I was thinking of allowing the Wish and Limited Wish spells to retrain a character instantly, akin to Jafar's wish to "be the most powerful sorcerer in the world!"
Essentially, one wish (or limited wish) would allow you to retrain anything you wanted, instantly and without a trainer, up to a cost equaling the material component of the spell. The wisher would still need to abide by all other rules and restrictions for retaining.
What do you think? What kind of abuses might I expect out of this ruling?
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Seems legitimate to me. I mean, you're burning a 9th level spell to save time...that's pretty reasonable.
And you should be prepared for people to basically completely rebuild their characters with two Wishes at most. Since retraining all 17 levels as a 17th level character costs only a bit over 20k, and just about everything else is cheaper. Their base Ability Scores stay the same (though they can reallocate those points from leveling), but they could pretty casually change everything else.
Honestly, I'd just let them rebuild with one wish regardless of cost. I can't think of a good reason not to.
Seems fine to me. You're still spending 25000gp on it a pop.
Can you really consider an infinite wish exploit to be a problem with my ruling over the infinite wishes themselves?
This is far from the most spectacular or difficult thing that a Wish spell, or a high level caster in general, can do. Whether the Wishes are infinite or not is beside the point.
That's almost like a wicked version of Polymorph.
In one standard action, suddenly the sorcerer you're dealing with has a completely different selection of spells, feats, etc. Awesome!
I suppose one could also add a provision to the wish. "I wish to be be a formidable warrior for the next 24 hours."
I actually thought of this a few years ago when we were doing RotRl. Id made several poor choices on my character and wanted a -reset as we went into the final destination. something along the lines of "I wish my skills and talents to be reconstituted in order to better to fight our enemy" If i had actually made the wish thought hat was in hind sight horrible wording as i might find out the local baker hates my guts... anyhow nothing wrong with this altho it falls under the "stuff can go wrong" portion of wishes i think.
I was thinking of allowing the Wish and Limited Wish spells to retrain a character instantly, akin to Jafar's wish to "be the most powerful sorcerer in the world!"
Essentially, one wish (or limited wish) would allow you to retrain anything you wanted, instantly and without a trainer, up to a cost equaling the material component of the spell. The wisher would still need to abide by all other rules and restrictions for retaining.
What do you think? What kind of abuses might I expect out of this ruling?
It is totally broken. The abuse is Schrödingers wizard becoming reality, since he now can retrain every feat, spell, skill etc. instantly and rebuild his character to adjust to every challenge ahead. Or just rebuild his mates as he wishes.
However in a roleplay oriented group this abuse shouldn't happen. Since changing who you are all the time would be weird.
It is totally broken. The abuse is Schrödingers wizard becoming reality, since he now can retrain every feat, spell, skill etc. instantly and rebuild his character to adjust to every challenge ahead.
Sure, for 25,000 gp every time.
My personal hesitation to concur with what sounds legitimate in terms of resources, etc., is that this Wish assumes the character has access to a lot of knowledge that ordinarily wouldn't be available to him.
Here's the thing wording of wishes is important. Wishes are clear it does specific things and says it can go beyond those specific things but gives the dm permission to screw with things.
I think the retraining wish not abused is pretty nifty. As I mentioned earlier in RotRl I'd /really/ screwed my char up and thought something to re-organize my feats before we went up the mountain. Only I thought of it after :p so was too late.
As a quick fix to a lot of poor choices its fine. As a quick fix to a player with a lot of rules fu... it has risks.
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What is the logic behind this?
Wishes power is capped at rewinding one six second slice of time. How would it be able to undo months or even years of learned experiences and redo them in another way?
I think this is well beyond the examples of power the wish spell shows. After all if you can totally alter ones training and experience with with what is to stop you from wishing for levels or XP? You have established a baseline with the retraining which make that leap inevitable.
And RD, have you ever considered going into Contract Law as a profession?
I see what you're saying. Blurs the line between character and player knowledge a bit too much?
That, and what the character could have available to him, period.
Consider what Wish can do for you:
* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
* Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
* Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
* Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
The OP is basically saying he wants to learn any number of spell that his character may not have ever possessed. A sorcerer may have innate access to all spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer list, but what about a wizard? A certain amount of research is stated as being required when a character of that class wants to learn new spells. I guess a GM could very well wave their hands and say, "You get whatever new spells you want within the numbers allowed by your current level from Generic Wizard Academy Four, which happens to be within the walls of the city you're resting and recuperating at", but should that really be a straightforward usage of a Wish?
I think it falls under the "more dangerous" usage:
You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)
Especially when you start getting into abilities, skills, feats, and spells outside the class you started with.
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Seems like Wish would allow 25,000 gp value in retraining, and a limited wish would allow 1,500 gp worth. Legit enough for me. Endless limited wishes in an item aligned to the character's alignment is about 170k. So this is not really cost effective unless you plan on using it 110 times. (Wish is about 2.74m to make something unlimited uses, so, again, about 110 times to balance out the cost).
And as long as he doesn't retrain away too many levels of Sorceror, he can switch back after the fight (for another 25,0000 gp).
OK, I think I see one issue; if you can wish to retrain allies, you can wish to retrain enemies. I don't want enemy magicians messing with my abilities. They'll give me nine Skill Focus feats!
Or, under 3.5, there is the Chameleon. They change every day.
/cevah
I would stay away from things like training extra hit points and this would in my game be a wish you made then you remade your character and then the GM decided how the wish Worked out. Just like most wishes.
To take it from a roleplaying perspective, i think you only can do it once depending on the wording of the wish.
"I want to be the most powerful X" and thus the players choice is what is considered "best" by the cosmos, and re-wishing on top of that might cause a heavy back-lash as your characters body cant handle it anymore and the grim details is up to the DM. ( Note that wish actually mentions this in its description )
From a mechanical stand-point "Wish" is just a wildcard and is mostly for the roleplaying aspect and as the ultimate "i wish i had such a spell." I personally would allow retraining and "re-optimizing" with a single wish, but if my players took that goodwill and used it more than once without a good reason and try to argue by RAW...well by RAW it says that its up to the DM discresion and by the planes i will.