The ACG Brawler chassis is the perfect Paizo 'official' fighter fix


Homebrew and House Rules


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Finally taking a look at the list of class features on the Brawler as it was printed back in December, I noticed that it really included pretty much all of the things that the fighter threads have been asking for, including a series of abilities that allow for things like "narrative power" and the much coveted 4+ skill ranks per level and I looked at it again and realized that taking the monk out of the brawler leaves you with the perfect base of a paizo officially fixed fighter.

take a look at the list of class features as of the ACG playtest:
1st Martial maneuvers, martial training, unarmed strike
2nd Bonus feat, brawler’s flurry (Two-Weapon Fighting)
3rd Maneuver training 1
4th AC bonus +1
5th Bonus feat, brawler strike (magic)
6th Martial maneuvers (move action)
7th Maneuver training 2
8th Bonus feat, brawler’s flurry (Improved Two-Weapon Fighting)
9th AC bonus +2, brawler strike (cold iron/silver)
10th Martial maneuvers (swift action)
11th Bonus feat, maneuver training 3
12th Brawler strike (alignment), martial maneuvers (immediate action)
13th AC bonus +3, knockout 1/day
14th Bonus feat
15th Brawler’s flurry (Greater Two-Weapon Fighting), maneuver training 4
16th Awesome blow, knockout 3/day
17th Bonus feat, brawler strike (adamantine)
18th AC bonus +4
19th Maneuver training 5
20th Bonus feat, improved awesome blow

After that, let's notice the main changes from the fighter being that we lose out on the bonus feat every other level and instead only gain 7 bonus feats instead of 11. Then let's remember that we get Improved Unarmed Strike, and the Two-Weapon Fighting chain for free and that puts us back at 11 free feats, plus class features. If we make the obvious replacements of the monk things with features taken straight out of the fighter book we get something like this:

1st Martial maneuvers, martial training, Bonus Feat
2nd Bonus feat, Generic Feat that all fighters take e.g. Weapon Focus
3rd Weapon training 1
4th Armor Training 1
5th Bonus feat, brawler strike (magic)
6th Martial maneuvers (move action)
7th Weapon training 2
8th Bonus feat, Another Generic Feat that all fighters take e.g. Improved Critical
9th Armor Training 2, brawler strike (cold iron/silver)
10th Martial maneuvers (swift action)
11th Bonus feat, Weapon training 3
12th Brawler strike (alignment), martial maneuvers (immediate action)
13th Armor Training 3, something way cooler than knockout 1/day
14th Bonus feat
15th Yet another Generic Feat that pretty much all fighters take e.g. Critical Mastery, Weapon training 4
16th Awesome blow, that thing that was way cooler than knockout 3/day
17th Bonus feat, brawler strike (adamantine)
18th Armor training 4
19th Weapon training 5
20th Bonus feat, improved awesome blow

And you get pretty much the fighter that you always dreamed of. More feats than before, more skills than before, more weapons than before, Vanican feats changeable with actions mid combat to compensate for what you need, a class feature that allows you to bypass DR, and a second good save being Reflex.

Not that it's a perfect recreation of what I want, those free feats that are pre-selected may need some revising, but it works for what the player needs especially considering the Martial Maneuvers ability allowing for some really cool things in combat.

Something way cooler than knockout may include; but not limit themselves to; a spell sunder ability like the barbarian rage power, a special 'surge' like ability allowing to change dice rolls with a STR modifier or another stat, an ability like the Unbreakable Fighter's Heroic Defiance, or something else even cooler that I haven't even thought of.

ATTN:PAIZO
Here's the best part: This can all be done with a very simple archetype that doesn't even have to be considered a rewrite or errata of the fighter.

Myself, I am definitely looking at finishing a revision of this to include in my home games, and much input and discussion is encouraged.


Here is what I did to fix up the fighter, with parts taking from the Brawler.


I feel the brawler is a fix for the monk and the true fighter fix is the slayer.
More class skills, better saves, nearly as many bonus feats (counting the ranger combat style feat you can choose) but with more options.
He doesn't get heavy armor but looses nothing if he takes the feat.

Favored target instead of weapon training means you can always use the best weapon you find as opposed to now where the fighter has to specialize in weapons.


Umbranus wrote:

I feel the brawler is a fix for the monk and the true fighter fix is the slayer.

More class skills, better saves, nearly as many bonus feats (counting the ranger combat style feat you can choose) but with more options.
He doesn't get heavy armor but looses nothing if he takes the feat.

Favored target instead of weapon training means you can always use the best weapon you find as opposed to now where the fighter has to specialize in weapons.

I see the slayer as the rogue fix, or one of them (combined slayer, ninja, investigator, swashbuckler). I think the OP is on to something with the brawler. In particular fighters ought to be able to do something truly special with combat maneuvers, going above and beyond what is normally possible.


Umbranus wrote:

I feel the brawler is a fix for the monk and the true fighter fix is the slayer.

More class skills, better saves, nearly as many bonus feats (counting the ranger combat style feat you can choose) but with more options.
He doesn't get heavy armor but looses nothing if he takes the feat.

Favored target instead of weapon training means you can always use the best weapon you find as opposed to now where the fighter has to specialize in weapons.

I get the idea that the Brawler could be a fix for the fighter or the monk, but replaced with archetypes.

His "style" feats can be replaced by the archetype and he can be given a lot of different options just by changing a couple things around.

You could make one based on Weapons, Combat Maneuvers, Mobility, all by just changing around which four feats you give him, and then you could also mess with those class features just by tweaking them a little.

I would love to see a Brawler Archetype that did this for the fighter as a backdoor fix in the Advanced Class Guide, and it would take very little effort to do effectively, I wrote that post in 10 minutes, if someone were to make a day of it, you could get some nice archetypes going that do exactly what players want.

For me, the Slayer is our fixed Rogue. The only thing he needs to be flat out superior to the Rogue is more skills/level. But even 6/level and progression up to 7d6 sneak attack is still a stronger class than the rogue with all the other benefits he gets so I'm not complaining.

I really like that the book actually has the potential to fix the classes that people have been complaining about. Honestly just one archetype or two that allows for a different paladin alignment and we may have one of the best paizo releases yet.


This is exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for recently. I've been trying to come up with my own homebrew brawler class recently, so this other class, also called the brawler, is of great interest to me.

(If anyone wants to have a go at the class my friend and I put together, which undoubtedly needs work, please do. It's here Here endeth the self-promotion.)

For the sake of the nearly-completely clueless, where is a write-up of this class? I'm curious to see how things like "Awesome Blow" and "Maneuver Training" work. Thanks!


MiscellanyMan wrote:

This is exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for recently. I've been trying to come up with my own homebrew brawler class recently, so this other class, also called the brawler, is of great interest to me.

(If anyone wants to have a go at the class my friend and I put together, which undoubtedly needs work, please do. It's here Here endeth the self-promotion.)

For the sake of the nearly-completely clueless, where is a write-up of this class? I'm curious to see how things like "Awesome Blow" and "Maneuver Training" work. Thanks!

As writen, they are in the Advanced Class Guide playtest.

Next month the real book comes out so you don't have long to wait.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / The ACG Brawler chassis is the perfect Paizo 'official' fighter fix All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules