live specimen still.
Made Magic Jar more like a weak Dominate.
Fixed number on locations, including a little less skewed on some of the Dark Menagerie locations.
Increased the difficulty of barrier henchmen and made Illusory Heart a little more painful to fail.
I finally found the inspiration to get Sanctum of a Lost Age to match the flavor I wanted better. Added a unique henchman for it, and got a mechanic to better deal with the echoes in time that cause you to fight some things multiple times.
Tweaked a few other things here and there that I got inspiration for.
Got rid of the extra Cursed Treasure from the deck and changed the vault to punish cursed treasure more instead of forcing extra encounters at random.
Is this still avalible anywhere? The links are dead... Being 3 years old and all.