Acceptable level for a GM-pregen

[Talon Stormwarden]

This week we'll be missing one player from our MM home campaign, so we're going to be doing a PFS scenario, Shipyard Rats, a season 1 1-7 tier.

It looks like we're going to have a total of 3 2nd level PCs. Is it legal to add a 4th level pregen, for an APL of 2.5, playing down to 1-2 subtier? I'm uncertain if a 2.5 APL rounds to 2 or 3.

[TriOmegaZero]

If the APL rounds to .5, the party can choose which way it rounds.

As far as I know, there is nothing saying you can't use a 4th level pregen in a 1-2 subtler party. I usually try to make sure the pregen is in-subtier myself.

[Fromper]

Regarding that specific adventure: Be sure the GM sticks to the tactics as written in the adventure. There's one combat that's harder than it should be at sub-tier 1-2, especially if the GM looks at the enemy's stats and uses best strategy. The written tactics aren't the best tactics for that enemy, and make it easier for the PCs to beat.

[The Great Rinaldo!]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

If the APL rounds to .5, the party can choose which way it rounds.

I am pretty sure that is not true.

x.5 by definition rounds up to the next highest integer. So 2.5 rounds to 3, 5.5 rounds to 6, etc.

If a party ends up rounding to a between-tier point AND no one in the party is in the upper tier, THEN the party can choose to play down instead of up. So in a 1-5 scenario, a party of 2,2,2,3,3,3 is APL 2.5, rounds to 3; 6 players would normally play up, but since no one is level 4, they can choose to play down instead.

[TOZ]

Tony Lindman wrote:

I am pretty sure that is not true.

BE ENLIGHTENED, BROTHER!

Michael Brock wrote:

If you are exactly at 0.5, just let the group decide which way they wish to go.

[The Fox]

There is no "definition" for which way to round x.5 (or any other fractions, for that matter). There are conventions. One convention is to round up at x.5 or higher, and round down below that. This is the convention most of us were taught in school. But there are many other equally good—and in certain applications, better—conventions.

The convention used for determining sub tiers, as specified by Mike, is that the players choose.

Edit: ninja'd

[Dylos]

Regardless of rounding, the pregen must be in tier.

[TriOmegaZero]

Dylos wrote:

Regardless of rounding, the pregen must be in tier.

Can you point me to that rule? I'm not finding it in the guide.

[Dylos]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Dylos wrote:

Regardless of rounding, the pregen must be in tier.

Can you point me to that rule? I'm not finding it in the guide.

Oddly neither can I, but I swear it was a rule, perhaps I am mistaken.

[TriOmegaZero]

One could interpret the phrase 'level-appropriate pregenerated characters' to refer to the subtier, but could also just apply to the overall tier. Probably could use some tightening up to show intent.

[Dylos]

In any case, I am not sure how I feel about the pregen being the highest level at the table, and a GM pregen should never hog the spotlight.

[TriOmegaZero]

Unless it is Kyra being a healbot and keeping people alive. :)

[Dylos]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Unless it is Kyra being a healbot and keeping people alive. :)

Rarely do people interpret healing as hogging the spotlight, as most players have the mindset of "if I kill things I am the star"

[TriOmegaZero]

Hence why my bard and oracle can be seen as useless despite being a lynchpin of the party. ;)

[DesolateHarmony]

Life Oracle for the wi... uh, stay in back and keep others up long enough to deal with the situation!

[Jason Wu]

The perception can change if the GM can't seem to damage any party members for longer than a round.

Not that I've... necessarily... done that. With a life oracle/healadin build. Oh no. <.< >.>

"Okay, you take this, this, and this damage"
"Everybody heal back up to full"
"!&@#?!!"

-j

[Sammy T]

Life Oracles are primo debuffers and summoners. While they're great at healing, that should rarely be their only function.

[The Great Rinaldo!]

TOZ wrote:

Tony Lindman wrote:

I am pretty sure that is not true.

BE ENLIGHTENED, BROTHER!

Michael Brock wrote:

If you are exactly at 0.5, just let the group decide which way they wish to go.

Hm. That was written as a response to a conversation about the old way of determining play up/down for between tiers. I'm not sure that it is intended to still be in effect. That said, in the absence of a new ruling, I'd have to accept that for now.

Has anyone seen a more recent confirmation of that post? If not, maybe Mike will wander through here and let us know.

[LazarX]

Talon Stormwarden wrote:

This week we'll be missing one player from our MM home campaign, so we're going to be doing a PFS scenario, Shipyard Rats, a season 1 1-7 tier.

It looks like we're going to have a total of 3 2nd level PCs. Is it legal to add a 4th level pregen, for an APL of 2.5, playing down to 1-2 subtier? I'm uncertain if a 2.5 APL rounds to 2 or 3.

Decide what tier the session is playing at first. if it's playing at Tier 1-2 use the 1st level pre-gen. The only time a 4th level pre-gen is used is if the group is playing at Tier 3-4.

[Yiroep]

TriOmegaZero wrote:

Hence why my bard and oracle can be seen as useless despite being a lynchpin of the party. ;)

Yup, can't agree more. Having 7 oracles and 2 bards myself, and a sensei monk, I can say I enjoy that role a little too much...

The joy you get from the "Muhahaha! My party efficiency has increased by 200%!" is totally worth it.