Player #1 buys two 4th lvl "Scrolls of X" for 700gps each to use in a rare emergency. During play, such an emergency arises and he uses one of the scrolls.
Player #2 sees this and requests the other of those scrolls to be cast on him.
Can Player #2 offer 700gps to Player #1 for the other scroll thereby treating it as if Player #2 had made the purchase normally and Player #1 is now just borrowing it to cast it on #2?
This does not apply to anything with charges (such as players paying 15gps per charge off a wand). This is in regards to single use items such as scrolls or even potions.
Similarly if I have an Elixir of Swimming and someone else needs it, could we trade gold/Elixir? Or do I have to choose between losing gold or not helping out a teammate?
Thank you for the link. Missed that conversation. I'll have to read it through as time allows. My issue is not so much "I spent X on the party so I should get money back" as it is "Player #2 wants to use something I have and is willing to 'buy' it from me." I'll have to see if that is addressed in the link.
Thanks again.
Noted. Posted on that thread rather than rehash it here.
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In our area, we take the "lend an item to a player for the duration of the scenario" to allow things like "I'm lending you the scroll (by casting it on you), and you give me back a scroll at the end of the scenario." Mechanically, the borrowing players purchases the same scroll on their chronicle sheet and marks it used. The "lending" player leaves the scroll on their chronicle.
So far, it seems to have worked really well. And pretty soon, the borrowing player figures out that carrying scrolls of spells that you want someone else to cast on you is a really, really good idea.
On the other hand, in the past, there were apparently some issues with players essentially expecting/demanding that clerics (or other healers) should always supply consumable items (mostly scrolls) for healing or buffing the party, and then invoking the "no selling items/giving money" rule to stick the cleric with the bill for the whole party. I suspect the current approach evolved as a counter to that particular issue.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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with players essentially expecting/demanding that clerics (or other healers) should always supply consumable items (mostly scrolls) for healing or buffing the party
yep, that's some very unpleasant attitude. And IMO, it's as silly as expecting every player to spend prestige on a Wand of CLW.
What I expect from a healer is to use his class abilities to heal the party as is necessary. If he wants to use up consumables in addition, that's his choice.
Likewise, I expect a fighter to use his feats and attack as is most effective in a given situation, for example, but I wouldn't expect that fighter to continuously drink potions of Bull's Strength
Like joe said above, noone wants to feel like the charity pc of the party.
As a GM, I would also allow a solution like the one described by Dorothy, having the recipient of the scroll note the purchase and use of a scroll on his chronicle sheet.
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with players essentially expecting/demanding that clerics (or other healers) should always supply consumable items (mostly scrolls) for healing or buffing the partyyep, that's some very unpleasant attitude. And IMO, it's as silly as expecting every player to spend prestige on a Wand of CLW.
What I expect from a healer is to use his class abilities to heal the party as is necessary. If he wants to use up consumables in addition, that's his choice.
Likewise, I expect a fighter to use his feats and attack as is most effective in a given situation, for example, but I wouldn't expect that fighter to continuously drink potions of Bull's StrengthLike joe said above, noone wants to feel like the charity pc of the party.
As a GM, I would also allow a solution like the one described by Dorothy, having the recipient of the scroll note the purchase and use of a scroll on his chronicle sheet.
Andreas,
The problem with that attitude is that:
1) The Fighter's feats and weapon are, essentially, unlimited usage.
2) The Cleric's channels are strictly limited in quantity, and their spell slots are even more limited. And, in addition, you are further limiting their ability to contribute in other ways.
Do I cast bless, or save the spell slot so I can, yet again, cast another CLW on the so-called tank, instead of doing something besides being a healbot?
That CLW wand apiece means that the Cleric is not being limited in what he can do by the lack of resources in the party.
CLW or cast a "real" spell, risking that the fighter will die because I want to do something besides cast Cure spells? Or do I spend my precious PP on multiple CLW wands, because no one else wants to do it, so when we have a TPK, I am the only one who doesn't have the PP to get a raise dead?
Me? I feel that 2 PP apiece is a lot better solution than 12 PP for the Cleric, since it allows the CLeric to have PP left, and to do things other than be a healbot. And to have enough Charisma to burn precious feat slots on Selective Channel, along with having to limit his flexibility by having to spend more feat slots on Extra Channel, Improved Channel, etc.
If you want to run a pure healbot/support Cleric, great for you. But don't make every cleric out there have to be a healbot, instead of, say, that Dwarven Battle Cleric who is in there fighting next to the Fighter, instead of standing behind him casting CLW every round.
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yep, that's some very unpleasant attitude. And IMO, it's as silly as expecting every player to spend prestige on a Wand of CLW.
What I expect from a healer is to use his class abilities to heal the party as is necessary
Something you need to understand about healing: it will not keep up with the damage you take. Unless you are specced as a life oracle or channelbot mere class abilities will not be sufficient to keep up with the damage you take. Over the editions, healing has gone almost nowhere, while damage capacity has gone through the roof. Anyone else is going to have to spend the entire four hours doing NOTHING but give you heal spells... which will probably be less efficient AND less fun than throwing down silences and confusions, and will in all likelyhood still need to burn their WBL to heal you. In regular play the party can chip in for "group loot" so the healer doesn't have to do this, but in society play they're just flushing wand charge after wand charge down the drain of people don't pay for their own healing.
@ Dorothy. What you suggest is exactly what I'm aiming at. I don't expect every PC to have every scroll, potion, and wand that they may ever need for every adventure. And I don't expect one player to have to foot the bill because someone else missed something. Allowing PCs to "borrow" from each other in this way removes the blocks that stand in the way of teamwork. Because the last thing I want to have to choose between during a game is feeling Stingy or feeling Used.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
I'm not saying every healer PC has to cast only heal spells. What I'm saying is I am not expecting/demanding them to use expendables on me. If they themselves decide they need to do that to get a better play experience, they are welcome to do so. I am just saying I don't demand others to use anything they paid for on me. They're the ones who paid for it, so they should be the ones who decide when to use it and who will benefit.
I also don't demand a healer to use every available spell slot on healing. It's their character and they should know best how to contribute to a successful mission.
But I do expect a player who says he's playing a healer to use some amount of his class abilities to heal, just like I expect players who say their character is a damage dealer to deal some damage.
Also, by "as is necessary" I mean stuff like "don't throw a channel when only 1 character is injured" or "don't cast CLW when there's only 2 or 3 damage to be healed (unless it's on a level 1 wizard or something equally squishy)".
I still won't stop players from doing that, but that doesn't stop me from believing it's a waste of resources. As you said, class abilities are very limited and the healer wants to do something else besides healing.
Oh, and as tanks have already been mentioned, I also expect tanks to keep standing and not crying for the healer every other round.
So what I'm basically saying is, I expect people do the job they said they'd do. I don't care how they do it as long as the job is done. I don't tell people how to play their character (unless they specifically ask for my opinion on the matter), which includes spell selection and use of consumables.
I think Elbedor said he missed the ONGOING thread about all of this. There is really no need for two threads discussing this now, so anyone who wants to add anything lets add it to the already present discussion.
:)
When I posted the OP, I was unaware of that other thread. I have since read it and contributed my own comments. My initial question was how to handle one player "buying" something off of another player. That has been answered. (i.e. You can't technically, but there are GMs that would allow something akin to what Dorothy suggested.)
Any further contributions to such a discussion on my part will be happening in the other thread. :)
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying.
I'm not saying every healer PC has to cast only heal spells. What I'm saying is I am not expecting/demanding them to use expendables on me. If they themselves decide they need to do that to get a better play experience, they are welcome to do so. I am just saying I don't demand others to use anything they paid for on me. They're the ones who paid for it, so they should be the ones who decide when to use it and who will benefit.I also don't demand a healer to use every available spell slot on healing. It's their character and they should know best how to contribute to a successful mission.
But I do expect a player who says he's playing a healer to use some amount of his class abilities to heal, just like I expect players who say their character is a damage dealer to deal some damage.Also, by "as is necessary" I mean stuff like "don't throw a channel when only 1 character is injured" or "don't cast CLW when there's only 2 or 3 damage to be healed (unless it's on a level 1 wizard or something equally squishy)".
I still won't stop players from doing that, but that doesn't stop me from believing it's a waste of resources. As you said, class abilities are very limited and the healer wants to do something else besides healing.Oh, and as tanks have already been mentioned, I also expect tanks to keep standing and not crying for the healer every other round.
So what I'm basically saying is, I expect people do the job they said they'd do. I don't care how they do it as long as the job is done. I don't tell people how to play their character (unless they specifically ask for my opinion on the matter), which includes spell selection and use of consumables.
Andreas,
As long as you understand the difference between the statement, "I am a healer." as compared to the statement, "I am a Cleric.", as they do not necessarily mean the same thing.
Not all Clerics are healers, or speced to do very well at the healing. Low Charisma, so few channels, no selective; battle oriented instead of support builds, so they are in the front rank actibng as a beatstick, suing buff spells on themselves and the party.
Not all Oracles are healers, their "school" does a lot to determine their focus. Now, if you see an Aasimar Oracle of Life, you can probably bet that they are healing & support focused, but even that may not be a sure thing.
Heck, even Bards can be built as something besides, "I stand in the background and sing." builds.
But, onthe other hand, having a wand of CLW of your own means that you can be fairly sure that you will have the ability to get healed up between combats, since there are a lot of builds that can either use it outright, or have a chance of being able to UMD it fairly well.
Classes that, in general, can use a CLW wand without needing UMD:
Bard, Cleric, Druid, Inquisitor, Oracle, Paladin, Ranger, and Witch