Thassilonian Magic and Varisian Fortune Telling


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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So I just got the new Deluxe Harrow Deck and Harrow Handbook (haven't perused the book yet), and was reading the rule book included in the deck, and was struck by something I remembered from RoRL Sin Magic rules. The Runelords of Thassilon numbered only seven, because they dismissed Divination as not a true school of magic. There was no Runelord of Divination's Sin. They dominated the land now known as Varisia, and ruled over the ancestors of the Varisian and Shoanti peoples, as well as the giants.

As an interesting aside, Divination in 3.5 only required you to sacrifice one other school as opposed. This is dropped in Pathfinder, but RoRL was originally written for 3.5, so that might inform that design choice.

Thassilon was an empire of an Azlanti ruling caste, ruling castes of Varisian and Shoanti humans and giant slaves. The Shoanti were a warrior caste, and their quahs trace their lineage to the service of one of the seven Runelord's kingdoms. Their tattoos and symbols are evocative of Thassilonian runes, and like their Varisian neighbors they also maintain traditions and magic of tattooing and body modification, which the Runelords also practiced.

The Shoanti have had their link to ancient Thassilon well established, with their origin story and the quahs symbols. We know much less of the Varisian's ancestors time serving the Runelords. If the Shoanti were the warrior caste, likely the Varisian's forebears were the working class of that empire. Their cultural myth of the Cunning Wolf who led them from servitude in an empire of devils lends support to that belief. One thing that truly separates the Varisians, even from their neighbors the Shoanti, is their obsession and power over divination. A Varisian harrower, foretelling the future with her cards, is a stock character in Golarion. The Harrow Deck is a powerful divinatory tool, and especially dear to the Varisians.

If the Varisians truly were servants to Thassilon, and the Runelords were so dismissive of Diviniation as a school, what does it mean that the modern Varisians are such adherents of fortunetelling and Divination, even in the current fallen age of prophecy? Did they have this knowledge of Divination even in their days of servitude? Did they exploit this knowledge of the future to escape their bondage and the doom that destroyed Thassilon? Why exactly did the Runelords, some of the most powerful mages in history, totally dismiss a classical school of magic, and what kind of vulnerability did that leave them?


Well, the Varisian Tattoo feat also has all schools except Divination, pointing to a possible Thassilonian influence.

The Pathfinder Wiki notes that the Shoanti tribes resulted from the mixing of Varisians, Ulfen, and Kellids; presumably while these three ethnic groups were enslaved by Thassilonians.

So it may not accurate to say that Shoanti were enslaved by Thassilon, so much as the Shoanti are the descendants of these slaves, as the ethnic group might not have developed a distinct identity before the fall.

The Thassilonians didn't dismiss Divination, they included it in the Universal school. So, much like no mage can choose Universal as an opposed school, no Thassilonian could completely neglect it either. Maybe, rather than holding it in contempt, they considered it so primary to the study of magic that it was part of every mages' education?

As for why Varisians use divination practices, well, it could have been their mechanism for surviving the Age of Darkness. Wandering the shattered lands they had slaved in, they needed something to guide them in their migrations and keep them from danger. So the harrow readers became important positions in the clans.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The Thassilonian 'distaste' for Divination was primarily religious. The Chief Deity of Thassilon was Lissala & she considered Divination to be 'cheating', simplistically speaking. The last two adventures in the Shattered Star AP include a lot more information about Thassilon, Lissala & the ruling caste's interaction with the Shoanti & Varisian subject peoples.
Neither the Shoanti nor the Varisian's were 'slaves' so much as 'indigenous'. Again, simplistically speaking, but think more the natives of India when it was the 'Jewel of the British Empire'.


Lothar, I think you make an interesting point about Divination and Varisians.

It seems to me that it might have stemmed from a certain rebellion against the conventions of Sin Magic. Perhaps the Varisians took to divination as a magic that would be uniquely 'theirs.'

Peet


Samasboy1 wrote:

Well, the Varisian Tattoo feat also has all schools except Divination, pointing to a possible Thassilonian influence.

The Pathfinder Wiki notes that the Shoanti tribes resulted from the mixing of Varisians, Ulfen, and Kellids; presumably while these three ethnic groups were enslaved by Thassilonians.

So it may not accurate to say that Shoanti were enslaved by Thassilon, so much as the Shoanti are the descendants of these slaves, as the ethnic group might not have developed a distinct identity before the fall.

The Thassilonians didn't dismiss Divination, they included it in the Universal school. So, much like no mage can choose Universal as an opposed school, no Thassilonian could completely neglect it either. Maybe, rather than holding it in contempt, they considered it so primary to the study of magic that it was part of every mages' education?

As for why Varisians use divination practices, well, it could have been their mechanism for surviving the Age of Darkness. Wandering the shattered lands they had slaved in, they needed something to guide them in their migrations and keep them from danger. So the harrow readers became important positions in the clans.

I remember from some source, (I think the sin magic guide in RoRL Anniversary) that the Thassilonians actively disliked divination, but I would have to check that. I also said Shoanti more as a simplifier, rather than "the disparate ethnic groups who would one day become the Shoanti".

The lack of specialization is still telling, I think. The Runelords were the undisputed masters of school specialization. They counted no universalists among them, I believe. So no one would likely be as well versed in divination as any of the traditional schools.


Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:

The Thassilonian 'distaste' for Divination was primarily religious. The Chief Deity of Thassilon was Lissala & she considered Divination to be 'cheating', simplistically speaking. The last two adventures in the Shattered Star AP include a lot more information about Thassilon, Lissala & the ruling caste's interaction with the Shoanti & Varisian subject peoples.

Neither the Shoanti nor the Varisian's were 'slaves' so much as 'indigenous'. Again, simplistically speaking, but think more the natives of India when it was the 'Jewel of the British Empire'.

I'm definitely gonna have to read Shattered Star, haven't gotten to that yet. Nor have I finished all of RoRL...

I'm a little behind on my reading!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Lothar the Fellhanded wrote:
Samasboy1 wrote:

Well, the Varisian Tattoo feat also has all schools except Divination, pointing to a possible Thassilonian influence.

The Pathfinder Wiki notes that the Shoanti tribes resulted from the mixing of Varisians, Ulfen, and Kellids; presumably while these three ethnic groups were enslaved by Thassilonians.

So it may not accurate to say that Shoanti were enslaved by Thassilon, so much as the Shoanti are the descendants of these slaves, as the ethnic group might not have developed a distinct identity before the fall.

The Thassilonians didn't dismiss Divination, they included it in the Universal school. So, much like no mage can choose Universal as an opposed school, no Thassilonian could completely neglect it either. Maybe, rather than holding it in contempt, they considered it so primary to the study of magic that it was part of every mages' education?

As for why Varisians use divination practices, well, it could have been their mechanism for surviving the Age of Darkness. Wandering the shattered lands they had slaved in, they needed something to guide them in their migrations and keep them from danger. So the harrow readers became important positions in the clans.

I remember from some source, (I think the sin magic guide in RoRL Anniversary) that the Thassilonians actively disliked divination, but I would have to check that. I also said Shoanti more as a simplifier, rather than "the disparate ethnic groups who would one day become the Shoanti".

The lack of specialization is still telling, I think. The Runelords were the undisputed masters of school specialization. They counted no universalists among them, I believe. So no one would likely be as well versed in divination as any of the traditional schools.

Emboldened for Clarity. Technically that statement is correct. But at the same time incorrect. While the Runelords were all not only Specialists, but hyperspecialists in fact; Xin, the guy responsible for Thassilon & the Thassilonian Schools in the first place, was actually a Universalist.

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