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Challenge: Highest caster level


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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So I'm trying to determine the highest caster level a PC spellcaster can achieve with a spell, assuming that no artifacts or divine beings are involved, and that the level cap is 20.

The record is 114, but only for a very, very, very specific circumstance:
Now 126, thank you Anzyr

The caster (a 20th-level caster with at least 1 tier of archmage and the wild arcana ability) uses binding, with all six assistants at 20th level and also possessing at least one tier of archmage and the wild arcana ability, and all parties involved have the following benefits:

  • Allied Spellcaster teamwork feat adds 1 (assuming all seven casters have binding and dominate monster known or prepared).
  • Gifted Adept trait (binding for the main caster, dominate monster for the assistants)
  • Spell Specialization feat adds 2 for a specific spell (either binding for the main caster or dominate monster for the assistants).
  • Orange prism ioun stone adds 1
  • Magic Tattoo (enchantment) adds 1
  • Altar of Nethys adds 1 to a specific spell (binding for the main caster, dominate monster for the assistants)
  • Wild Arcana adds 2
  • A nearby cleric or clerics with the Arcane subdomain using the Arcane Beacon domain power (who must have at least 10 total uses per day between them) add 1 by activating it every round for the 1 minute casting time.
  • Spell Perfection (binding for the main caster, dominate monster for assistants) Increases the Spell Specialization bonus by 2, the Magic Tatto bonus by 1, and the Allied Spellcaster bonus by 1.
  • The Pure Magic Aura boon from the Deific Obedience (Nethys) feat adds 1d4. However, since there are only 6 rounds (max) of this boon available per creature per day, it will take more than one creature or character with the ability to ensure it stays up for the full minute required to cast binding.
    The bead of karma adds +4

    With all these effects in place, each caster has an effective level of 38 (now 42). Multiply this by the number of assistants (6), divide by 3 (as per the binding spell description), add it to the main caster's level, and you have a final caster level of 114 (now 126).

    ------------------------------------------------

    For a less absurdly pigeonholed example, the Allied Spellcaster + orange prism ioun stone + Spell Specialization + Altar of Nethys + Pure Magic Aura + Arcane Beacon + Spell Perfection + Wild Arcana + Gifted Adept + Magic Tattoo (+ bead of karma) combination can be used with deathwine cast on a potion of cure serious wounds to achieve a caster level of 41 (now 45) for any one necromancy spell.

    -------------------------------------------------

    Without deathwine, the above combination only gets you to caster level 38 (now 42). This still permits you to perform crazy stunts, such as casting gate to conjure and control 3 hekatonkhieres (though it is debatable whether the latter could be controlled, depending on how you square the description with the rules; it seems the 24HD is the reason it's described as unable to be controlled via gate as the designers didn't intend for you to reach caster level 24).

    --------------------------------------------------

    Are there any other caster level boosting tricks that may have been overlooked?
    Thank you, Anzyr, for pointing out that the bead of karma can potentially be activated by arcane casters.


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    I don't see Bead of Karma which is an astounding +4 CL for 10 minutes. Will require UMD for non-divine spellcasters, but they should have that anyway. That's the big thing I see missing. Coven Hex for Witches allows another member of the Coven to use aid another to grant +1 CL. Blood Money+Simulacrum enough of yourself (and one actual hag) to add to the Coven and... that will win the challenge with a CL of whatever I damn well feel like (I realize it says when three hags gather they can form a coven, but I don't actually see a limit on membership). Is there a Prize?


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    Anzyr wrote:
    Is there a Prize?

    Jason Bulmahn's sweet, delicious tears.


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    Maestro bloodline sorcerer lets you treat your caster level as 1 higher whenever you cast a spell with a verbal but no somatic component.

    at 20th level, all your spells are stilled automatically.

    You can see where I'm going with this.


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    Best caster level I can think of?

    1 20th level sorcerer with accursed bloodline.

    as many 1st level accursed bloodline sorcerers as can fit within 30 foot (Note: Halflings under the effects of reduce person should be able to cram in tons. Add in a gantry so we have every square within a 30 feet sphere filled with mini sorcerers, all of which use aid another to add +1 caster level each to the main caster.

    Someone can run the math on how many reduced halflings can fit into a 30 foot sphere, but that's going to be hard to top.

    If you are yourself a 20th level halfling sorcerer of the accursed bloodline and you have the simulacrum spell, you can do this yourself by copying yourself, copying the copy, then copying that copy until your copies end up with 1 hd (so they're cheap), then going into mass production. It'll take a while, but sooner or later you'll end up with a near infinite caster level.


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    Challenge accepted! Except that Gripplis are smaller than Halflings, so they might be better. According to the ARG, a Grippli female is 1' 7", minimum. Reduced, that's 9.5" by 2.5' by 2.5' per Grippli. That's 8550 cubic inches per Grippli. A 30 ft radius sphere is about 1.95 * 10^8 cubic inches, meaning 22857 Gripplis will fit in there (rounded down, any use for 0.56676 female Grippli sorcerer?). That increases your CL by 22856, as you are the last Grippli in that sphere.


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    I remember back when the APG came out I had a idea similar to FuelDrop's, save that it was a sorcerer with leadership using a bunch of clerics with the arcane subdomain, so it was increasing the save DC. However with this ruling on speed weapons made it clear that that particular combo doesn't work (and made boots of speed much better then the speed property in all but the most intense dungeon crawls). I'm not sure if the grippli ball of doom fails on similar grounds. Now being in a literal sphere of grippli jam packed down to the cubic inch probably blocks line of sight and line of effect, which is kind of important for spellcasters. More importantly I'm a bit fuzzy on the logistics of the accursed bloodline arcana.

    accursed bloodline arcana wrote:


    Bloodline Arcana: You count as a hag for the purpose of joining a hag’s coven. The coven must contain at least one hag. In addition, whenever you are within 30 feet of another sorcerer with this bloodline or a witch with the coven hex, you can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other spellcaster’s caster level for 1 round.

    Aid another requires an attack roll against AC 10, which for a first level sorcerer is kind of difficult, and I'm not even sure who you'd make it against, unless the last sentence in aid another means that other uses of that ability don't have a chance of failure.

    Back on point however the shocking, voidfrost, and blazing robes increase the wearer's caster level by 1 for the purpose of spells with the electricity, cold, and fire descriptors respectively.

    Dark Archive

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

    Have the caster high on Aether for another +1 CL.


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    Arcturus24 wrote:
    Challenge accepted! Except that Gripplis are smaller than Halflings, so they might be better. According to the ARG, a Grippli female is 1' 7", minimum. Reduced, that's 9.5" by 2.5' by 2.5' per Grippli. That's 8550 cubic inches per Grippli. A 30 ft radius sphere is about 1.95 * 10^8 cubic inches, meaning 22857 Gripplis will fit in there (rounded down, any use for 0.56676 female Grippli sorcerer?). That increases your CL by 22856, as you are the last Grippli in that sphere.

    Even assuming an atmosphere of pure oxygen, that would result in roughly a fifth of a second (0.20844835793958) of air per Grippli, excluding those at the very outermost layer.

    Attempting to circulate air into the interior of the sphere fast enough to flush out the carbon dioxide (which in addition to being unbreathable is also actively poisonous) would require something like a permanent gust of wind. Since assuming a spherical configuration requires the (reduced) Gripplis be flying (a difficult feat in its own right), the gust of wind would blow most of them away immediately.

    Attempting to get around the air problem with iridescent spindle ioun stones increases the space taken up by each Grippli dramatically, since the stone needs space to orbit. Also, it would cost 411,426,000 gp.

    If you instead decide to have the casting take place underwater and have all casters using water breathing (and--since water breathing doesn't work in water that has no oxygen--an individual pouch of the alchemical equivalent to aquarium oxygen pellets), you would still be out 1,428,750 gp in scrolls. This is assuming 3,809 of your Grippli assistants can activate a water breathing scroll.

    Dark Archive

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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

    Ah, also, if you've got two free feats, you can take Spell Focus (Divination) and then Arithmancy. Arithmancy should add another +1 Caster Level so long as you make the Spellcraft check for it (which shouldn't be hard to do).


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    Death knell


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    Aid another bonuses stack, and a witch with the Coven hex can use Aid Another to grant +1 caster level to another Coven witch's caster level. Aid another is DC 10.

    So, how many 9th+ level witches can fit within 30' of a 20th level witch?

    I counted 96 Medium size witches (including the original caster) fitting in a 2d 30' radius spread, so that's CL 105 before using any other tricks. Also before using three dimensions. If you can get enough witches with the Coven (and, probably, Flight) hexes together in a sphere, you can get that caster level on any spell, not just Binding.

    Now, if you consider that up to 4 Tiny, 25 Diminutive, or 100 Fine creatures can fit in a single square... well, a quick search seems to indicate that the polymorphing spells available to several witch patrons only go down to Diminutive, but still, that allows theoretical maximum caster levels into the thousands if you can get enough high level witches together.


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    How to brake aid another and consequently caster level.

    Class Ability

    Coven (Ex): The witch counts as a hag for the purpose of joining a hag’s coven. The coven must contain at least one hag. In addition, whenever the witch with this hex is within 30 feet of another witch with this hex, she can use the aid another action to grant a +1 bonus to the other witch’s caster level for 1 round. This bonus applies to the witch’s spells and all of her hexes.

    Scar (Su): The witch can use her hexes on the scarred target at a range of up to 1 mile, and she is considered to have a body part from the target for the purpose of scrying and similar divination spells.

    Traits

    Helpful (Halfling): Whenever you successfully perform an aid another action, you grant your ally a +4 bonus instead of the normal +2.

    Fools for Friends: Whenever you take the aid another action to help an ally, or whenever an ally aids you in this manner, a successful check grants an additional +1 trait bonus to the check for which aid was being rendered. Additionally, as long as one of your friends is within 30 feet, you gain a +1 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.

    Magic Items

    Ring of Tactical Precision: The wearer gains a +5 competence bonus on Profession (soldier) checks, and anytime the wearer gives or receives a numeric bonus from a teamwork feat or the aid another action, that bonus increases by +1.

    Mythic

    Perfect Aid (Ex): Whenever you successfully use the aid another action, your ally also adds your tier to the aid another bonus. If you use your surge ability on the aid another roll, add the result of the surge die to this bonus as well.

    Basically for each person that aids you with these you can get from a +2 to a +6, or +9 to if using mythic. How high the aid bonus is depends on what your GM allows rules wise. I'm in fact using this in a WotR game, gm approved, as a gambit to close the world wound. I don't have trait access so I get +2 normally then use that to cast Ascension at around 300 caster level then the bonus jumps to +5 per aid.

    PS There isn't a check with coven its just a straight up standard action to aid like waking someone from sleep.

    PPS Coven + scar gives coven a range of 1 mile.


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    Onyxlion wrote:
    How to brake aid another and consequently caster level...

    Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a winner. Heck, now I am imagining a mile-diameter flying death star full of witches, with a single witch in the center looking out with a spyglass through a massive tube to the outside so she can cast spells at people at caster level +++LOTS+++.


    4 people marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    A strict RAW reading of Scar and Coven does not allow the aid another to be used at a distance of a mile.

    Helpful (halfling) does not appear to work either, as the aid bonus is not +2.

    Using the ring and Fools for Friends does create a bonus of +3 per witch.

    There is what, roughly 765 full five foot cubes in a full 30 ft. radius? A little over half that if you have the main witch grounded.

    625 diminutive witches per 5 ft. cube.

    Caster level +1,434,372 from +3 aid anothers, for a total caster level of 1,434,399, assuming a 20th level witch and an orange ioun stone, karma bead and moon circlet. An even 400 if she murders someone with death knell first.

    If by some nutty reason you manage to get MT 10 pals for this scheme, you can push that up to +6,215,625.

    (coincidentally, this increases the damage dealt by a fireball targeting the sphere to 1,418,750d6 (reflex half))


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    That's no moon!


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    In all honesty, once you break caster level 1,500 there's not much need to get better. After all, in a normal game CL 20 is considered pretty badass. Most spells don't scale that well beyond CL 20, as many damaging spells are capped at a finite number of dice.

    One exception is the Frostbite spell, which scales exponentially with caster level. At caster level 1,500 you've got 1,500 touch attacks that all deal 1d6 + 1,500 nonlethal damage and fatigue the target.

    Another is the Transformation spell, and lets face it having a BAB in the thousands, or if we're going to break things it gets into the millions! Also, at that point the duration hits the hundreds of thousands of minutes.
    At caster level 1,434,399 (the maximum calculated by Kain Darkwind) you're getting somewhere in the vicinity of 286,879 attacks per round. Add haste (which will get all your assistant casters with a single casting as well, and will likewise last weeks) and that goes up to a nice even 276,880 attacks. At that point, mundane fighters are pretty much the punchline to a joke for you, even in their own area of expertise!


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    99.6 days of haste at that CL. Plenty of time to dish out those 1,434,399 frostbites that make people detonate from non lethal damage.


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    Hmmm... Reach [3] Frostbite at CL 1,434,399. That is what you call a death star laser! Range... anything you can see. Ammunition... enough to keep firing for almost 100 days without stopping. Damage... If it is not immune to cold or nonlethal, it goes down in 1 hit.


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    The spell transformation actually does specify character level, not caster level.


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    Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

    Another point to consider is the maximum caster level that is safe from divine attention and intervention. Normally a deity is so far above mortals that they do not need stats -- but is that still true when a group of casters are able to achieve a caster level of 100+? The biblical Tower of Babel was far less of a threat to divine order than a group of casters boosting their caster levels this high would be.


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    Instead of gripplies... you should be a druid who spends all his time as a elder water elemental. Cast awaken on 1000's of half inch minnows. Get them some levels in druid. They can give you a +1 while they are swimming around inside of you. Not only do you carry them with you, but you give them cover. Of course if they were sorcerer's instead that is 1000 magic missiles coming out of you towards your enemy. =)


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    Rogar Stonebow wrote:
    Instead of gripplies... you should be a druid who spends all his time as a elder water elemental. Cast awaken on 1000's of half inch minnows. Get them some levels in druid. They can give you a +1 while they are swimming around inside of you. Not only do you carry them with you, but you give them cover. Of course if they were sorcerer's instead that is 1000 magic missiles coming out of you towards your enemy. =)

    Also how many 5 ft. Cubes are within 30 feet of a huge water elemental. Do the math with that in mind eh?


    Can only have one creature awakened at a time.

    Although this is a hilarious visual.

    Dark Archive

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    So far I see halfling swarm, grippli swarm, and awakened minnow swarm. Sooner or later these will end up in a mod.


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    Khrysaor wrote:
    Can only have one creature awakened at a time.

    According to what?

    Awaken


    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Khrysaor wrote:
    Can only have one creature awakened at a time.

    According to what?

    Awaken

    My bad. I thought when you cast it again the other one reverted and didn't just do the following.

    "If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests."


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    Hmmm...
    you know, with this kinda caster level you could create one hell of a demiplane! I mean, even with the least powerful version of the spell we're talking almost 4,000 year duration, 4303197 ten-foot squares of area, all that jazz. With greater create demiplane, this goes up to 28,687,980 10 foot squares. I think that comes in at about 54,333 square miles but I'm sure others are better with the math.

    Now for comparison, great Britain has an area of about 94,060 square miles. So each casting is netting you an area a bit over half the size of Britain, assuming your demiplane is 10 foot thick.

    With the bountiful quality, that area can be colonized or harvested as you will, and is capable of easily sustaining a population in the millions (1 person per 10 foot square, minus a bit for any cities your new nation needs. Agriculture doesn't require farmers, only gatherers. After a couple of castings, I think it's safe to say that you'll be producing much more food than your colonists could ever eat and can easily start exporting it to the prime material plane for profit. The price tag on making this permanent isn't exactly going to bust the bank either, particularly since you can trade vast quantities of food for it...


    Khrysaor wrote:
    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Khrysaor wrote:
    Can only have one creature awakened at a time.

    According to what?

    Awaken

    My bad. I thought when you cast it again the other one reverted and didn't just do the following.

    "If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests."

    No worries. I was just wondering if I missed something.


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    We got death star
    we got death star
    we got death star
    we got death star


    Say, could you promise your awakened minnow friends that you'll make them a massive plane of bountiful water in return for their assistance.


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    Khrysaor wrote:

    Can only have one creature awakened at a time.

    Although this is a hilarious visual.

    Well, yes they are still all awakened. And they will probably continue to work with you. As you are pretty much the world in which they live.


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    Minnow: "The great ocean is unhappy. We must atone for our sins. According to the tenets of the Great Ocean, we must now use magic missile that way!"
    Minnow 2-94,000: "Magic missile!!!"
    Great ocean: "OW!"


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    Sissyl wrote:

    Minnow: "The great ocean is unhappy. We must atone for our sins. According to the tenets of the Great Ocean, we must now use magic missile that way!"

    Minnow 2-94,000: "Magic missile!!!"
    Great ocean: "OW!"

    The great tenents also include sticking a head just past the great barrier of water where it meets a great wall of air. Always good to keep an active shield spell that blocks magic missile misshaps.


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    Guys, guys you are missing the best use of this. True Resurrection for people dead since Earthfall. Think the blood line is a mite dilute, ressurect some of your overwhelming ancestors and back breed a bit. Actually I am now considering Mengkare might actually do something similar to that.


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    An ioun stone costs x2 what the slotted version of an effect would be. Orange ioun stones grant a +1 untyped bonus to caster level. That puts the cost of a +1 untyped bonus to caster level at 15,000 gp. You could, conceivably, put a +1 untyped bonus to caster level on every piece of equipment that you own for +22,500 gp per item. There are 15 body slots, so 15 * 22,500 gp = 337,500 gp.

    If you added the effects via Crafting feats (such as with a wizard's bonus feats) it would cost you 168,750 gp for +15 caster level.

    That's a lot of dosh though. >_>


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Couldn't you cram even more casters into the caster-sphere by having them all be ratfolk with the swarming racial trait?


    you can cram more minnows than ratfolk due to the minnows "fine" size.


    shiiktan wrote:
    Couldn't you cram even more casters into the caster-sphere by having them all be ratfolk with the swarming racial trait?

    Good idea.

    Scarab Sages

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    To the OP, seems like your limiting it to only casters with access to the Binding spell on their list.

    Those Samsarans have the:

    "Mystic Past Life (Su) You can add spells from another spellcasting class to the spell list of your current spellcasting class. You add a number of spells equal to 1 + your spellcasting class's key ability score bonus (Wisdom for clerics, and so on). The spells must be the same type (arcane or divine) as the spellcasting class you're adding them to. For example, you could add divine power to your druid class spell list, but not to your wizard class spell list because divine power is a divine spell. These spells do not have to be spells you can cast as a 1st-level character. The number of spells granted by this ability is set at 1st level. Changes to your ability score do not change the number of spells gained. This racial trait replaces shards of the past."

    Basically means you can be a Samsaran Witch or Unlettered Arcanist and still use binding spell. Likewise, you could use that to get Death Knell (and similar spells) for your wizard.

    The Dimensional Witch archetype also has a early level ability to get +1 caster level specifically for spells with long casting times.

    Witch also has the coven hex which allows her/him to count as a hag for covens.

    Just thoughts.


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    Wail of the banshee, Dispel magic greater, and holy word all make me smile here.


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    Onyxlion wrote:

    How to brake aid another and consequently caster level.

    Magic Items

    Ring of Tactical Precision: The wearer gains a +5 competence bonus on Profession (soldier) checks, and anytime the wearer gives or receives a numeric bonus from a teamwork feat or the aid another action, that bonus increases by +1.

    Definitely necro worthy.

    11,000 to double the Coven bonus? Worth looking into.

    /cevah


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    What is the highest a single caster can achieve?


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    This thread is a beautiful thing.


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    I'll just leave this here

    (from last January...)

    :-)


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    I am now picturing using cantrips with such a coven. Create water comes to mind immediately.


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    You know, hypothetically speaking, a caster could do this by themselves, with the simulacrum. It would, at least, explain where all those witches with the Coven hex were coming from...


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    Note also that the winter hag adds simulacrum to the coven list as a spell like ability... So it wouldn't cost a bunch either.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    YES. This is now a thing that must be done...


    Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
    Adept_Woodwright wrote:
    Note also that the winter hag adds simulacrum to the coven list as a spell like ability... So it wouldn't cost a bunch either.

    The Mirror Mephit was a catastrophic mistake in 3.0/3.5. It was depressing to see that history repeats itself with the Winter Hag. Seriously, Paizo, how can you miss something like this?

    On the flip side - just make a sim of a Winter Hag (you don't need a real one, really, and by RAW you don't even need a piece of a Winter Hag to do it either). It will be much more obedient. Then your coven can proceed to blast out millions more sims.

    Anyone want to run a calculation of how long such covens would take to overrun the world with sims of everyone and everything? (Which in turn makes Winter Hags almost a house rules banned critter, much like the Mirror Mephit in mine - "they never existed to begin with and no, I don't care if they are listed as a monster").

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