Goblin Squad Member
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Here is a map showing all the settlement placements this week with names color-coded to better understand the geopolitical scheme. I think everyone will find it helpful. Thanks to fellow FMS guildmate, Sundracon for making this:
<Faction Map>
Faction Votes broke down to:
Roseblood Accord - 687
Northern Coalition - 149
Independents - 293
<Faction Votes>
If we miscalculated something please let me know!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Please be careful with terminology, SirZac. The Roseblood Accord isn't a faction as that term's coming into use in the game; that's more for groups like the Knights of Iomedae and the Hellknights.
Roseblood--to me--is looser than that. Its definition is open to broad interpretation--not least among its various signatories--but I hear a common thread of belief that we're not a group in the same category as those NPC factions we'll be able to join in-game.
As Bluddwolf pointed out, factions seem to be something one has to choose at most one of, and Roseblood doesn't have that property.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really feel like the "faction totals" is just further pushing misconceptions. Can we stop looking at the Roseblood Accord as a faction? Talonguard doesn't owe allegiance to anyone or vice versa. We have no one dependent on us and aren't dependent on others. We wont be aided by 600 people if attacked and if we are it will have nothing to do with the RA.
I really just don't want to give the impression that it means we're wrapped up in each other's politics and wars.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Faction is the most natural term to refer generally to player communities of interest at a multinational scale, too, though... so if we don't want endless confusion between NPC factions and massive blobs of players, we'll probably need to come up with another word for the latter.
Alliance is too strong. Consortium? Bloc? Pact? Friendship? Nothing seems to quite fit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll just throw out a few random thoughts on this, some good, some less.
1. Jazz is right, factions is an unfortunate term and already has meaning for PFO and that meaning includes red/blue attack status. The Northern Coalition barely qualifies as a faction, the Roseblood Accord clearly doesn't.
2. I noticed that you used red and blue. Nice touch for what I think you mean to accomplish. Why is Roseblood blue? Are we Jedi-like or do we act like Democrats? Roseblood denotes red...twice.
3. Just like I said the last time a map like this was made, it's fun to look at (and well made grats!), but it doesn't amount to much. The real political maps have to wait for the game to start.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nothing seems to quite fit.
You can only imagine how long it took a couple of dozen people on Teamspeak to come up with "Accord" being a term upon which we could settle. I'm revealing no secrets when I tell you that the word-smithing meeting for the Accord ran more than 12 hours--not all of it on the name, of course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Personally, I feel that separating out RA members on maps like this at ALL is counterproductive. It's basically people who've said "Hey, positive gameplay I see as a valuable goal" though people have varying opinions about what all that entails.
That does not imply any kind of alliance or allegiance of any sort, or that any RA member is suddenly not independent. At most it signifies people who are likely to be cooperative in general. Not just to each other, but to anyone who wishes for cooperation.
Some people who do know better about the RA have what I would call misperceptions, and people who DON'T know about the RA in any kind of detail are going to be handheld down a path of faulty assumptions when they look at a map and see RA members grouped like this.
Sorry that this is where these thoughts are coming out in, it could really be any of several threads where I've had these thoughts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alliance is too strong. Consortium? Bloc? Pact? Friendship? Nothing seems to quite fit.
The RA and NC are agreements which various groups have signed on to. The only term suggested thus far which accurately describes that is 'pact'. The RA members have a pact to 'promote positive gameplay'. The NC members have a pact to 'not destroy each other'.
The term 'accord' works too, but given that's part of RA's name it might cause confusion. Other synonyms: agreement, entente, protocol, deal, concord.
Most of the actual alliances or 'factions' which have formed thus far have been groups banding together to promote a single settlement for the land rush. Once the land rush ends we might then see some of those settlements making alliances with each other, but that's difficult to do when your location on the map is still uncertain.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If I'm right (and being Canadian, I usually am but am too humble to admit it) The Roseblood accord is intended to be extra-game; an agreement between the players to hold to a set of ideals, that (at least superficially) has no direct meaning to the characters themselves. The Northern Coalition strikes me as more of an in-game construct.
On the other hand, I've paid far less attention to either than to my own plans for a secret western cabal (not Kabal) of all food production in the game.
Shhh!
Oh what a giveaway.
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Goblin Squad Member
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..."coalition"...Our non-American participants informed us that word has unavoidably negative connotations with which we didn't want to deal.
Yeah we went over all of this. I actually liked Pact as the "softer word", but others thought it sounded like blood pact, especially combined with Roseblood. Truth is it does not matter what we call it or how much we explain it, when more than 50% of the players in settlements are signed to it, haterz gonna hate.
All we did was sign up for a way to play at the meta level and agree that we generally like each other and made friends on the playground. Haterz know that very darn well, but haterz gonna hate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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..."coalition"...Our non-American participants informed us that word has unavoidably negative connotations with which we didn't want to deal.Yeah we went over all of this. I actually liked Pact as the "softer word", but others thought it sounded like blood pact, especially combined with Roseblood. Truth is it does not matter what we call it or how much we explain it, when more than 50% of the players in settlements are signed to it, haterz gonna hate.
All we did was sign up for a way to play at the meta level and agree that we generally like each other and made friends on the playground. Haterz know that very darn well, but haterz gonna hate.
Calling others "haters" is always so convincing as a principle held by those who claim to be bastions of "positive game play".
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe Zac is referring to votes for the game called Land Rush. See plenty try to pretend their associations offer them no benefit right now because they are talking in game, not the Land Rush. But we aren't. The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent. IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid. We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not. You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...certain members knew where they were headed.
Kabal is indeed a signatory to the Accord, and they did indeed know where they intended to choose in the Land Rush. To the best of my knowledge, they shared that information with no one prior to Lee's telling us all yesterday morning.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL. I am sure I hurt your feelings.
TBH, you hurt mine. I am sort of offended. My first thought was "oh, Avari calling me a hater because i am with Freevale and not RA". I dismissed this idea, immediately.
After hiting F5, i read your quoted post. I do not think such talking helps people outside RA to look at it's members more favourably.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I believe Zac is referring to votes for the game called Land Rush. See plenty try to pretend their associations offer them no benefit right now because they are talking in game, not the Land Rush. But we aren't. The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent. IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid. We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not. You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
You would if you just came in and talked to us, you know.
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Nothing seems to quite fit.You can only imagine how long it took a couple of dozen people on Teamspeak to come up with "Accord" being a term upon which we could settle. I'm revealing no secrets when I tell you that the word-smithing meeting for the Accord ran more than 12 hours--not all of it on the name, of course.
Not to mention the amount of time, work, and discussion that went into the wording to trying & avoid the exact situation the RA affiliates are facing now; Trying to fight the perception that we are a nation, alliance, or have any kind of "structure" whatsoever.
But yeah, the name only took about 11 hours of that time if I recall... hahah
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Goblin Squad Member
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You would if you just came in and talked to us, you know.I believe Zac is referring to votes for the game called Land Rush. See plenty try to pretend their associations offer them no benefit right now because they are talking in game, not the Land Rush. But we aren't. The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent. IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid. We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not. You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
Care to elaborate Avari? Did the Accord know that F was Kabal's target and that Tavernhold knew about it or they didn't? Cause Jazz's post above indicates that you guys had no idea. We did reach out to Tavernhold, but hadn't heard back. Hence the I don't know if they suspected something or not.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL. I am sure I hurt your feelings.
TBH, you hurt mine. I am sort of offended. My first thought was "oh, Avari calling me a hater because i am with Freevale and not RA". I dismissed this idea, immediately.
After hiting F5, i read your quoted post. I do not think such talking helps people outside RA to look at it's members more favourably.
Just because you don't root for the Miami Heat, doesn't make you a Lebron James hater. My apologies to anybody who honestly doesn't know the difference.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Care to elaborate Avari? Did the Accord know that F was Kabal's target and that Tavernhold knew about it or they didn't? Cause Jazz's post above indicates that you guys had no idea. We did reach out to Tavernhold, but hadn't heard back. Hence the I don't know if they suspected something or not.You would if you just came in and talked to us, you know.I believe Zac is referring to votes for the game called Land Rush. See plenty try to pretend their associations offer them no benefit right now because they are talking in game, not the Land Rush. But we aren't. The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent. IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid. We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not. You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
I am not a member of Kabal or Tavernhold, I can't comment on those things publicly. Even privately there isn't much I can say about Land Rush strategies between two friends.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am not a member of Kabal or Tavernhold, I can't comment on those things publicly. Even privately there isn't much I can say about Land Rush strategies between two friends.Care to elaborate Avari? Did the Accord know that F was Kabal's target and that Tavernhold knew about it or they didn't? Cause Jazz's post above indicates that you guys had no idea. We did reach out to Tavernhold, but hadn't heard back. Hence the I don't know if they suspected something or not.You would if you just came in and talked to us, you know.I believe Zac is referring to votes for the game called Land Rush. See plenty try to pretend their associations offer them no benefit right now because they are talking in game, not the Land Rush. But we aren't. The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent. IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid. We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not. You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
You're avoiding my question. I would like to know why I would have an idea of whether or not Tavernhold knew they were about to be pushed by talking to you guys.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent.
Uh and how do you arrive at this conclusion? Go back and look at the RA thread before Magistry joined where I asked what exactly the terms of the thing are and what joining it entails. Then look at the answer I was provided.
THAT is what we joined the Accord based on. Not some hogwash about recruiting alliances and secret benefits.IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid.
I couldn't care less if anyone in the NC joined the RA. They all can as far as I'm concerned. The fact that other RA members have their OWN opinions (GASP, how awful!) and asked questions regarding the UNC's view of positive gameplay caused the UNC to WITHDRAW their interest doesn't mean that they were BARRED or that anyone else is.
Was ANYONE ever told "You are not allowed to join the RA" or are you just making assumptions here?We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not.
Your feelings and your faulty assumptions have no bearing on whether or not we are independent entities. Whether you view us as such or treat us as such is irrelevant. We'll continue to act as such just the same.
You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.
This is a load of nonsense and a very cynical view. If you have secret knowledge that I'm unaware of, please share. But I know from Talonguard's point of view this is total nonsense and I doubt we're the only ones out of this secret loop of knowledge you seem privy to.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a blindside when it was obvious certain members knew where they were headed. If Tavernhold would of been a part of the Accord and not neutral, I wonder if they would of lost F at all. Or at least perhaps they would of been clued in that it was going to happen. Maybe they already knew. I have no idea. I hope they were given a heads up. That would of been an example of positive gameplay if they had been notified.
What exactly are you implying here? That Kabal was being meanies for...taking the spot that the process entitled them to take? Or are you saying that they specifically targeted that spot because it wasn't an RA member? Or are you actually suggesting that this was some grand RA plan?
You can say whatever the hell you want about your own group but how about you stop presuming to know a damn thing about the one I'm a part of.
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Goblin Squad Member
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LOL. I am sure I hurt your feelings.
TBH, you hurt mine. I am sort of offended. My first thought was "oh, Avari calling me a hater because i am with Freevale and not RA". I dismissed this idea, immediately.
After hiting F5, i read your quoted post. I do not think such talking helps people outside RA to look at it's members more favourably.
Just because you don't root for the Miami Heat, doesn't make you a Lebron James hater. My apologies to anybody who honestly doesn't know the difference.
Didn't understand, first. Tried Google, found this.
So Miami Heat is a basketball team. LeBron James is a star of this team. Just because i am no fan of the "Heat", doesn't mean i hate their star... got it. Accepted. ;)Word play can be a two sided sword with an international audience, like on these forums... ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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You're avoiding my question. I would like to know why I would have an idea of whether or not Tavernhold knew they were about to be pushed by talking to you guys.Nobody could have "known" because they've indicated that "F" was their second choice, not first.
I'm not saying that they did. I'm just curious what insight I would of gained from talking to Avari about this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Calling others "haters" is always so convincing as a principle held by those who claim to be bastions of "positive game play"...."coalition"...Our non-American participants informed us that word has unavoidably negative connotations with which we didn't want to deal.Yeah we went over all of this. I actually liked Pact as the "softer word", but others thought it sounded like blood pact, especially combined with Roseblood. Truth is it does not matter what we call it or how much we explain it, when more than 50% of the players in settlements are signed to it, haterz gonna hate.
All we did was sign up for a way to play at the meta level and agree that we generally like each other and made friends on the playground. Haterz know that very darn well, but haterz gonna hate.
Positive game play does not mean we can't call things as they are. A spade a spade if you will. It does mean that I am not going to argue with you back and forth over that point. We've put our definition of what we are trying to accomplish out there. If others choose to ignore it and make claims of something else and try to spin it as sinister, so be it.
Anyone truly wanting clarification knows to go to the source and ask as opposed to relying on what others assume.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Didn't understand, first. Tried Google, found this.
So Miami Heat is a basketball team. LeBron James is a star of this team. Just because i am no fan of the "Heat", doesn't mean i hate their star... got it. Accepted. ;)Word play can be a two sided sword with an international audience, like on these forums... ;)
Point taken and also accepted ;)
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IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid.
With this sentence you reveal that you understand nothing about what the RA really is, is intended to be, or why we chose to make it thus.
There is no such thing as "allowed" into the RA. All you do is agree to its terms, and BAM you're done.
Some people have tried VERY hard to try and make the RA vs NC the first big PvP front, seeing conflict and underhanded dealing where there are none. To me that seems like the standard projection defense mechanism experienced by the type of player who simply can't accept that there isn't some shadowy figure pulling strings.
If that's an important part of the game you're trying to play, so be it, just know all repeatedly bashing its precepts does is tarnish your reputation to understand something that is in fact, very simple, and benign.
Also it's extremely insulting to state that the signatories participated in order to try and push recruitment for the LR.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Accord is a recruitment alliance for the Land Rush and that most certainly does not make you independent.Uh and how do you arrive at this conclusion? Go back and look at the RA thread before Magistry joined where I asked what exactly the terms of the thing are and what joining it entails. Then look at the answer I was provided.
THAT is what we joined the Accord based on. Not some hogwash about recruiting alliances and secret benefits.IF the Northern Coalition would be allowed to join the Roseblood Accord, then the stance of positive gameplay would make sense and in our minds, valid.I couldn't care less if anyone in the NC joined the RA. They all can as far as I'm concerned. The fact that other RA members have their OWN opinions (GASP, how awful!) and asked questions regarding the UNC's view of positive gameplay caused the UNC to WITHDRAW their interest doesn't mean that they were BARRED or that anyone else is.
Was ANYONE ever told "You are not allowed to join the RA" or are you just making assumptions here?We could join the Accord without feeling like we are taking sides. We are not the only ones that feel this way and you may call yourself independent, but you are not.Your feelings and your faulty assumptions have no bearing on whether or not we are independent entities. Whether you view us as such or treat us as such is irrelevant. We'll continue to act as such just the same.
You are in an alliance to secure locations. You are in an alliance for 'mutual benefit.' Once you get in the game, if the Accord falls apart - its purpose has already been served.This is a load of nonsense and a very cynical view. If you have secret knowledge that I'm unaware of, please share. But I know from Talonguard's point of view this is total nonsense and I doubt we're the only ones out of this secret loop of knowledge you seem privy to.
We should ask Tavernhold about their feelings of a...
First I think you are taking this way too personal.
I don't think the Accord is 'bad.' I actually like and respect quite a few members in there. Yourself included. I do not see members of the Accord as independent and I listed my reasons why. There are numerous posts on this board where statements have been made about the Accord helping each other to recruit to secure locations. I'm not saying that's bad or wrong or needs to be stopped. It's smart actually. I'm merely answering why we call ourselves independent and Zac's post is highlighting the landscape as we see it with votes. If all of this is wrong, please correct us and clear up this massive misinformation.|
Goblin Squad Member
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How about we make a political map denoting the settlements that have players who are part of Pax Gaming? It would paint Ozem's Vigil and Hammerfall in the same color as Callambea. Would it be accurate? Yes. Would it be fun for many to look at? Yes. Would it be fair? Ozem's Vigil would probably say no and that's pretty close to the point Toombstone is making.
So again I'll say, let's just try not to take this map very seriously, cool as it looks.