What causes the high CL in some of the item descriptions?

[FantasticMrHead]

I've noticed that some items in the magic item descriptions have a higher CL than is required to cast the spells necessary in their creation. Why is this? I've searched these forums and the core rulebook for some explanation but can't seem to figure this out.

An example would be Chimes of Opening. Why are they listed as CL 11th when you only need to be able to cast Knock and have Craft Wondrous Item? I thought all descriptions listed the CL as the lowest necessary to cast the required spells.

[Gilarius]

Many CLs are totally random. They are simply example caster levels so the GM has a number to use for unexpected dispel magic attempts. They do not affect the level required to craft an item: if this is a requirement at all, it will be listed at the bottom of the item description under 'requirements' along with any spells and other things.

Of course, a GM is fully entitled to change the system so the listed CL is an extra requirement but that would be a house rule.

[FantasticMrHead]

That's so strange. I would have thought they'd always just list the minimum requirement. Thanks.

[wraithstrike]

The spell used to create the item is what determines it at times, unless the item has special rules such as armor or weapons.

[shadowkras]

Its just the "complexity" of the effect on the item.
But most of the time its the minimum caster level to cast the spells on it.

Quote:

An example would be Chimes of Opening. Why are they listed as CL 11th when you only need to be able to cast Knock and have Craft Wondrous Item?

Yes, but the chimes of opening can also dispell an Arcane Lock or Hold Portal spell with no caster check.

Arcane lock is 2th, so the DC to dispell it is 12.
A dispel magic check to automatically dispel it (1 on d20) would require at least caster level 11.

[ryric]

Remember that knock in Pathfinder is a caster level based spell - it just gives you a Disable Device roll based on your caster level. So in this particular case having a higher caster level keeps the chime relevant to higher levels. Otherwise by the time you could afford it, it's not worth having.

Shadowkras, dispel checks are based on caster level not spell level, so an arcane lock would generally be a 13 to dispel, at least.

[James Risner]

CL listed are the CL of any item the GM gives as treasure or has been otherwise found or bought by a PC.

If the PC makes his own, the CL is what his CL is not the chart. This CL must be high enough to cast all the required spells.

[Majuba]

Caster level has two main effects:

• Sets the caster level of all effects created by the item (important for range, damage, duration), as well as the DC to dispel the effects or the item itself.
  
• Sets the base DC of the check to create the item, 5 + Caster Level (+ modifiers for speed or missing prerequisites), representing the 'complexity' as shadowkras said.

shadowkras: DC to dispel an arcane lock is 11 + caster level, not 10 + spell level.

Ryric: oddly the Chime doesn't use knock exactly as the spell, but it does use it's caster level like you mentioned.

James: you can't arbitrarily increase or decrease the caster level, as that could very easily change the cost of the item. Agreed the caster level of an item must be high enough to cast all the spells, but a PC crafter need not be that level to craft an item (though it will add cost or difficulty if they can't cast the spells).

[shadowkras]

I stand corrected.

[James Risner]

Majuba wrote:

James: you can't arbitrarily increase or decrease the caster level, as that could very easily change the cost of the item. Agreed the caster level of an item must be high enough to cast all the spells, but a PC crafter need not be that level to craft an item (though it will add cost or difficulty if they can't cast the spells).

We differ, the price would be the same regardless of CL for a Wondrous item (but different for a Wand/Staff/Potion/Scroll).

Pearl of Power: What is the caster level required to create this item?

Though the listed Caster Level for a pearl of power is 17th, that caster level is not part of the Requirements listing for that item. Therefore, the only caster level requirement for a pearl of power is the character has to be able to cast spells of the desired level.

However, it makes sense that the minimum caster level of the pearl is the minimum caster level necessary to cast spells of that level--it would be strange for a 2nd-level pearl to be CL 1st.

For example, a 3rd-level wizard with Craft Wondrous Item can create a 1st-level pearl, with a minimum caster level of 1. He can set the caster level to whatever he wants (assuming he can meet the crafting DC), though the pearl's caster level has no effect on its powers (other than its ability to resist dispel magic). If he wants to make a 2nd-level pearl, the caster level has to be at least 3, as wizards can't cast 2nd-level spells until they reach character level 3. He can even try to make a 3rd-level pearl, though the minimum caster level is 5, and he adds +5 to the DC because he doesn't meet the "able to cast 3rd-level spells" requirement.
posted August 2010