No one seemed interested in the other post so...
You will gain a stat point every level. Every 4th level you gain a second stat point, this point for a second attribute.
Remove all stat prereq's for all feats.
Pet classes will have their pets attributes significantly nerfed to compensate (details not yet hashed out).
I would go with something pretty basic, like a strength-based fighter. That allows you to focus primarily on Strength and Constitution, and dump a lot of other stats and keep you almost as competitive as you would have been before.
So... you just get your racial modifiers and the 1 point past your straight 10's?
In that case, a Scarred Witch Doctor is really the only class SAD enough to work.
Dump strength and charisma to 7 and buy a 14 intelligence and 12 constitution and dexterity I think. Go Wizard, Witch, or Sage Sorcerer. Race? Most likely Tiefling. From there get con to 14 and then intelligence the rest of the way.
>face palm<…
I meant strait 10's then racials. Oops.
In other words, what would you build if stats were irrelevant? Is that what you are getting at?
Yeah kinda what I'm trying to get at. I think I'm failing.
I suggest you also give no points for dumping a stat, in that case.
Anything for a non-heroic campaign, where PCs are still fairly close in ability to average people of their own kind.
NPC with no heroic levels get 3 points. You'd be worse than the average expert/farmer/warrior at level 1.
Yeah, but the points per level ended up favoring SAD classes too much. 1 point in every stat every 4 levels is closer to what I wanted to accomplish.
NPC with no heroic levels get 3 points. You'd be worse than the average expert/farmer/warrior at level 1.
So you're playing the town f!~%-up?
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Just to confirm, you get all stats at 10, one stat at 11. At each level the 11 stat goes up one (12 at 2, 14 at 4, so on). At 4 you chose another stat, it goes to 11 and then goes up by one as well each level. So theoretically a martial with str chosen first and dex second at lvl 6 would be 16 str/12 dex/10 all other stats.
If that is the case, my obvious choice would be a barbarian in a race that chooses a stat to boost. Add the racial boost to str so at lvl 1 you get 13/10/10/10/10/10. Raging you get 17/10/14/10/10/10. Use a 2 hander or 1 hander/shield. At 4 either throw next stat into con or dex, depending on need for ac or hp/rage. I would personally go 2 hander with dex at 4. Decent hit/damage, which scales pretty well (30 base strength at lvl 20).
Daniel, yes you have the right idea with what I was saying. This experiment didn't work the way I was intending.
So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.
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Druid, or Nature/Lunar Oracle.
Boost caster stat, and focus completely on the companion.
As no martial will be able to function/survive, the companion will function as the the main martial.
Of course, focusing entirely on Diplomacy and/or Enchantment will work as well, and you can convince the Village Idiot to fight for you, as he will be a superior martial PC.
So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.
It doesn't. Caster's aren't powerful because they are SAD. Attributes have very little to do with it. Its the casting that makes them what they are.
Messing with the way attributes are gained doesn't change that.
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Why does this forum go into apoplexy whenever anything other than ONE MILLION point-buy is mentioned?
The DM's a troll!!!
Martials are useless!!!
Aliens are taking over the world!!!
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OP: what are you trying to achieve with this (and the other thread you mention)?
So, how does it change if you get 1 point in 5 attributes of your choice each 4 levels? You can switch which attribute doesn't get a point each time if you like.It doesn't. Caster's aren't powerful because they are SAD. Attributes have very little to do with it. Its the casting that makes them what they are.
Messing with the way attributes are gained doesn't change that.
It would weaken casters quite a lot.
At level 1 you start with something like all stats 10 except Int of 13.At level 4, 8, 12 the wizard can increase all but one of his stats by 1. Let's say he neglects charisma. At level 12-15 he would have Int of 16, and other stats (except charisma) 13, plus any bonuses for items. Any Save Negates spells he casts would be likely to fail.
On the other hand, these stats aren't great for martials either.
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+1 to five stats every two levels might work.
That's give people a 14 at level 2, a 16 at level 6, an 18 at level 10, and a 23 at level 20. Their other stats they cared about would all be three points lower or so, assuming they left one stat at 10.
This really screws people playing against type, though. Melee Halflings or Dwarf Wizards are pretty thoroughly screwed.
Recalculating skill points every two levels would also be pretty annoying.
Honestly, if the idea is to keep SAD classes less advantageous, just use a mandated, and pretty balanced, stat array, for example:
14, 14, 14, 13, 12, 10
That's 20 point-buy...but not very good for SAD classes. It'll do for most Martials, though, if not quite as ideally as a more focused one. It'll still be pretty unpleasant for those playing against type, of course.
For my own games, I do a significantly less extreme version of this by capping abilities at 16 before racial mods (and having no more than one stat lower than 10, and even that one no lower than 8) with 25 point-buy. That allows for two 16s and a 14, which helps MAD classes quite a bit, and keeps there from being any starting 20s, which restricts SAD ones a little.
This feels really clunky.
What are you trying to accomplish with this?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Why does this forum go into apoplexy whenever anything other than ONE MILLION point-buy is mentioned?
The DM's a troll!!!
Martials are useless!!!
Aliens are taking over the world!!!
----------------------------------------------
OP: what are you trying to achieve with this (and the other thread you mention)?
There is a pretty big difference between 'nothing less then a million points ruins the world' and the idea that characters would have some serious trouble functioning with a 1 point buy.
Its pretty factual that without some dex, con and strength, basic martial characters will struggle mightily. Imagine the fighter wasting with a 12-13 AC and a +1 to hit. He'd be less capable then the CR 1/4 goblin that is supposed to be a minor threat to him.
Low point buys, and even low stats favor certain kinds of characters vs others. And sure by the time you got to like level 12 you'd have some nice and well rounded stats...but thats a long way to go with being the bumbling idiot (by which I mean failing alot at your chosen task). And I am definately not the pay for play type. I like characters to actually work from the moment I start playing them.
What are you trying to accomplish with this?
The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.
Switching to the all 10's +1 was to tune it the opposite direction. Instead of giving more health it would cut the damage down. This also gave power back to racial stats and spell buffs.
What are you trying to accomplish with this?The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.
Switching to the all 10's +1 was to tune it the opposite direction. Instead of giving more health it would cut the damage down. This also gave power back to racial stats and spell buffs.
I'm still not sure "what you're trying to accomplish." Clearly you see a problem, but I don't see the problem you see.
Just as an example, "forcing placers to utilize stats they would typically ignore" doesn't really do anything of the sort, does it? If I want to play a wizard, giving me an 18 constitution gives me more hit points but doesn't force me to stand in the front lines with a sword in my hand, despite my 18 strength.
The all 10s similarly just makes characters less effective, but again giving a wizard an intelligence of 10 won't put a sword in her hands.
What are you trying to accomplish with this?The first goal was the avoidance of rocket tag. Started with all 18's thus forcing players to utilize stats they would typically ignore in order to focus on maxing out damage. If players are forced into more con, they will have more health and be able to take a hit.
Gee, that's easy. First, make you you have 4 encounters per day on average. Next, add a few mooks. No points back for Dumping. Max 16 in any stat at start- after racial. You're the DM, you can easily make 10 round combats.