Domains for clerics of an entire pantheon


Advice


How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?


JoeJ wrote:

How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

This would then be the same mechanically as not serving any deity. While this could and would certainly be the simplest of solutions there should also be be drawbacks to balance such a thing. Again there are such drawbacks in place in RAW but that is dull IMO.

For context sake... Why are they worshipping and receiving benefits, potentially, from a whole pantheon? I've never heard of a precedent for this in all of history. Even the Greeks would be splintered on their pantheon that they all acknowledged as to who was their patron. So much so that entire cities were dedicated or named after their patron. If I recall Aphrodite and Athena were the most accepted and most commonly known around the world but again those are individuals.


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Renegadeshepherd wrote:
JoeJ wrote:

How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

This would then be the same mechanically as not serving any deity. While this could and would certainly be the simplest of solutions there should also be be drawbacks to balance such a thing. Again there are such drawbacks in place in RAW but that is dull IMO.

For context sake... Why are they worshipping and receiving benefits, potentially, from a whole pantheon? I've never heard of a precedent for this in all of history. Even the Greeks would be splintered on their pantheon that they all acknowledged as to who was their patron. So much so that entire cities were dedicated or named after their patron. If I recall Aphrodite and Athena were the most accepted and most commonly known around the world but again those are individuals.

Actually, that was the norm for polytheists, at least in Europe. The standard fantasy trope of gods competing for worshipers is very much a product of the monotheist religions. Greek cities had one, or more often several, special patrons but they also sacrificed to the other gods. The Celtic (Druid), Norse and Slavic religions were similar; the local priest would sacrifice to whichever deity the situation or time of year called for.

However, the specific model I had in mind was the state sponsored Collegium Pontificum - the College of Pontiffs - in Ancient Rome.


I'd pick any 2 but lose the Favored Weapon unless there was a particular weapon that the whole pantheon supported.


I personally would do it one of two ways.

1. They worship the pantheon but they choose one deity of it to gain their domains and favored weapon from.

2. They pick the favored weapon of one deity and must choose one domain from that deity and one from another as long as they don't conflict(let's say the pantheon is giant deities and they have Lawful, Good, Evil, and Chaotic deities you can't say be NG and pick the Law and Chaos Domains) or if the two deities are at odds(like viking deities and taking some from Thor and Loki)


I would simply use the "If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations (aka the Pantheon) and abilities (subject to GM approval)." and no Favored Weapon - Done.

Shadow Lodge

Depends on how you want to play your pantheon but to start.

If you are a doing something like a Greek or Egyptian pantheon where it is a pantheon with a head god at the top I would say any 2 domains but make the favored weapon either the favored weapon of the head god or the one that best signifies and represents the pantheon and its motives.

You could also rule that certain domain combos cannot happen due to rivalries or irreconcilable differences between the 2 churches that offer them. Think like if Osiris and Set were in the same pantheon, they might be allies in making sure the sun comes up every day and apep doesn't eat it but one kind of chopped up the other trying to take his job so those 2 don't agree on much else.

The other thing to watch out for is players who just want to get certain domain weapon combos without living up to what a pantheon worshiper does. Like in 40k worshiping chaos undivided means you venerate all the chaos lords equally, showing only 1 or 2 support while using the boons of the other 2 is a sure fire way to get those other faiths (and their outsider servants) to quickly pull their favor.


Actually, check out the Sovereign Host from Eberron. It seems to be a similar concept of what you might be looking for.

Sovereign Host

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
JoeJ wrote:

How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

You go the Eberron route and treat the pantheon as a deity. You balance it out so that there isn't a compelling reason to go that way. There are a lot of pantheons that are ill-suited to this approach, such as the Greek Pantheon, the bulk of the old Forgotten Realms Pantheons, the Pantheon of Krynn, etc. when the individual members are too protective of their own turfs, too possessive of their clerics, or too much of an in squabbling.

In canon Golarion, the gods are so wrapped up in themselves, that no true pantheons exist.


I haven't bought any world-specific PF material, but from what little I've seen, Golarion looks like dozens of separate, essentially monotheistic religions with non-omnipotent gods.

I considered having the domains be determined by which temple a cleric is assigned to, but I suspect that a lot of PC clerics would object to having their domains change every time the high priest decides to swap people around.


I believe that certain books have some rules for pantheons. I don't have access to my books, but I believe that for exmaple the Dwarves of Golarion companion includes rules for what happens when you venerate the entire Dwarven pantheon and not just Torag (whom is the head of the Pantheon).

Also, the only real pantheons I know of are racial pantheons like Dwarf, Elf, and Kobold.

For the most part the major deities do not join together to form a pantheon as they are more concerned with their individual power and domains to work with others. Otherwise, we'd just see Team Good attacking Team Evil, which isn't what happens.


In my pantheon, the gods are pretty much all related to one another either by birth or by marriage. There are two "tribes" who fought a war, but that was long ago. There has been a truce for millennia, and the two groups are now too intermarried to go to war again (Like the Aesir and Vanir of Norse mythology). I have the creation story, but I'm still working on developing the mythology.

None of the gods in my world is genuinely good or genuinely evil, since none of the portfolios I came up with fit exclusively into one camp or the other. Alignment domains don't exist, and the dead generally all go to the god of death rather than to separate planes. (The souls of mortal beings never turn into either celestials or fiends; those beings have a completely different origin.)


If there is a pantheon where the gods have a collective intrest I would allow it, or at least the part of the pantheon with the gods that are most like minded in philosophies and standingpoint. Out of the 20 standard gods in goloria (which I guess is a pantheon), I wouldn't allow someone to worship Rovagug and any other (if any at all in this case) god who is good or lawful. I would at most allow all good and neutral gods for one cleric. Anymore than that seems contradicting for a cleric.

But since you seem to be making your own pantheon, I see no problem.

And btw, one can not compare these gods and beliefs to real life religon, they work very different from each other.


JoeJ wrote:

In my pantheon, the gods are pretty much all related to one another either by birth or by marriage. There are two "tribes" who fought a war, but that was long ago. There has been a truce for millennia, and the two groups are now too intermarried to go to war again (Like the Aesir and Vanir of Norse mythology). I have the creation story, but I'm still working on developing the mythology.

None of the gods in my world is genuinely good or genuinely evil, since none of the portfolios I came up with fit exclusively into one camp or the other. Alignment domains don't exist, and the dead generally all go to the god of death rather than to separate planes. (The souls of mortal beings never turn into either celestials or fiends; those beings have a completely different origin.)

If you're create an entire world yourself including your own deities, just make up the pantheon however you want.

Personally, I'd treat the panetheon as though it were a single divine entity. Give it the domains that you want to represent that pantheon, and a weapon that you think works and that's really all it needs.


JoeJ wrote:

How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

Make a list of all domains offered by the gods of the pantheon. Pick any two.

This is how Eberron did followers of the Sovereign Host.


Thanks everybody for the advice. Upon further thought, I've decided to go back to having them choose a patron deity but make the nature of the pantheon clear - many gods buy only 1 religion. A cleric's patron is a little bit like a patron saint in Catholicism - having an especially close relationship with one doesn't mean the others aren't venerated as well on the appropriate occasions.


There are several sample "pantheons" in Faiths and Philosophies...


The easiest example would be the "godclaw" pantheon. it has domains and a favored weapon. However you as a cleric don't get spells for worshipping a pantheon. You'd need to play another class like oracle or inquisitor.


JoeJ wrote:

Thanks everybody for the advice. Upon further thought, I've decided to go back to having them choose a patron deity but make the nature of the pantheon clear - many gods buy only 1 religion. A cleric's patron is a little bit like a patron saint in Catholicism - having an especially close relationship with one doesn't mean the others aren't venerated as well on the appropriate occasions.

The term Henotheism describes is the belief in and worship of a single God while accepting the existence or possible existence of other deities that may also be worshipped. D&D/PF campaigns tend to treat clerics as monotheistic worshippers of a single god, probably because monotheism is more familiar in Western culture. 1E Deities and Demigods provided pantheons, but 3E on tend to have religions more similar to monotheism.

It sounds like you're going to use the favored weapon of a particular god in the pantheon, and allow any domains offered by any of the gods in the pantheon. That sounds like a good approach. I wrote up mechanics for worshiping a pair of gods or a god and a legendary hero and customizing domain spell lists between the two, if you'd like to take a look PM me and I'll send them. They're part of a pdf titled 'Writing Natives Americans for Pathfinder and other RPGs.'

Dark Archive

JoeJ wrote:
How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

Gods & Magic suggested that dwarves could worship the entire pantheon, in addition to one of the specific gods. They could pray at the start of the day to swap out their normal Domains for any one Domain available to one of the gods of the pantheon.

Presumably, they'd pick two domains normally, and the favored weapon of the specific god they most identified with, but have the option when they prayed of setting aside both standard Domains for a single other Domain from another god in their pantheon.

It would make most sense for them to do this on specific holy days to other gods in their pantheon, but an adventuring cleric might find it useful to be able to access a specific Domain (at the cost of losing access to both of his normal Domains) in some situations.

I have no idea if that's still *officially* an option, or has gone the way of Orcish pantheists or clerics of Walkena or Juju Oracles, but it still serves as a useful option if you want to introduce a pantheist option in your own games.


JoeJ wrote:
How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?

I prefer the 'pick any 2' and pick any favored weapon approach, but I'm big on people creating their own deities ideals and allowing clerics of an ideal that work that way too, so I might be a little biased.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MrSin wrote:
JoeJ wrote:
How would you decide which domains are available for clerics that serve an entire pantheon rather than one specific deity? Could they just pick any two?
I prefer the 'pick any 2' and pick any favored weapon approach, but I'm big on people creating their own deities ideals and allowing clerics of an ideal that work that way too, so I might be a little biased.

Everyone has biases. For example I require both clerics, inquisitors, and paladins to worship a single patron diety, and Druids and Rangers to belong to a faith. In certain situations one may be a pantheonic cleric, but you will have a specific list of domains just like any other cleric to choose from.

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