Goblinworks Game Designer
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As I said elsewhere, they also said we'd have months to get to that number. Now we don't. If we don't have dozens of members on day one of EE, we will not be able to hold any towers, thus shutting down our settlement's ability to support training on day one of EE.This is going to seriously disadvantage the smaller groups. Especially if they have to hold their surrounding towers. Some groups will be hard-pressed to put a person in each immediate hex if even a single player or two aren't online.They said small groups were never intended to hold a settlement. They mentioned in a post mentioning hundreds. This definitely will play into that.
I'm still not sure I'm making this clear...
You and your settlement will not be able to hold ANY towers (well, your company can). You will NEED to ally with OTHER companies to hold towers. Only companies can hold towers. Everyone will need allies. A small company will certainly be able to hold a tower - and if they are worried about defense they would be wise not to pledge it to a settlement with a huge PvP window unless that settlement can offer defensive support.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PvP has always been a bit of a concern for me(and a few others id imagine), I heard enough reassurances from folks here that the rep system and other things were being introduced to curtail toxic behaviors.. Now a month or so before EE you guys decide 30% of the map should be a free for all PvP reputation free murder fest?
I see why the towers were added, and I think it is a great idea. However, I also understand Tuffon's concern. I think what this means is that if you're a PVE-er, your game experience in EE is going to be frustrating. I fear this may result in some of those who are not PvP-inclined to bail out of PFO before OE.
I say this because, unless you're with some mega-Settlement with oodles of players logged on all hours of the day, or unless you play at hours when very few others are on, or unless you're in some remote part of the EE map, you're likely going to get PvP'ed a lot. Settlements won't be big enough in EE (in my opinion) for there to be enough PvP-ers to not only take and defend Towers but the then also escort and protect PVE-ers.
I hope this won't discourage the PVE-ers. Perhaps if there were some way to perhaps throw those PVE-ers a bone, say no PvP at all in the monster home hexes during EE, that may be helpful. I'm not sure that is something that is practicable, however.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It will if the number of bodies in the tower determine if you are in control of a tower... and if you are then the area is a reputation free for murder zone..
One person standing there is enough to contest it, if no one is defending it then it's gonna be yours. While bodies will speed it up you need to have them there, have them there during the open PVP window, and be able to overcome the attackers/defenders who will primarily be trained mains.
It's only rep free if the PVP window is open...which is one of the reasons behind the windows.
If they somehow made it so having 100 people just walk in instantly captured the tower, then yes I see a problem. But given the systems they've been discussing I highly doubt that's going to happen. (Not that those 100 aren't still going to take it away from say 10 people defending it)
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Goblin Squad Member
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As I said elsewhere, they also said we'd have months to get to that number. Now we don't. If we don't have dozens of members on day one of EE, we will not be able to hold any towers, thus shutting down our settlement's ability to support training on day one of EE.This is going to seriously disadvantage the smaller groups. Especially if they have to hold their surrounding towers. Some groups will be hard-pressed to put a person in each immediate hex if even a single player or two aren't online.They said small groups were never intended to hold a settlement. They mentioned in a post mentioning hundreds. This definitely will play into that.
Keep in mind, only 33 settlements will be in game day 1 of EE. There are 155 (ATM) companies out there vying for one of those slots. Even though several of those 155 are under 5 members, still, if you gathered them up into 1 settlement, you would have several decent sized companies. Yes, companies like TEO and PAX have the members to hold several towers, but I think that people are blowing this out of proportion.
Taking the 6 towers around your settlement is designed to be "easy" as it is right there and minimal travel is required. But the further out you go, the more likely you are the NOT be able to hold the tower, even if you have the numbers to do so. Also, since it is by company and not settlement, you could just gather 10 companies into your 1 settlement, each hold 1 tower, and that settlement has 10 towers to power their training facilities. Even if you only have like 5 members in each company, there is still a fair amount to hold 1 tower for the time your window is open.
Last thing to remember, any persons sent out to attack and claim another tower is 1 less person at home defending. Because of this, UNC might send people out to raid a tower, but then someone else could raid ours and we trade rather than gain/loss a tower.
A few questions, most have already been asked above but I haven't seen an answer yet so I will echo them (Though I understand much is TBD right now, but any info would be great. Even if is it speculative like the very early blogs):
More info concerning the towers' effect on training. How does gaining another tower or losing one affect training in the settlement.
What exactly do you mean by "can train 2 class/roles but support them all." Does that mean we can train fighters and rogues, but only have spells for sale without the training to use them?
Great blog and I am glad to see basic territorial combat being done so early in EE. Kudos!!
Lastly, just like to say:
I CALLED IT. I was the first to post my speculation of settlement warfare coming earlier than expected. WOOT WOOT LOL
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Goblin Squad Member
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Over the years I've come to a point where I have zero faith in game developers. I find it easier to be pessimistic beforehand instead of disappointed after.That's fine if it keeps you emotionally balanced, but projecting onto other people and devs via the forum is not a good way to express that. Would you like it if I walked around behind you all day implying you're a liar or a failure in everything you do? That's kinda what the forums are like to Devs. Criticizing is fine, but offer up an alternative or extrapolate on why and what. Implying that they are copping out and will never follow through doesn't really accomplish anything.
Sorry if this is a little targeted, I've been frustrated a bit by the amount of people who combat every idea by just saying 'No' or 'That will never work you idiots' around here.
Right. I appreciate that you're heaping your frustration on me. It's super helpful to the thread. Thanks.
You following me around calling me a liar or a failure is nothing like anything I've said. If you want to make a comparison, do it better. At no point did I say anything like "that will never work you idiots". I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I voiced that I had a concern. Stated what that concern was.
Could I have worded my concerns a little better? Sure. So here goes:
I have major concerns about using the character zerg method as a capture mechanic. It leads to mindless wave-style PvP. I also have concerns that this system may stay in place. Not because GW is a bunch of liars, or anything blown out of proportion like that. Simply because during development cycles of games, plans tend to change. A lot. I don't want there to be a change of plans where this system stays in place long term.
Also, check your PMs please.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This just means we will spend the majority of our time fighting other PvP'ers instead of random folks. This is a good thing for the PvP-averse.
It promotes meaningful PvP in concentrated areas at specific times, which should be a huge boon for people looking to avoid PvP.
I can see the point you both are making, and I hope you are both are correct. I'm not sure it will be easy to convince the PVE player that that is how it wil play out, though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tuffon
Last I heard XP gain is limited to one character at a time unless you have Destinies Twin which probably won't exist at the start of EE. So spamming alts everywhere won't really accomplish much.
You are utterly wrong.: 200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.
day 1 log:
"Window is opening in settlement "F": All available members log into your NW Quadrant alt now and head for hex -xx.-yy" (crush all opposition in the area)
Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "AB": All available members log into your alt in SE Quadrant now and head for hex xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)
Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "B": All available members log into your alt in NE Quadrant now and head for hex -xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)
Put a large number of allies in two or three settlements, and the problem just gets worse, as they can pick matching or conflicting PvP windows and use all members to defend both settlements.
End result after the first week or two, a bunch of small settlements with no towers and all towers divided up among two or three groups. Nobody can train anything of note in any settlement that isn't part of a large alliance or an NPC settlement
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh heavens I hope it does. I've been working for 12 months on a kookoobananas complex settlement warfare system. I'd be very put out if it doenst make it in ;)Right, I know that this system is supposed to get more complex later on. I just worry that it... won't.@Doggan
I feel that characterslots will be scarce at the start of EE, or that there is some cost attached to using more then 1. Also, there are no FTP accounts yet, each account that can participate in EE will cost someone a hunderd dollars.
I certainly hope so too. And I'm glad to hear there's actually something complex that has been in the works for some time. The system that was just announced didn't do much to reassure me about PvP and Settlement Warfare in any way, so I guess I'll just have to hold out until more info is released regarding this "kookoobananas" system you've got planned.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, and even worse: this 30% free murder zone actually rewards the otherwise "low-reputation" behaviour, granting long-term bonuses (currently of unknown value). And after such game mechanics enters the field, killerfolks will surely know, that they can urge GW to remove "hindering" reputation and probably alignment mechanics, if the say they are "bored", thus effectively robbing the game content from people who are NOT bored when they do not PvP. It happens at start? It sure can happen at any time.You have to basically follow the anaconda snake path to get from one end of the map to the other to ensure you don’t enter a reputation free kill zone…
PvP has always been a bit of a concern for me(and a few others id imagine), I heard enough reassurances from folks here that the rep system and other things were being introduced to curtail toxic behaviors.. Now a month or so before EE you guys decide 30% of the map should be a free for all PvP reputation free murder fest? What gives…
I'm not sure I'm following you here... Can you restate the issue?
Only PvP during the window is rewarded - sanctioned PvP. Sanctioned PvP is NEVER low-reputation behavior - its the core of PFO (feuds, warfare, sieges, faction combat, etc).
The settlements do not actually get a choice initially whether to engage in war - they are automatically engaged into war with everybody from the beginning, even if the general settlement style is "specialized raiders of the nearby dungeon" or "dwarven crafting guild". Every settlement is completely surrounded with towers, and, depending on the size and placing of the PvP window, the situation can just develop into "every commoner going out of the city to harvest is automatically a viable targeet for anyone except for people from the same settlements". We cannot say in advance, how many wars a settlement would wage (it depends on people playstyle, alignment etc.), but with alignment and reputation systems as they have been presented were showing way more optimistic pattern: being lawful and investing into resource management would increase DI, while chaotic warfare would likely reduce it (wasn't there a mechanics where starting a war actually cost soem DI?). The system proposed today rewards quite the *opposite*: do not harvest, craft, or control monster escalations to increase DI - do things that were once supposed to decrease it! Wage war on everybody, and if you PVP more and more efficiently, you get... the most advanced crafting guild in the area. Or whatever you asked as settlement development priority (so could be crafting guild).
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am a PvE player. Reading the blog and watching the video was all I needed to realize this should make EE better. Before, the PvP players had nothing to do other than run around a "slaughter" folks when EE started. There weren't any meaningful reasons for PvP implemented yet.
I 100% agree with you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My thoughts on the "character zerg" tactic to capture towers. You might take a tower or 2, or several towers, but there will come a point where you over extend and either people just cap them back (because at this point you will be a 24 open window) or you are so spread out keeping what you took that you can't expand any more.
Remember that this is a placeholder mechanic that is not intended to make it to OE. I don't think F2P accounts will be in before OE so EVERYONE in EE will be $100+ accounts, meaning to zerg, will cost a lot of money. Even TEO with their massive 200 people could prolly only hold like 10 towers effectively.
I see towers changing hands fairly often, at least until people learn what they can hold with their numbers. If they grow members, but taking in another company or 2, then they take more towers. If they lose companies, they lose towers. That is how I see it going within EE.
Also, addressing the thing people are asking about with PVEers:
1) There will be a window where the towers are PVP open, I am sure GW will implement so sort of message or indicator so people are aware and you can leave and go around to avoid it. Mind you EVERY MAJOR ROAD IS SAFE as there are no towers on them. Might be a longer path, but will be safer. Not to mention the NPC guards on there.
2) There will still be PVE content. Escalations, harvesting/crafting, Emerald Spire (at least once it gets implemented and such) so avoid the tower hexes and go mine some skymetal. Besides, most the PVPers will be in the tower hexes so you should be saferish in the other hexes. Also, we will need gear and such from you PVEers to replace what we lose claiming towers for our settlements.
Basically, it is my opinion that too many people are reading too much into this, or not looking at the big picture. Just my thoughts, not attempting to be hostile to anyone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Taking the 6 towers around your settlement is designed to be "easy" as it is right there and minimal travel is required. But the further out you go, the more likely you are the NOT be able to hold the tower, even if you have the numbers to do so. Also, since it is by company and not settlement, you could just gather 10 companies into your 1 settlement, each hold 1 tower, and that settlement has 10 towers to power their training facilities. Even if you only have like 5 members in each company, there is still a fair amount to hold 1 tower for the time your window is open.
Not all cases are those hexes easy. The most pathological case is -08.06 which is next to T, but because of elevation is 10 travel hexes away (including 3 only 1 travel hex from W (Golgotha). What are the odds that W will take that before T even gets there?
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Goblin Squad Member
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..."can train 2 class/roles but support them all."
I took it to tie back to what we'd been told about the difference between being able to "maintain" training already bought, so abilities could still be used, vs being able to sell those abilities in the first place. If you're training Fighters and Rogues at your Settlement, Mages won't be able to buy new abilities at your Settlement, but your Settlement's Mages, after training elsewhere, can use the spells they've bought.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I have major concerns about using the character zerg method as a capture mechanic. It leads to mindless wave-style PvP.
It actually sounds a lot like the process for Capturing the Hall when attacking a Settlement. I'm not seeing why holding a Tower for a duration is significantly different than holding a Hall for a duration. Or why one would qualify as a "zerg" method and the other would not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just remembered another question.
Once a tower is claimed (I understand a "open" tower is FFA for everyone not in the same company), will members of the same SETTLEMENT be able to "defend" a tower without taking it from a fellow company? Meaning company A and B are members of settlement C. Company A owns a tower and it comes under attack. Can members of company B go defend it without claiming the tower for them selves, taking it away from company A?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not all cases are those hexes easy. The most pathological case is -08.06 which is next to T, but because of elevation is 10 travel hexes away (including 3 only 1 travel hex from W (Golgotha). What are the odds that W will take that before T even gets there?
Shh! Don't talk about that hex!
Don't look here, whoever ends up in T, nothing to see!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Based on current land rush numbers, the average settlement would have about 35 members. Based on tower count, the average settlement will have about 9 towers. So, on average 4 players per tower controlled.
Of course, averages don't tell us much; there will be significant variance both up and down. But if I were in a 7-player settlement right now I'd be looking for someone to merge with.
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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The settlements do not actually get a choice initially whether to engage in war - they are automatically engaged into war with everybody from the beginning, even if the general settlement style is "specialized raiders of the nearby dungeon" or "dwarven crafting guild". Every settlement is completely surrounded with towers, and, depending on the size and placing of the PvP window, the situation can just develop into "every commoner going out of the city to harvest is automatically a viable targeet for anyone except for people from the same settlements". We cannot say in advance, how many wars a settlement would wage (it depends on people playstyle, alignment etc.), but with...Yes, and even worse: this 30% free murder zone actually rewards the otherwise "low-reputation" behaviour, granting long-term bonuses (currently of unknown value). And after such game mechanics enters the field, killerfolks will surely know, that they can urge GW to remove "hindering" reputation and probably alignment mechanics, if the say they are "bored", thus effectively robbing the game content from people who are NOT bored when they do not PvP. It happens at start? It sure can happen at any time.You have to basically follow the anaconda snake path to get from one end of the map to the other to ensure you don’t enter a reputation free kill zone…
PvP has always been a bit of a concern for me(and a few others id imagine), I heard enough reassurances from folks here that the rep system and other things were being introduced to curtail toxic behaviors.. Now a month or so before EE you guys decide 30% of the map should be a free for all PvP reputation free murder fest? What gives…
I'm not sure I'm following you here... Can you restate the issue?
Only PvP during the window is rewarded - sanctioned PvP. Sanctioned PvP is NEVER low-reputation behavior - its the core of PFO (feuds, warfare, sieges, faction combat, etc).
I think you concern might be based on a slight misinterpretation of the full settlement system.
Settlements (in the full system) cannot maintain their structures without upkeep. Upkeep requires the ownership of multiple hexes. Thus, a settlement cannot survive without capturing and holding land around them. Just like with War of the Towers. That has always been the case - settlement warfare and land control is the central system to drive PvP in PFO.
Now I should point out that 'every commoner is a viable target for PvP' ONLY when the PvP window is open for that hex. This commoner will know when the PvP window is open and can therefore choose to visit another hex. If a player is not interested in PvP they can make their home in one of the NPC settlements and visit any hex they want that is either not a tower hex, or a tower hex whose PvP window is not currently open.
Is that clearer?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not all cases are those hexes easy. The most pathological case is -08.06 which is next to T, but because of elevation is 10 travel hexes away (including 3 only 1 travel hex from W (Golgotha). What are the odds that W will take that before T even gets there?Taking the 6 towers around your settlement is designed to be "easy" as it is right there and minimal travel is required. But the further out you go, the more likely you are the NOT be able to hold the tower, even if you have the numbers to do so. Also, since it is by company and not settlement, you could just gather 10 companies into your 1 settlement, each hold 1 tower, and that settlement has 10 towers to power their training facilities. Even if you only have like 5 members in each company, there is still a fair amount to hold 1 tower for the time your window is open.
And that is a factor into your settlement location choice. I know we are Aragon took things like that, even before this tower business, into account for where we wanted to be. There is always a give and take for choices. Some are better than others. Maybe who ever is at T should talk with Golgotha (assuming they stay at W) and work out a deal or arrangement? That how I would handle it. That whole concept of working together and forming alliances and agreements, often referred to as "Pacts" :-)
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Goblin Squad Member
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200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.
But all of those alts are completely untrained. If a character with a couple of weeks of training isn't powerful enough to hold off dozens of day-0 noobs, then Ryan has failed to learn the lesson taught by Professor A Thousand Goons In Rifters.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Every settlement is completely surrounded with towers, and, depending on the size and placing of the PvP window, the situation can just develop into "every commoner going out of the city to harvest is automatically a viable targeet for anyone except for people from the same settlements".
This is a valid point. If the Towers surrounding your Settlement are unclaimed, then they're consequence-free PvP zones 100% of the time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Not all cases are those hexes easy. The most pathological case is -08.06 which is next to T, but because of elevation is 10 travel hexes away (including 3 only 1 travel hex from W (Golgotha). What are the odds that W will take that before T even gets there?
It's worse than that. Ten hexes aside, you have no choice but to pass through two enemy controlled hexes to get to your own....
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Goblinworks Game Designer
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As I said elsewhere, they also said we'd have months to get to that number. Now we don't. If we don't have dozens of members on day one of EE, we will not be able to hold any towers, thus shutting down our settlement's ability to support training on day one of EE.This is going to seriously disadvantage the smaller groups. Especially if they have to hold their surrounding towers. Some groups will be hard-pressed to put a person in each immediate hex if even a single player or two aren't online.They said small groups were never intended to hold a settlement. They mentioned in a post mentioning hundreds. This definitely will play into that....
A few questions, most have already been asked above but I haven't seen an answer yet so I will echo them (Though I understand much is TBD right now, but any info would be great. Even if is it speculative like the very early blogs):
More info concerning the towers' effect on training. How does gaining another tower or losing one affect training in the settlement.
What exactly do you mean by "can train 2 class/roles but support them all." Does that mean we can train fighters and rogues, but only have spells for sale without the training to use them?
A few answers!
a) Each settlement can train X things up to level Y. X always remains the same and is determined by which prebuilt settlement you choose. Y, however, is determined by the number of towers you have.
Basically, every ability/skill/feat in the game has 20 levels. Every tower you own adds another level to the training available in your settlement.
b)This harks back to a previous post. So - being able to TRAIN means that there will be a structure in the settlement from which a player can purchase skills for that class or role. Being able to SUPPORT means there will be a structure in that settlement that can maintain the training gained for a player's class or role (i.e. it will not get turned off/decay), but cannot actually sell any skills or abilities.
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Goblin Squad Member
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200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.But all of those alts are completely untrained. If a character with a couple of weeks of training isn't powerful enough to hold off dozens of day-0 noobs, then Ryan has failed to learn the lesson taught by Professor A Thousand Goons In Rifters.
Everyone is untrained on day 1 of EE.
Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.
A hard truth: I [Ryan Dancey] think there will be many more people who want to run a Settlement than there will be Settlements..
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Goblin Squad Member
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200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.But all of those alts are completely untrained. If a character with a couple of weeks of training isn't powerful enough to hold off dozens of day-0 noobs, then Ryan has failed to learn the lesson taught by Professor A Thousand Goons In Rifters.Everyone is untrained on day 1 of EE.
Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.
Nobody needs level 20 training on day 1 of EE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.A hard truth: I [Ryan Dancey] think there will be many more people who want to run a Settlement than there will be Settlements..
Only this isn't about how many settlements there are. This is about how many groups will control all of the settlements starting a very short time into play, instead of a year of two later. Please don't pretend the one has anything to do with the other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Will we be able to belong to 3 companies on day 1, could I potentially be contributing to the training level of three different settlements? What if 1 company I belong to is fighting another company I belong to for control of the same tower? Will my presence contribute only to the higher priority company?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Only this isn't about how many settlements there are. This is about how many groups will control all of the settlements starting a very short time into play, instead of a year of two later. Please don't pretend the one has anything to do with the other.Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.A hard truth: I [Ryan Dancey] think there will be many more people who want to run a Settlement than there will be Settlements..
Basically, you describing gunswarm scenario, only way faster?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are utterly wrong.: 200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.
day 1 log:
"Window is opening in settlement "F": All available members log into your NW Quadrant alt now and head for hex -xx.-yy" (crush all opposition in the area)
Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "AB": All available members log into your alt in SE Quadrant now and head for hex xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "B": All available members log into your alt in NE Quadrant now and head for hex -xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)Put a large number of allies in two or three settlements, and the problem just gets worse, as they can pick matching or conflicting PvP windows and use all members to defend both settlements.
End result after the first week or two, a bunch of small settlements with no towers and all towers divided up among two or three groups. Nobody can train anything of note in any settlement that isn't part of a large alliance or an NPC settlement
Ah I see, you mean more as an early warning system. I suppose that could be a problem.
Hmmm, I suppose you could make your windows match so they can't defend and attack at the same time. Plus general travel time problems.
Or they could just severely limit character slots at the start.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Only this isn't about how many settlements there are. This is about how many groups will control all of the settlements starting a very short time into play, instead of a year of two later. Please don't pretend the one has anything to do with the other.Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.A hard truth: I [Ryan Dancey] think there will be many more people who want to run a Settlement than there will be Settlements..
My apologies, but I'm not sure I understand the concern you're voicing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nobody needs level 20 training on day 1 of EE.200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.But all of those alts are completely untrained. If a character with a couple of weeks of training isn't powerful enough to hold off dozens of day-0 noobs, then Ryan has failed to learn the lesson taught by Professor A Thousand Goons In Rifters.Everyone is untrained on day 1 of EE.
Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.
The pretense was that an untrained alt could be held off by a trained character. At the star of EE, no untrained alt will be at any disadvantage to any non-alt.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think he means that since the majority of players aren't participating in the Land Rush or the current politicking, the big groups that do currently exist will have a huge advantage as the small people won't have the time buffer during EE to build up their numbers from the general populace.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There has been no indication that "Alts" unregistered for EE and unsubscribed on the "monthly" plan will be available in EE. It would not be a good thing if they were, considering this system, so I doubt it will be.
Crikey! It is hard not to get buried when a topic is hot! :)
Was there some kind of info that I missed about free extra characters?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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@Tuffon
Last I heard XP gain is limited to one character at a time unless you have Destinies Twin which probably won't exist at the start of EE. So spamming alts everywhere won't really accomplish much.
You are utterly wrong.: 200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.
day 1 log:
"Window is opening in settlement "F": All available members log into your NW Quadrant alt now and head for hex -xx.-yy" (crush all opposition in the area)
Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "AB": All available members log into your alt in SE Quadrant now and head for hex xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)Later:
"Window is opening in settlement "B": All available members log into your alt in NE Quadrant now and head for hex -xx.yy" (crush all opposition in the area)Put a large number of allies in two or three settlements, and the problem just gets worse, as they can pick matching or conflicting PvP windows and use all members to defend both settlements.
End result after the first week or two, a bunch of small settlements with no towers and all towers divided up among two or three groups. Nobody can train anything of note in any settlement that isn't part of a large alliance or an NPC settlement
Sure, if someone has enough characters, training time, player time, and multitasking ability to assault a tower while defending thirty others, they're going to be pretty powerful entities.
The difficulty of keeping all your towers scales with the square of the number of towers held- you have to hold an increasing number of towers for an increasingly long window. Meanwhile, the number of companies holding a tower increases linearly, and the difficulty of finding a time for the vulnerability window that works well for every company explodes in a manner greater than exponentially.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tork: what level training will be supported in the safeholds during EE?
What level training will be supported by a settlement with no towers?
What level training will realistically be required by the most advanced characters before this system is replaced?
Depending on the answers to these questions, a settlement might be able to skip the game of towers altogether with little or no consequence....
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So what? They paid for EE and Alpha access didn't they? Part of this is to help establish a "backstory" and real culture and community for the OE players to walk into, and this IS the River Kingdoms after all.
More players in a Settlement is optimal, that's because they have a greater net "worth" essentially, that's how it's always been designed as far as I can tell. Day 1 OE players will not be prepared to settle their own town on day 1 simply because they wont understand the game yet most likely.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My apologies, but I'm not sure I understand the concern you're voicing.Only this isn't about how many settlements there are. This is about how many groups will control all of the settlements starting a very short time into play, instead of a year of two later. Please don't pretend the one has anything to do with the other.Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.A hard truth: I [Ryan Dancey] think there will be many more people who want to run a Settlement than there will be Settlements..
Apparently.
Small groups expected to have several months to build up numbers before inter-settlement conflict would have any meaningful results. Now we are told that will happen on day 1 of EE. Unless a group can take/retain towers their settlement will be at a disadvantage to provide training to their members, which will be apparent, and will also be a detriment to their ability to attract residents during EE.
Those with zero PvP experience will no longer have any opportunity to absorb that before losing has meaningful consequences to the future of their settlement. They will fall like glass in the face of large, organized groups.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Guys, there can't be hyndreds of alts yet, since early enrollment costs $100 per account. This interim measure won't last to OE, so the hundreds of alts issues won't have anything to do with tower defense.
This is a good thing, it channels PvP, and PvE will still be able to take place most of the time totally unhindered.
And this is from someone who has little PvP experience and worries about the game turning into a murderfest.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think he means that since the majority of players aren't participating in the Land Rush or the current politicking, the big groups that do currently exist will have a huge advantage as the small people won't have the time buffer during EE to build up their numbers from the general populace.
If we're talking about players joining Early Enrollment after the Land Rush, during the War of Towers, before the Great Catastrophe...
A small group can form their own Company and start growing it. At the same time, they can join a larger Company to assist in capturing and holding a Tower. They can then begin the process of growing their own Company.
That small group should have no expectations of running a Settlement right away.
Or am I still missing something, Cal B?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Nobody needs level 20 training on day 1 of EE.200 person group. Each person puts an alt in several strategic spots.But all of those alts are completely untrained. If a character with a couple of weeks of training isn't powerful enough to hold off dozens of day-0 noobs, then Ryan has failed to learn the lesson taught by Professor A Thousand Goons In Rifters.Everyone is untrained on day 1 of EE.
Most small settlements will have to give up before they have time to train anything.
Additionally, having access to higher-level trainers has no benefit without both the prerequisite skills and gear.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Yeah...I'm a new player and I'm really not looking forward to any sort of pvp. I was actually looking forward to having a couple of months to tool around and learn the game and the lay of the land/resources of whatever settlement we end up in. Having to suddenly defend several towers on a daily basis from capture or lose the ability to train anything in our settlement is pretty much exactly what I didn't want to do. I just hope those of us who wanted to be pve and crafting focused don't have to spend all of our time in defense of these towers and end up having no time to accomplish what we actually want to in game. But again, I'm new, so perhaps my inexperience is causing me to have a skewed viewpoint on this situation. I do know at least one settlement member who will be extremely happy about this!This just means we will spend the majority of our time fighting other PvP'ers instead of random folks. This is a good thing for the PvP-averse.It promotes meaningful PvP in concentrated areas at specific times, which should be a huge boon for people looking to avoid PvP.I can see the point you both are making, and I hope you are both are correct. I'm not sure it will be easy to convince the PVE player that that is how it wil play out, though.
To put a small rephrasing on what I expect to happen: Everybody knows precisely when and where the big PvP events will be. People who want to participate will be there, and people who don't want to participate probably won't be.
I didn't see anything that implied that training wouldn't be available at NPC settlements, or that zero training would be available at settlements that controlled zero towers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Guys, there can't be hyndreds of alts yet, since early enrollment costs $100 per account. This interim measure won't last to OE, so the hundreds of alts issues won't have anything to do with tower defense.
You are of the impression that there will be no alts permitted during early enrollment?
Alts don't require a separate account or any extra money. They are a separate character on the same account.
This is not a good thing for small groups.