Artanthos |
The eidolon winks out. There is no way to prevent this short of avoiding/destroying the AMF.
Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score.
Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field
Bandw2 |
What does dispelling have to do with AMF?
none, just fluff that the Eidolon's don't really use magic to exist on this plane.
oh and that the intent of that rule is to make it so only spells designed to banish summons work on it, and that antimagic fields may have slipped their mind.
Bandw2 |
AMF does not banish summoned creatures, they simply cannot manifest within the area of effect.
yeah, with that in mind, I don't like my train of thought as much anymore.
also, it appears you can give your Eidolon spell resistance it can resist winking out if the AMF is cast on it or at least with the Eidolon in it's AOE.
there's also this line:
"The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result."
and Eidolon summoning doesn't have a duration...?
but summoning is the only school that makes no mention of instantaneous durations...
Bandw2 |
Err...is the eidolon an instantaneous conjuration? Is it even a conjuration effect? It's not even a spell or a spell-like ability. Its not listed as anything really. Not (Su), not (Ex), not anything.
no it's not, but the only way for you to summon anything else is with a conjuration spell, which has 4 or 5 sub-schools, summoning is one of them... Gah i don't like it, i'm not going to feel comfortable until i can clearly label what summoning an Eidolon is.
Right now, it's a 1 minute casting time ritual.
so by RAW you can either consider it:
A. it is not explicitly stated therefore doesn't work. <-easily the most RAW
B. it is in part insinuated (since it says nothing) that an Eidolon's aspect is summoned via a conjuration effect(since this is the only kind of effect that can do this), and since it only ends in a banishment or dismissal, has a duration of instantaneous as the spell never need concentration checks nor ends causing the Eidolon to be sent back.(this is looking into the definitions for all the possible durations a spell can be listed as and finding none that work except instantaneous)
there's also this. which sort of suggests that the ritual is like a summon effect, and the only real difference is casting time and duration, which cause it to be dispel-able and not able to attack things protected.
Bandw2 |
There's also the Conjuring (Calling) subschool like Gate.
On a side note, if a Summoner is in the middle of the summoning ritual, an someone introduces an AMF, does the ritual get disrupted? By RAW, it's not (Sp) or (Su)...
no it doesn't, also, it's summoning based on how the fluff explains eidolons. I actually think the ritual is you using the shared part of your souls or at least your metaphysical link to bring its aspect onto the plane your on.
you never actually summon your eidolon, you summon at best it's aspect.
this is all very weird... WHAT EVEN IS THE REASON YOU BIND YOUR SOUL WITH AN EIDOLON? seems like "just because" so far.
Bard-Sader |
you never actually summon your eidolon, you summon at best it's aspect.
this is all very weird... WHAT EVEN IS THE REASON YOU BIND YOUR SOUL WITH AN EIDOLON? seems like "just because" so far.
Hmm...not the fluff I'm using with my current summoner. My summoner is actually summoning the eidolon, not just an aspect. The eidolon happens to be my aasimar character's ancestor (an angel of some sort).
Say, at level 19, the SM SLA becomes a Gate SLA. If I use Gate to open a portal to my eidolon and it chooses to step through, then at that point it's a Called creature and is immune to suppression via AMFs right?
Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:you never actually summon your eidolon, you summon at best it's aspect.
this is all very weird... WHAT EVEN IS THE REASON YOU BIND YOUR SOUL WITH AN EIDOLON? seems like "just because" so far.
Hmm...not the fluff I'm using with my current summoner. My summoner is actually summoning the eidolon, not just an aspect. The eidolon happens to be my aasimar character's ancestor (an angel of some sort).
Say, at level 19, the SM SLA becomes a Gate SLA. If I use Gate to open a portal to my eidolon and it chooses to step through, then at that point it's a Called creature and is immune to suppression via AMFs right?
yes(@ being immune to suppression, but at the same time he shouldnt be banished when you sleep/die), though I am almost entirely(like the moment i put this i was like, i'm actually pretty not sure) sure all non-native outsiders use aspects when on the material plane...
Bandw2 |
Eidolon wrote:Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures,I think that that clear it. It is in the description of the edolon class feature.
but AMF says that a summon with a duration of instantaneous is not effected, which for all intents and purposes an eidolon is summoned under some effect that is instantaneous, as it has no duration.
Diego Rossi |
Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
Instantaneous conjuration last forever as they are simply something/someone that has been transported here. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. It is a summoning, albeit with special rules.
Bandw2 |
PRD AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)Instantaneous conjuration last forever as they are simply something/someone that has been transported here. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. It is a summoning, albeit with special rules.
it is banished when you sleep etc, the spell doesn't "end" when you sleep etc.
blahpers |
The eidolon's presence is not an instantaneous effect. It requires the summoner to maintain its presence by being conscious. Like any other summoning, it is winked out by antimagic field.
The instantaneous line prevents creatures conjured via calling, teleportation or creation from being affected in the same way as creatures present through some active effect.
Diego Rossi |
Diego Rossi wrote:it is banished when you sleep etc, the spell doesn't "end" when you sleep etc.PRD AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)Instantaneous conjuration last forever as they are simply something/someone that has been transported here. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. It is a summoning, albeit with special rules.
I know it is useless as you want to interpret the rules your way, but the rules are very clear:
A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned.
A summon isn't a instantaneous conjuration. AMF make a summoned creature disappear.
End of the matter.Bandw2 |
Bandw2 wrote:Diego Rossi wrote:it is banished when you sleep etc, the spell doesn't "end" when you sleep etc.PRD AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)Instantaneous conjuration last forever as they are simply something/someone that has been transported here. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. It is a summoning, albeit with special rules.
I know it is useless as you want to interpret the rules your way, but the rules are very clear:
PRD wrote:A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned.A summon isn't a instantaneous conjuration. AMF make a summoned creature disappear.
End of the matter.
I already looked over the types of conjuration effects, I am well aware it is a summon, called spells with durations are effected by AMF. as has been said earlier the effect isn't clear enough for it to be labeled a conjuration effect with some other duration. It isn't a concentration duration, it isn't a spell with a duration, as when you have a character that never needs to sleep their Eidolon can be on forever. the only duration type that makes sense as far as I'm aware is instantaneous. Also, it's obviously a conjuration effect, as it is obviously a summon.
as has been stated earlier the summon ritual could even take place under a anti-magic field. this is more me calling for a clarification of what exactly is the summon ritual. basically if I cant "cast" the thing that summons it in an AMF, there's no reason for the summon to be effected.
Bard-Sader |
The eidolon's presence is not an instantaneous effect. It requires the summoner to maintain its presence by being conscious. Like any other summoning, it is winked out by antimagic field.
The instantaneous line prevents creatures conjured via calling, teleportation or creation from being affected in the same way as creatures present through some active effect.
So if I can Gate in my Eidolon, it counts as a Called creature and is immune to AMF poofage?
Artanthos |
The eidolon ability explicitly labels the eidolon a summoned creature. AMF explicitly causes summoned creatures to wink out.
Specific subschool, duration, and ability type (EX or SU) are irrelevant. The rules are very clear on the nature of the eidolon (summoned) and the affect AMF has on summoned creatures. The RAW has already been linked.
Bandw2 |
blahpers wrote:So if I can Gate in my Eidolon, it counts as a Called creature and is immune to AMF poofage?The eidolon's presence is not an instantaneous effect. It requires the summoner to maintain its presence by being conscious. Like any other summoning, it is winked out by antimagic field.
The instantaneous line prevents creatures conjured via calling, teleportation or creation from being affected in the same way as creatures present through some active effect.
I recently found out Eidolons are their own type of outsider, they aren't outsiders like the rest and lack a body, when you summon them you appear to be giving them shape. (according to the account of an eidolon in some post some other guy linked to in another thread)
Sah |
The eidolon winks out. There is no way to prevent this short of avoiding/destroying the AMF.
Eidolon wrote:Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score.
AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field
Doesn't the bolded section mean that they would not be sent back by an amf?
Artanthos |
Artanthos wrote:Doesn't the bolded section mean that they would not be sent back by an amf?The eidolon winks out. There is no way to prevent this short of avoiding/destroying the AMF.
Eidolon wrote:Eidolons are treated as summoned creatures, except that they are not sent back to their home plane until reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to or greater than their Constitution score.
AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field
Summoned creatures entering an AMF are not returned to their home plane. They reappear as soon as the AMF moves away.
Artanthos |
How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?
You don't.
Magic items don't work in an AMF.
The only thing that even has a chance of breaking an AMF is Disjunction or Aroden's Spellbane.
Scavion |
How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?
It would have to be based on Aroden's Spellbane.
Bard-Sader |
Bard-Sader wrote:How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?You don't.
Magic items don't work in an AMF.
The only thing that even has a chance of breaking an AMF is Disjunction or Aroden's Spellbane.
Yeah, generally they don't, which is why it'd be expensive. I'm not looking to have the Eidolon completely unaffected though. All of its (Su) abilities will be suppressed, as well as its magic items. I just don't want one AMF to completely nullify my best class feature.
bbangerter |
Artanthos wrote:Yeah, generally they don't, which is why it'd be expensive. I'm not looking to have the Eidolon completely unaffected though. All of its (Su) abilities will be suppressed, as well as its magic items. I just don't want one AMF to completely nullify my best class feature.Bard-Sader wrote:How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?You don't.
Magic items don't work in an AMF.
The only thing that even has a chance of breaking an AMF is Disjunction or Aroden's Spellbane.
Welcome to being any form of caster? A wizards spells are their best feature, and is completely nullified by AMF. Same with a lot of other casters.
Diego Rossi |
Diego Rossi wrote:I already looked over the types of conjuration effects, I am well aware it is a summon, called spells with durations are effected by AMF. as has been said earlier the effect isn't clear enough for it to be labeled a conjuration effect with some other duration. It isn't a concentration duration, it isn't a spell with a duration, as when you have a character that never needs to sleep their Eidolon can be on forever. the only duration type that makes sense as far as I'm aware is instantaneous. Also, it's obviously a...Bandw2 wrote:Diego Rossi wrote:it is banished when you sleep etc, the spell doesn't "end" when you sleep etc.PRD AMF wrote:Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)Instantaneous conjuration last forever as they are simply something/someone that has been transported here. The eidolon disappear as soon as the Summoner sleep, become unconscious or die, so it clearly isn't a instantaneous conjuration. It is a summoning, albeit with special rules.
I know it is useless as you want to interpret the rules your way, but the rules are very clear:
PRD wrote:A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned.A summon isn't a instantaneous conjuration. AMF make a summoned creature disappear.
End of the matter.
Permanent, with specific conditions that cancel it.
blahpers wrote:So if I can Gate in my Eidolon, it counts as a Called creature and is immune to AMF poofage?The eidolon's presence is not an instantaneous effect. It requires the summoner to maintain its presence by being conscious. Like any other summoning, it is winked out by antimagic field.
The instantaneous line prevents creatures conjured via calling, teleportation or creation from being affected in the same way as creatures present through some active effect.
The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature.
That leave some doubt about the existence of the eidolon when it is not summoned. A lot of people consider that as saying that the eidolon is a portion of a larger entity, not a specific creature.
More important when you summon the eidolon with the ritual or the spell you both get the benefits and drawbacks of the link between you two.
What happen when you call a eidolon through a gate is left undefined. I think several things will not work or work differently.
Probably you would call your ediolon as an unfettered eidolon.
An eidolon is usually tied to a summoner who forges an unbreakable link with a being not of his world, calling upon it and sending it back to its otherworldly home as he needs. When a summoner dies, this link is destroyed and the eidolon is banished back from whence it came. Occasionally, however, this link between eidolon and summoner is unnaturally severed, usually as a result of powerful magic or some bizarre death, freeing the eidolon upon the world. Few can predict what specific events might cause an eidolon to become unfettered, but those that do become stranded on a plane alien to them, released to act as they please. An eidolon that loses its link to its summoner loses its link to its home realm, and many unfettered eidolons go mad, the glowing runes that once represented their bonds burning painful scars onto their bodies. Unfettered eidolons are not quite as powerful as normal eidolons, but without their evolutions tied to their summoners' whims, these bizarre and varied creatures continue to evolve and advance on their own.[/quote+
Gate fall in the "powerful magic" category.
after your eidolon has become unfettered re-establishing the link will be difficult.
LazarX |
Artanthos wrote:Yeah, generally they don't, which is why it'd be expensive. I'm not looking to have the Eidolon completely unaffected though. All of its (Su) abilities will be suppressed, as well as its magic items. I just don't want one AMF to completely nullify my best class feature.Bard-Sader wrote:How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?You don't.
Magic items don't work in an AMF.
The only thing that even has a chance of breaking an AMF is Disjunction or Aroden's Spellbane.
Everyone has the occasional check. For the fighter it's a flier or the need to move to engage an opponent, for the spellcaster it's the grapple check. Anti-Magic fields have one big drawback.... they also shutdown the AMF's caster even more.
Diego Rossi |
How might you price an item that specifically protects the eidolon from AMF?
If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
So if the summoned eidolon has SR and is in the area of effect when the AMF is cast he has a chance to resist it and make it disappear.
It seem that that will not work after the spell has been cast.Another unusual effect of the AMF and SR combination is that a called creature with SR apparently will not affect the AMF.
Both effect are very different from the normal effect of SR against a area spell, so I say "apparently" and "it seem".