Retraining to feats you didn't qualify for

[Ravingdork]

Could I retrain an old feat and switch it with something that I qualify for now, but didn't when I got the original feat?

For example, can my paladin retrain his 1st-level Improved Initiative feat for the Vital Strike feat at 6th-level even though he couldn't have taken Vital Strike as his 1st-level feat initially?

I know fighters get a free pass on this kind of thing in regards with their fighter bonus feats, but I suspect that's because their class ability specifically says so. I want to know about retraining.

[maouse]

As far as I can see, with retraining, you can retrain to new feats that you NOW qualify for (such as BAB feats). You can't get rid of the "base feat" for a feat chain is the only limit on the retraining (without getting rid of the entire chain, from top down).

[Jeff Merola]

You are correct. Retraining cares about if you qualify NOW, not when you took the original feat. This does mean you can never retrain into a feat that must be taken at first level, but that's not usually a problem.

[wraithstrike]

Yes RD you can do that.

Maouse he is retraining for feat he currently qualifies for. He is just using feat slot that he could not have used to get that feat.

[Ravingdork]

So it's a strict power increase in the system as a whole then?

[ryric]

Sort of - it does cost money to retrain, and I think it's reasonable for a GM to consider a "power increase" retraining to impact your WBL>

[Umbranus]

Yes, you can do that. And I have a concept in mind that uses this:
Cavalier/whatever multiclass who starts with boon companion and retrains this later for horse master.
That is just what you asked for.

[Criik]

Retraining also takes time (if you're in a game world that keeps track of that). You can also do that with class abilities. So I think you could retrain an alchemist discovery to one that had a higher level pre-req (e.g. retrain frost bomb for force bomb).

[Under A Bleeding Sun]

Ravingdork wrote:

So it's a strict power increase in the system as a whole then?

Yes! But I love the rule and use it in my games. I haven't noticed any terrible balance issues and it allows for some fun builds that would otherwise be impossible. I did raise the cost of retraining some based upon the characters reputation with the faction that offers retraining in that feat/class ability/etc. The cost seems REALLY low for something so useful.

But I am playing with a GM who will NOT allow retraining to something you didn't already qualify for, so I'd check with my GM.

[James Risner]

Ravingdork wrote:

So it's a strict power increase in the system as a whole then?

Deliberate.

Jason explained it in a podcast that gp cost is designed to offset the increase in power similar to how buying an item cost money and increases power.

[Ravingdork]

Did you know that the cost can decrease by as much as half, or increase by as much as double, the listed price depending on the type of settlement the characters are retraining in? Also, the time it takes to retrain is doubled if you try and train yourself without an appropriate trainer (though this does not effect the cost).

[Ravingdork]

So it should probably count against a character's starting wealth if they start a new character with impossible feat arrangements?

[rainzax]

you can get the books on amazon if the bookstore prices are too high

[Ravingdork]

???

[Under A Bleeding Sun]

Ravingdork wrote:

So it should probably count against a character's starting wealth if they start a new character with impossible feat arrangements?

Yup.