Fixing Antagonize

[taldanrebel2187]

So one of my PCs plays with an Intimidate build. Antagonize seems like a slightly OP feat, considering it can force an enemy to attack one player. I'm looking for a house rule to balance this out.

Ideas...

1) Immune to fear = Immune to all forms of Intimidate, including Antagonize

2) Creature must understand your language, disallowing all gesture taunts

3) Immune to mind-affecting = Immune to Antagonize

4) DC increases as per size modifier on creature

What says the community?

[Blakmane]

The ability IS a mind-affecting effect. Also: "You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower."

'understand you' implies they have to understand your language, yes... although he may argue this.

[taldanrebel2187]

Isn't it a pretty logical second step to say immune to fear = immune to intimidate? That's the way it was ran in 3.5. Plus size bonuses to being intimidated by smaller creatures. Plus opposed check from it being, well, intimidate :P

[Gingerbreadman]

4) there already IS a size modifier build into the intimidate part of antagonize.

Apart from this the "antagonize is OP" sentiment mostly comes from a "mundanes can't have useful things" set of mind. It costs a standard action and the intimidate version can only performed once per day per enemy.
Just compare it to the once per day per enemy hexes and you will notice that those are stronger. And it needs more investment to be effective because most PCs that can afford to make enemies attack them will get little use from high Cha. So you need decent cha and/or additional traits/feats to make it work.

That said:
3: Yes
2: No
1: I would lean to no.

[taldanrebel2187]

"You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower."

Strict reading of this is that language = understanding. I think that's probably the RAI here :p

[Umbranus]

taldanrebel2187 wrote:

"You cannot make this check against a creature that does not understand you or has an Intelligence score of 3 or lower."

Strict reading of this is that language = understanding. I think that's probably the RAI here :p

For the diplomacy version, right. Can still use the intimidate version. If you don't like the feat better tell that to your player instead of nerfing 'till it's not of much use anymore. There is too much investment needed to build such a trap if you like/appreciate your players.