Forsaken Gun (Cleric Archetype)


Homebrew and House Rules


The other night after our weekly Pathfinder game, my friend and GM for the current campain was listening to music on his phone. A song called "The Preacher" by Jamie N. Commons came on and he said that it makes him want to be a cleric/gunslinger who has rejected his god the next time he's able to play as a player. So below is my attempt at making that concept work as a cleric archetype. Most of it is pretty simple, just removing the cleric domains and replacing them with gunslinger abilities. Please let me know what you think. Is it too much for what is given up? Or is it too little? Are there any more flavorful abilities that can be be added or switched out? Thanks for reading.

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Forsaken Gun (Cleric Archetype)
Once in the service of a god, something in this cleric’s past has caused him to become disillusioned with his deity or even with divinity as a whole. His hardened nature has turned him towards the art of the gun to defend himself and others in this unjust world. Although he has lost the domains associated with his former patron, his convention lets him retain much of his divine power.

Alignment: A forsaken gun may be of any alignment.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Forsaken guns are proficient with all simple weapons, firearms, and light armor.

Aura: A forsaken gun does not produce a powerful aura.

Domains: A forsaken gun does not gain the abilities associated with any domains. This includes never getting access to the one domain spell slot at each spell level.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: A forsaken gun has no restrictions on the spells he can cast based on alignment.

Divine Focus: A forsaken gun must present a firearm in place of a holy (or unholy) symbol when channeling energy or when casting spells which require a divine focus.

Gunsmith: At 1st level, a forsaken gun gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat. He also gains a battered gun identical to the one gained by the gunslinger.

Grit (Ex): At the start of each day, a forsaken gun gains a number of grit points equal to his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). These grit points function just as those gained by the gunslinger and can be spent to perform deeds selected from the gunslinger class feature and any other deed gained through feats or magic items.

Ghost Shot (Su): At 1st level, as long as a forsaken gun has at least 1 grit point, any firearm he is touching gains the ghost touch magic weapon special ability. This ability is immediately lost if the forsaken gun lets go of the weapon or if he spends his last point of grit.

Deeds: At 1st level, the forsaken gun selects a single 1st-level deed from the gunslinger deed class feature. At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, a forsaken gun selects an additional deed available to a gunslinger of equal or lower level, or he may select a bonus combat or grit feat.

Bonus Feats: At 3rd level and every 4 levels thereafter, a forsaken gun may select a bonus feat instead of the deed gained at that level. These bonus feats must be combat or grit feats.

Gun Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a forsaken gun gains this feature just as a gunslinger of his level.

Special: Just as a gunslinger, a forsaken gun in a Guns Everywhere setting loses gunsmith and instead gains the gun training class feature at 1st level. A forsaken gun may also qualify for the Musket Master or Pistolero gunslinger archetype, requiring the forsaken gun to take the indicated deeds at the appropriate levels.


That is the song from the Dark Souls 2 commercial right?

As for the class archetype: seems fine enough to me. One fewer spell a day and no domain power seems like it will do the job.

I am not sure about the Ghost Shot ability, though. Maybe give that to him at about level 8 (when he would be getting his second domain power).


Excaliburproxy wrote:
I am not sure about the Ghost Shot ability, though. Maybe give that to him at about level 8 (when he would be getting his second domain power).

Funny you say that. I actually originally had Ghost Shot come in at 8th level, but then I changed it after writing the Divine Focus line, fearing that if a Forsaken Gun when incorporeal from a spell or other effect that he might be left without his focus (gun) and unable to use his channel energy and DF spells. However, after a quick skim of cleric spells, I can't find any that he can use to make himself incorporeal before 8th level anyway. The only spell I found at all was Dust Form. Are there any spells or effects that I'm missing which this might be an issue for? Regardless, I think I probably will put Ghost Shot back as an 8th level ability. Thanks for your feedback!

Edit: And yes, looks like that song was used for a Dark Souls II commercial. Hearing it on my friends phone was actually my first time hearing it.

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The archetype seems okay. Just to be clear, the foresake gun can only take musket master or pistolero if it's a guns everywhere campaign, right?

However, the idea of a cleric that forsakes his deity and divinity yet still retains his cleric class abilities doesn't jive with me. I could understand if he rejected his god in favor of another or decided to turn towards a non-deity-specific faith. But I cannot see any divine power granting spells to an atheist cleric.

For an archetype about being a cleric gunslinger who diverted his faith into his gun instead of a god, I don't really see much in the way of abilities that convey that theme. I'd much rather see a gunslinger cleric have its own unique abilities rather than taking them from the gunslinger. For example instead of giving him the quick clear deed, how about an ability themed around putting faith in his gun to not misfire?


Cyrad wrote:
The archetype seems okay. Just to be clear, the foresake gun can only take musket master or pistolero if it's a guns everywhere campaign, right?

No, a forsaken gun can take the Musket Master or Pistolero archetype regardless of tech level of the campaign. Maybe I should add something like, "A forsaken gun may also, regardless of setting, qualify for...."

Cyrad wrote:
However, the idea of a cleric that forsakes his deity and divinity yet still retains his cleric class abilities doesn't jive with me. I could understand if he rejected his god in favor of another or decided to turn towards a non-deity-specific faith. But I cannot see any divine power granting spells to an atheist cleric.

You can already have an "atheist" cleric. A cleric is never required to follow a deity in any way. This isn't about a cleric forsaking his god and retaining his cleric class abilities. This is about a follower of a god, on his way to becoming a true cleric (game mechanics wise), but forsaking his god before he would have been granted the power from them personally. The forsaken gun still have the basic knowledge of what he would have become, but instead of following a god, his personal convictions and values are still great enough to gain most of his divine powers. What the actual source of that power is? That'd be up to the player and GM if "just because" isn't good enough. Maybe it's just from within: his remaining morals, his resolve to protect others, his desires to crush those who have wronged him, etc. Maybe it comes from the souls of his old town, including those of his wife and children, who were killed and not saved by his old god and now grant him divine power to try to prevent such wrongs from happening again.

Cyrad wrote:
For an archetype about being a cleric gunslinger who diverted his faith into his gun instead of a god, I don't really see much in the way of abilities that convey that theme. I'd much rather see a gunslinger cleric have its own unique abilities rather than taking them from the gunslinger. For example instead of giving him the quick clear deed, how about an ability themed around putting faith in his gun to not misfire?

Yeah, this was a pretty lazy archetype. I just wanted to make a simple multiclass archetype that would fit the flavor my friend was looking for and prevent him from having to make a real multiclass cleric/gunslinger character. Thank you for your thoughts. I might try to make a more unique archetype at some point.

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A cleric that does not worship a deity still must devote themselves to a faith.

And how does a foresaken gun get those archetypes if they don't have gun training to trade for pistol/musket training? If you gave them pistol/musket training, that would make this archetype overpowered and eliminate the reasons for taking the gunslinger class at all.


Cyrad wrote:
A cleric that does not worship a deity still must devote themselves to a faith.

I think you're giving the term "faith" a bit of a too specific definition.

"While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction."

I can see justice as being a very common theme for a forsaken gun, or revenge.

Cyrad wrote:
And how does a foresaken gun get those archetypes if they don't have gun training to trade for pistol/musket training? If you gave them pistol/musket training, that would make this archetype overpowered and eliminate the reasons for taking the gunslinger class at all.

The forsaken gun does get gun training. It's right after the bonus feat line and before the special line. I still see plenty of reasons to still take the gunslinger class: Full BAB. Better skills. Martial weapons. Good reflex instead of will. Nimble to make up for only having light armor. Getting all of the Deeds. Bonus feats (in addition to deeds instead of choosing between them) for something that tends to require a LOT of feats. And, just not wanting to be a divine caster.


Gun training, bonus feats, deeds and full casting? That's much better than an actual cleric. It's better than an Eldritch Knight.

At least base the grit points on charisma instead of wisdom!

And ghost touch is melee only, so you're clonking ghosts with your barrel as an improvised weapon?


Might be easier and more thematically appropriate to make this an Inquisitor or Oracle archetype.

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pluvia33 wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
A cleric that does not worship a deity still must devote themselves to a faith.

I think you're giving the term "faith" a bit of a too specific definition.

"While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction."

I can see justice as being a very common theme for a forsaken gun, or revenge.

The text explicitly says they're devoting their worship to a divine concept. The idea behind the non-deity cleric is that they still devote their life to a divine purpose and elicit assistance from non-specific divine powers, similar to how a druid does so. Even the campaign setting guide lists several religious faiths not specific to a deity, like the Green Faith. When a Green Faith cleric prepares spells, they're receiving divine power from any random god that supports the faith. Clerics that take this option are not atheists. They still believe and serve divine entities, just not specific ones.

It still works for your player and obviously you have control over it. This was a sticking point for me because I really hate the idea of clerics that can completely discard their faith while still retaining their abilities, which goes against everything the class stands for. It drove me up the wall in 4th Edition. I apologize for sticking with this subject.

pluvia33 wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
And how does a foresaken gun get those archetypes if they don't have gun training to trade for pistol/musket training? If you gave them pistol/musket training, that would make this archetype overpowered and eliminate the reasons for taking the gunslinger class at all.
The forsaken gun does get gun training. It's right after the bonus feat line and before the special line. I still see plenty of reasons to still take the gunslinger class: Full BAB. Better skills. Martial weapons. Good reflex instead of will. Nimble to make up for only having light armor. Getting all of the Deeds. Bonus feats (in addition to deeds instead of choosing between them) for something that tends to require a LOT of feats. And, just not wanting to be a divine caster.

A cleric gets full spellcasting and channel energy, which greatly outweighs all of those. BAB and skills are fairly inconsequential trades because guns target touch AC and you get spells. Guns, deeds, and gun training is essentially the entire gunslinger class. One of the only reasons players take more than one level in gunslinger is to get gun training and the ability to free action reload muskets. Why take gunslinger when you can be a 9-level spellcaster with one of the best healing abilities in the game while having all the best features of the gunslinger class?

On that note, have you looked at the warpriest from ACG?


Gilarius wrote:
Gun training, bonus feats, deeds and full casting? That's much better than an actual cleric. It's better than an Eldritch Knight.

Yeah, gun training is really nice, but remember that you have to choose between bonus feats and deeds every fourth level starting at 3rd. You don't get both. Personally, I think losing domain bonus spells and their associated slots alone is a HUGE trade off. Just look at the Crusader archetype. All it gives up is one spell slot from each spell level and he gains the same number of bonus feats as the forsaken gun (if he chooses to not get any deeds after first level). Granted they're from a specific list for the Crusader, but it also lets him take fighter feats and most of them are ones such a character would want to take anyway. He also gets a nice(ish) little ability (I think it's kind of lame that it has to stay a touch spell for what it costs) and he gets to keep both of his domains.

Domains can be very powerful (or at least provide a lot of benefit). For example, with the Animal domain a cleric gets a fully functional animal companion with the same strength of a ranger's, but is able to choose any animal from the druid list. Also, all but one of the domain spells are spells that do not appear on the cleric list. I'd say each of these bonus spell slots are equivalent in power to a feat, if not more powerful. It's kind of like taking a special version of the Expanded Arcana, but for prepared casters and provides an additional spell slot on top of getting access to a new spell.

Also, being a firearm user is very feat intensive. A forsaken gun would have to put most of his feats into gun use if he wants to be good at it. Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot are just about required. Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Dodge, Mobility, and Deft Shootist are really good to have. A forsaken gun would be a full caster, but won't have much room for caster feats if he wants to be a good shooter.

Gilarius wrote:
At least base the grit points on charisma instead of wisdom!

I don't think that would change all that much for the class since a cleric would want to have a decent Charisma for channel energy anyway. I also just don't think it works that well flavor wise.

Gilarius wrote:
And ghost touch is melee only, so you're clonking ghosts with your barrel as an improvised weapon?

Interesting. I went into the Core Rulebook section of the PRD to review ghost touch for the ability and I didn't notice that it wasn't on the chart for ranged weapon abilities. There is nothing in the description of the ability noting that it only works for melee weapons. I checked the Ultimate Equipment entry for the ability after you said something and it says, "This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons and ammunition." I find that to be kind of odd that ammunition is included. If ammunition can be ghost touch, I don't see why you can't just make a ranged weapon ghost touch. Weird. Anyway, I could probably word it differently to make the ability still work, something like "the ammunition fired from the firearm is treated as ghost touch" or something, but I'm thinking I'll just ditch the ability all together and just make this a pure multiclass archetype. It was just my attempt to at least throw SOMETHING original in there, but I don't think anything like that is really necessary for my friend's needs.

Thanks for the comments. Sorry if it sounds like I'm just dismissing most of your criticism. I'm just trying to explain my reasoning behind why I made the archetype the way I did.

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So basically you can be a gunslinger with full BAB and no spell casting or you can be a medium BAB gunslinger AND have full cleric casting? Why would anyone ever choose the first option again? Totally broken.


Sellsword2587 wrote:
Might be easier and more thematically appropriate to make this an Inquisitor or Oracle archetype.
Cyrad wrote:
On that note, have you looked at the warpriest from ACG?

Any of those might work well, too. Although the theme my friend expressed to me was specific to being a cleric forsaking his god. An inquisitor or warpriest can probably be similarly flavored. Warpriest would probably be easiest. Swap medium/heavy armor and shield proficiency for firearm proficiency and force Focus Weapon to be a firearm and most of the work is done. Then ditch blessings and maybe some other abilities for gunslinger stuff similar to how I ditched domains for the cleric in this archetype.... I actually won't be too surprised if a firearm based warpriest is part of the final ACG, though it probably won't have the same god-forsaking flavor.

Cyrad wrote:
Why take gunslinger when you can be a 9-level spellcaster with one of the best healing abilities in the game while having all the best features of the gunslinger class?

I don't really have anything to say to that other than what I've already said. Personally, I think it's still worth playing a gunslinger even if this archetype is available. Being able to focus more on dexterity, not having to divide focus between being a good shooter and a good caster, having better defensive abilities, and I like having good skills. To me, spells does not make up for that. I've considered making him lose channel energy or at least weakening it, but I really do think losing all of his domain power is an even trade. It's a little hard to judge, though since there aren't any archetypes (at least in the RPG line) that drop both domains.


ShadowcatX wrote:

So basically you can be a gunslinger with full BAB and no spell casting or you can be a medium BAB gunslinger AND have full cleric casting? Why would anyone ever choose the first option again? Totally broken.

You don't have as many deeds or nimble. And 3/4 BAB makes weapon abilities less valuable (access to weaker combat feats; not as many attacks; of course less accuracy).

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It doesn't matter that a cleric loses a spell slot and domains. You cannot equate the power level of a spell slot with a feat because the power of a spell slot depends heavily on other factors. 9th-level spellcasting is the most powerful class feature in the game. Clerics also get channel energy, the best healing in the CRB. Bonus feats don't really matter in this equation because gunslingers don't get any bonus feats until 4th level anyway. Oh, and musket master gives rapid reload for free.

It doesn't help that the musket master and pistolero are better than the vanilla gunslinger. Being able to take an archetype from a different class is a pretty huge boon in itself.

Most people already consider cleric as better than martials simply because they can do many things other than fight, which they do pretty well. Giving them the best features of a martial class makes an already great class even better while martial class not worth playing.

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