The Build-A-Rogue workshop.


Advice

Silver Crusade

Post your rogue builds here and let's analyze them.

Rogue builds only please.


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Current Favorite:
CG Focused Study Human Rogue || 10 18 14 14 10 10 || Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Stealth ||5|| Bluff,Use Magic Device, Perception||3|| Secondary Skills(4); Climb, Diplomacy, Disguise, Linguistics(max -1), Swim(1 rank)
Traits: Resilient(+1 fort saves), Indomitable Faith(+1 Will)
1 |Deceitful, Skill Focus(Bluff)
2 |Finesse Rogue
3 |Combat Expertise
4 |Combat Trick(Improved Feint)
5 |Skill Focus(UMD)
6 |Bleeding Attack
7 |Combat Reflexes
8 |Fast Stealth, Skill Focus(Stealth)
9 |Quick Draw
10|Skill Mastery(Bluff, UMD, Stealth, Disguise, Acrobatics)
11|Greater Feint
12|Opportunist
13|Extra Rogue Talent(Crippling Strike)
14|Hard Minded
15|Great Fortitude
16|Skill Mastery(Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Climb, Linguistics), Skill Focus(Acrobatics)
17|Iron Will
18|Black Market Connections
19|Skill Focus(Diplomacy)
20|Rumormonger
Trickster(Surprise Strike)
Mythic Feats: Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Extra Path Ability(Combat Trickery), Combat Expertise, Quickdraw
Mythic Path: Longevity, Deadly Dodge, Vanishing Move, Mirror Dodge, Master of Escape, Precision Critical, Slayer’s Cyclone, Class Mimic, Sardonic Wit, Master Dilettante

Other one:
CN Half-Elf Rogue || 10 18 14 14 10 10 || Acrobatics, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Stealth ||5|| Bluff,Use Magic Device, Perception||3|| Secondary Skills(2); Climb, Diplomacy, Disguise, Knowledge(dungeoneering,local), Linguistics, Sense Motive, Swim
1 |Combat Expertise, Skill Focus(Bluff)
2 |Finesse Rogue
3 |Deceitful
4 |Combat Trick(Improved Feint)
5 |Skill Focus(UMD)
6 |Minor Magic(Prestidigitation)
7 |Arcane Strike
8 |Major Magic(Silent Image)
9 |Greater Feint
10|Skill Mastery(Bluff, UMD, Stealth, Disable Device, Acrobatics)
11|Extra Rogue Talent(Opportunist)
12|Familiar
13|Improved Familiar(Small Air Elemental)
14|Crippling Strike
15|Extra Rogue talent(Dispelling Attack)
16|Feat(Combat Reflexes)
17|Extra Rogue Talent(Hard to fool)
18|Unwitting Ally
19|Quick Draw
20|Skill Mastery
*If mythic*
Mythic Feats: Weapon Finesse, Arcane Strike, Improved Familiar, Combat Expertise, Quickdraw
Mythic Path: Longevity, Impossible Speed, Fleet Warrior, Precision, Precision, Limitless Range, Unstoppable Shot, Perfect Strike, Critical Master, Critical Master
At lvl 11 with a +1 agile rapier and 22 dex
Feint + Opportunist + Arcane Strike = 2 sneak attacks at +15 to-hit for 7d6+10
Flanking + Haste + Opportunist + Arcane Strike =4 sneak attack at +18/+18/+18/+13 to-hit for 7d6+10
(rough math for fighter to-hit = 11-3+2+2+6 = 18, rough math on damage 2d6+22)

Thread with builds if you can look past the flame


I guess this thread should be in advice.

The connotations for this being a general discussion are not pleasant.


Mammoth thread with builds throughout it

Silver Crusade

10th level Tiefling Rogue *The Shadow*

Str: 13
Dex: 22
Con: 12
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 5

HP: 10d8 + 10

AC: 22

Initiative: + 10

Fort: + 3 + 1 + 2 = + 6
Ref: + 7 + 6 + 2 = + 15
Will: + 3 + 2 + 2 = + 7 ( + 12 vs Enchantments)

Feats: Stealthy, Skill Focus: Stealth, Skill Focus: Perception, Weapon Focus (Kukri), Improved Initiative.

Rogue Abilities: Finesse Rogue, Bleeding Attack, Combat Trick (Piranha Strike), Fast Stealth, Skill Mastery (Stealth, Disable Device, Acrobatics, Perception, Appraise, Escape Artist, Sense Motive), Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense + 3, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack + 5d6.

Tiefling Abilities: Darkvision 60ft, 1/day Darkness, Cold + Electricity + Fire Resistance 5, + 2 to Bluff and Stealth.

Skills: Appraise: + 17, Acrobatics: + 19, Disable Device: + 29, Escape Artist: + 23, Knowledge: Dungeoneering + 19, Knowledge: Local + 19, Perception: + 21 (+26 finding traps), Sense Motive: + 20, Stealth: + 41, Sleight of Hand: + 19, Swim: + 14, Climb: + 14,

Attack: + 1 agile keen kukri: + 15/ + 10 1d4 + 7 15-20 x 2
Sneak Attack: + 17 1d4 + 7 + 5d6 15-20 x 2
Piranha Strike: + 13/+ 8 1d4 + 11 15-20 x 2
Sneak Attack with Piranha Strike: + 15 1d4 + 11 + 5d6 15-20 x2

Gear: +2 Mithral Shirt, +1 agile keen kukri, Ring of Chameleon Power, Belt of Incredible Dex + 2, Headband of Intellect + 2, Cloak of Resistance + 2, Ring of Maniacal Devices, Seducer’s Bane.

This mysterious stranger is a loner who will travel with companions that need his set of skills and abilities. He makes no friends but he is loyal with whom he works with.


Do ninjas count? They are an archetype of rogue.

Silver Crusade

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Do ninjas count? They are an archetype of rogue.

Just rogues.

Archtypes are okay. Ninja's are a full class.


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shallowsoul wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Do ninjas count? They are an archetype of rogue.

Just rogues.

Archtypes are okay. Ninja's are a full class.

Actually they are just an archetype. Just one with a more thorough write up.


Assuming this is not just another tedious bait thread and is actually a genuine attempt to have a reasonable discussion lets have a look shall we.

shallowsoul wrote:

10th level Tiefling Rogue *The Shadow*

HP: 10d8 + 10
AC: 22
Initiative: + 10

Initiative is fairly decent for your level and you are likely to go first. HP will be 63 which is pretty low especially with an AC of 22. The bog standard CR10 test monster is the Fire Giant. He is attacking you at +21/16/11 for 3d6+15 or at +18/13/11 for 3d6+24 with power attack. If you face a full attack you are looking at around 55 damage, around 65 if he power attacks. You are very squishy for a character who can expect to have to be in melee a lot. You had best hope you can kill things quickly.

Quote:

Fort: + 3 + 1 + 2 = + 6

Ref: + 7 + 6 + 2 = + 15
Will: + 3 + 2 + 2 = + 7 ( + 12 vs Enchantments)

CR10 saves run from around DC13 to 19. Fort and Will tend to be the worst as they can and will take you out of the fight. At +7 you are looking at anything from a 30-55% chance of simply being removed from the fight. Those are not great odds of success given the number of combat encounters you can expect to face such events tends to increase as you level. Your bonus against enchantment spells is only an extra +3 as seducer's bane adds a resistance bonus and so does not stack with the cloak. You would be better off with a clear spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder.

Quote:
Feats: Stealthy, Skill Focus: Stealth, Skill Focus: Perception, Weapon Focus (Kukri), Improved Initiative.

You lack shadow strike and so lose sneak attack any time your foe has any form of concealment. You are effectively useless in any fight which involves a bit of fog or mist or in which someone uses a level 1 obscuring mist spell.

Quote:
Rogue Abilities: Finesse Rogue, Bleeding Attack, Combat Trick (Piranha Strike), Fast Stealth, Skill Mastery (Stealth, Disable Device, Acrobatics, Perception, Appraise, Escape Artist, Sense Motive), Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense + 3, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Sneak Attack + 5d6.

I have never really understood why people value bleeding attack so much. Are combats really lasting so long that the relatively small bleed damage ever has any real impact?

Quote:
Skills: Appraise: + 17, Acrobatics: + 19, Disable Device: + 29, Escape Artist: + 23, Knowledge: Dungeoneering + 19, Knowledge: Local + 19, Perception: + 21 (+26 finding traps), Sense Motive: + 20, Stealth: + 41, Sleight of Hand: + 19, Swim: + 14, Climb: + 14,

Your skill values are decent but you lack any form of face skills and while +41 stealth is very high for your level you have no way of gaining invisibility and so are likely to be auto spotted by creatures with darkvision as soon as you break cover or concealment if you cannot reach more. Your trap detection and removal looks like it is in a good place. Not having UMD hurts you a lot and a +19 acrobatics will make it difficult to tumble into position. CMD at this level often tends to be in the low to mid 30's. You don't have any other way to guarantee sneak attack which may make life difficult. Stealth may be an option but is subject to an awful lot of table variation.

Quote:

Attack: + 1 agile keen kukri: + 15/ + 10 1d4 + 7 15-20 x 2

Sneak Attack: + 17 1d4 + 7 + 5d6 15-20 x 2
Piranha Strike: + 13/+ 8 1d4 + 11 15-20 x 2
Sneak Attack with Piranha Strike: + 15 1d4 + 11 + 5d6 15-20 x2

Assuming your numbers are right, which I haven't checked, in your best case scenario being able to full attack a flatfooted fire giant you are looking at about 34dpr. The giant has 142hp and has a good chance of killing you on its go.


Rogues are not proficient with Kukris so he has a -4 proficiency penalty.

+41 Stealth is very unnecessary. Drop the Ring of Chameleon Power and just add Shadow to your armor. +36 is still more than enough to beat most creature's perception on a 20. You'll get a tidy sum of gold back to shore up some of your weaknesses.

Likewise I recommend the Clear Spindle in a Wayfinder to shore up your Will Saves.

Shadow Lodge

andreww wrote:
I have never really understood why people value bleeding attack so much. Are combats really lasting so long that the relatively small bleed damage ever has any real impact?

I imagine it is so that when a rogue does get his/her lucky swing, he/she can at least contribute a little the next round. Its not as good as Offensive Defense though. Or Ninja Trick[Pressure Points]. I'd definitely swap it out for one of those.

Liberty's Edge

Hi, I was looking for advice on my rogue build, so this is super fortuitous. I made my first character a few weeks back (never used it), but it was terrible so I tried again. I'd be really appreciative if you could let me know if its decent or, if not, why not? The core of the build is Feinting with Intelligence, which takes forever to get online.

Level 1 Tiefling Rogue Knife Master:

Traits: Clever Wordplay (Bluff with Int Modifier); Fate's Favored (Luck Bonuses Increased by 1)

Ability Scores (15 Point Buy, Tiefling Bonuses Included: +2 Dex; +2 Int; -2 Cha)
Strength: 10
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 14
Intelligence: 16
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 5

Offense: Light Crossbow, Daggers, (Mace for DR/Blunt)
Melee Attack Bonus: 0; Ranged Attack Bonus: 3

Defense: Lamellar Cuirass
AC: 17; Flat-Footed: 14; Touch: 13
Fortitude: 2; Reflex: 5; Will: 1
Resist Fire/Ice/Shock 5

Feat/Talent Progression:
1 Armor of the Pit
2 Combat Trick: Combat Expertise
3 Improved Feint
4 Finesse Rogue +DEX
5 Blind Fight
6 Minor Magic: Acid Splash
7 Moonlight Stalker
8 Major Magic: Shield +DEX
9 Moonlight Feint
10 Feat: Greater Feint
11 Two Weapon Fighting
12 Weapon Training: Daggers +DEX
13 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
14 Dispelling Attack
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
16 Crippling Strike +DEX
17 Moonlight Master
18 Redirect Attack
19 Quick Draw
20 Another Day +DEX

For damage, I take Improved Feint at level 3 and an Agile weapon asap. I hope this will be decent, though I don't expect crazy damage output. My offense starts to look better only around level 10. At that point, with high Bluff scores and a Headband of Ninjitsu all I need is concealment to land multiple Xd8 sneak attacks per round. A Maw-or-Claw bite attack and two-weapon fighting should prevent my offense from stagnating later on.

Defense is better, though AC is not as high as I wish. Unfortunately, with 10 Strength I'm at the limits of carrying capacity until more money is available. A Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier comes as quickly as possible (3k, +2AC) and also a MW Buckler. With Jingasa and Buckler my level 4 AC might be around: 10+DEX4+ARMOR2+SHIELD1+NA2+LUCK2=21AC. Mage Armor makes it 23AC most of the time. For a best case scenario with Shield, Ring of Protection1, and Amulet of Natural Armor1, I figure an upper limit around: 10+DEX4+ARMOR4+SHIELD4+NA2(+1)+LUCK2+DEFL1=28AC. Later on comes a Luckstone (20k) for 2 to all Saves (and SkillChecks).

It's my second attempt at a character and I still have never played, so please let me know if this is reasonable. Im looking forward to my first campaign and don't want to die in the first session. Do I have a decent chance of surviving the first few levels? Any pointers? Thanks alot!


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
shallowsoul wrote:
Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Do ninjas count? They are an archetype of rogue.

Just rogues.

Archtypes are okay. Ninja's are a full class.

Actually they are just an archetype. Just one with a more thorough write up.

Yep. Same as Samurai.


andreww wrote:

I have never really understood why people value bleeding attack so much. Are combats really lasting so long that the relatively small bleed damage ever has any real impact?

Ours do. It greatly depends upon your table, note the average length is about 5-6 rounds. Ours get more like 10.


DrDeth wrote:
andreww wrote:

I have never really understood why people value bleeding attack so much. Are combats really lasting so long that the relatively small bleed damage ever has any real impact?

Ours do. It greatly depends upon your table, note the average length is about 5-6 rounds. Ours get more like 10.

I agree with this statement whole heartedly. If you have relatively short combats, lasting only 5 or 6 rounds bleed effects become much less valuable. It's also less valuable when everyone uses the "focus fire" tactic. If an enemy is only attacked for two rounds before succumbing it wasn't of much use to stick him with bleed. He only takes the damage once before hes gone.

And focus fire is generally an optimal strategy so...


This again. All the same players too.


On the Tiefling Rogue I would definitely suggest some sort of invisibility doodad that allows you to break the line of sight and hide again. With my rogue I picked up a wand of Vanish CL2. Gave me 2 rounds of invisibility which is all I ever really needed to get out of dodge (if need be) or get into position for more sneak attack. A Wand like that is only 1500 gp (750 if you have a wizard in the party who can make one for you) and has 50 charges.

I agree with Andeww that not having Use Magic Devise is detrimental. The DC to activate a wand is 20, whether it is a level 1 spell or level 9. Not hard to do, especially at higher levels. The problem is that by nuking your charisma you ensure that you really have to dump a bunch of points into that skill to make it viable.

The only other easy use solution is potions then. Again potion of vanish CL 2 is only 100gp (50 if you have an alchemist in the party). Cheep enough at high levels to have a couple though not as cost efficient as a wand.

On a side note: the consistency with which people nuke their charisma has always been a personal pet peeve of mine. I would highly suggest something more than a 5 because if you were to role play that sort of charisma correctly you should be either actively offensive to just about any character you meet, or so horribly inept at conversation that no character wants to pay attention to you. This can be hilarious from a player standpoint and create a very beloved character (one of my orc barbarian characters leaps to mind) but you should realize that your character should never effectively say anything epically bad-ass and most of his statements should leave people wondering why your character even bothers to open his mouth.


Would taking a ki pool for a rogue be a good investment to get the vanishing trick, shadow clone, or any other ninja trick? It would seem that the vanishing trick would allow you to get sneak attack damage more often and the shadow clone would help with your survivability.


Marthkus wrote:
Mammoth thread with builds throughout it

A lot of the builds are summarized in a doc by the OP near the end of the thread.

Shadow Lodge

Four rogue builds here: Guide to the Builds

Silver Crusade

Here's a build I've been working on. I'm still tinkering with the build so I will post updated versions.

“The Fake Wizard” 10th level Human Rogue “Jack”

Str: 7
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 22
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

AC: 18 (22 when using Shield from staff)

Initiative: + 2

HP: 10d8

Traits: Mathematical Prodigy, Classically Schooled

Fort: + 6
Ref: + 12
Will: + 7 (+ 12 vs enchantments)

Feats: Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, Arcane Blast, Scribe Scroll, Forge Ring.

Rogue Abilities: Sneak Attack + 5d6, Trapfinding, Trap Sense + 3, Evasion, Minor Magic (Detect Magic 3/day), Major Magic: (True Strike 2/day), Combat Trick: (Weapon Focus: Ray), Bleeding Attack, Skill Mastery: (Bluff, Use Magic Device, Perception, Disable Device, Diplomacy, Stealth, Spellcraft, Disguise), Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Skills: Appraise: + 20, Bluff: + 17, Climb: + 11, Diplomacy: + 17, Disguise: + 17, Escape Artist: + 15, Knowledge: Arcana + 21, Perception: + 15, Sense Motive: + 15, Stealth: + 15, Spellcraft: + 21, Use Magic Device: + 23, Swim: + 11.

Gear: Headband of Mental Prowess + 2 (Int and Cha), Minor Ring of Spell Storing (3 True Strike spells), Ring of Chameleon Power, 2 x Wand of Scorching Ray (7th level), Wand of Cure Serious Wounds, Staff of Minor Arcana, Belt of Incredible Dex + 2, Wand of Create Pit (10th level), + 2 Mithral Chain Shirt, Wand of Invisibility (10th level), Hand of the Mage, Wand of Lesser Restoration (10th level), Seducer’s Bane, Cloak of Resistance + 3.

Scrolls: Scroll of Teleport, 3 x Scroll of Fly,(Various 1st level scrolls).

Scorching Ray (2 rays) + 10 (touch attack) 4d6 fire per ray.
Scorching Ray (2 rays) + Sneak Attack: + 12 (touch attack) 4d6 fire + 5d6 + 5 (Bleed).

Arcane Blast: + 10 (touch attack) 3d6 damage.
Arcane Blast + Sneak Attack: + 12 (touch attack) 3d6 + 5d6 + 5 Bleed.

Silver Crusade

I will just change the Tiefling rogue's weapon to a Rapier and increase his damage to a d6 instead of a d4.


shallowsoul wrote:

Here's a build I've been working on. I'm still tinkering with the build so I will post updated versions.

“The Fake Wizard” 10th level Human Rogue “Jack”

Str: 7
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 22
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

AC: 18 (22 when using Shield from staff)

Initiative: + 2

HP: 10d8

Traits: Mathematical Prodigy, Classically Schooled

Fort: + 6
Ref: + 12
Will: + 7 (+ 12 vs enchantments)

Feats: Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Skill Focus: Use Magic Device, Arcane Blast, Scribe Scroll, Forge Ring.

Rogue Abilities: Sneak Attack + 5d6, Trapfinding, Trap Sense + 3, Evasion, Minor Magic (Detect Magic 3/day), Major Magic: (True Strike 2/day), Combat Trick: (Weapon Focus: Ray), Bleeding Attack, Skill Mastery: (Bluff, Use Magic Device, Perception, Disable Device, Diplomacy, Stealth, Spellcraft, Disguise), Improved Uncanny Dodge.

Skills: Appraise: + 20, Bluff: + 17, Climb: + 11, Diplomacy: + 17, Disguise: + 17, Escape Artist: + 15, Knowledge: Arcana + 21, Perception: + 15, Sense Motive: + 15, Stealth: + 15, Spellcraft: + 21, Use Magic Device: + 23, Swim: + 11.

Gear: Headband of Mental Prowess + 2 (Int and Cha), Minor Ring of Spell Storing (3 True Strike spells), Ring of Chameleon Power, 2 x Wand of Scorching Ray (7th level), Wand of Cure Serious Wounds, Staff of Minor Arcana, Belt of Incredible Dex + 2, Wand of Create Pit (10th level), + 2 Mithral Chain Shirt, Wand of Invisibility (10th level), Hand of the Mage, Wand of Lesser Restoration (10th level), Seducer’s Bane, Cloak of Resistance + 3.

Scrolls: Scroll of Teleport (562), 3 x Scroll of Fly (562), (Various 1st level scrolls).

Scorching Ray (2 rays) + 10 (touch attack) 4d6 fire per ray.
Scorching Ray (2 rays) + Sneak Attack: + 12 (touch attack) 4d6 fire + 5d6 + 5 (Bleed).

Arcane Blast: + 10 (touch attack) 3d6 damage.
Arcane Blast + Sneak Attack: + 12 (touch attack) 3d6 + 5d6 + 5 Bleed.

Interesting, looks like this guy "has an app for that".


'Iconic' rogue

Spoiler:
Focused Study Human Scout Rogue 17 / Horizon Walker 3
(rog 6 / HW 3 / rog +11)

str 16, dex 32 (7+2r), con 20 (5), int 16, wis 20 (3), cha 20 (5)
+5 dex (level), +6 all (gear), +4 dex, +1 wis (book/wish)

traits: heirloom weapon (option 2; scimitar) / militia

rogue talents:
2 - Combat Trick (Dervish Dance)
4 - Trap Spotter
6 - Minor Magic (Detect Magic)
11 - Offensive Defense
13* - Feat (Dimensional Savant)
15* - Opportunist
17* - Skill Mastery (acrobatics, disable device, [face skill of choice], perception, sense motive, stealth)
19* - Improved Evasion

feats:
1 - Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus (stealth)
3 - Endurance
5 - Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 3)
7 - Hellcat Stealth
8 - Skill Focus (perception)
9 - Dimensional Agility
11 - Dimensional Assault
13 - Dimensional Dervish
15 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Shadow 9)
16 - Skill Focus (UMD)
17 - Dampen Presence
19 - Arcane Strike

gets dex to damage at level 2, HiPS for light/shadow/blind(sense/sight), can flank with himself and gets a free attack per round (via opportunist--you are your own ally)

can both detect and disable magical traps, is (really) good at all the usual skills, and adheres fairly nicely to the dextrous/charming/intelligent rogue people seem to envision when seeing the class.

I mean sure you could just play an archaeologist bard, but whatever.

- - - - - - - - - -

alternatively you could run:

[any race] Rogue X

traits: heirloom weapon (option 2; scimitar) / ???

talents:
2 - combat trick (dervish dance)

feats:
1 - Weapon Finesse
3 - Nature Soul
5 - Animal Ally

bam, you've become SAD and have a full-progression flanking buddy at 5th level (or earlier, depending on race choices like human)

no more complaints from teammates who don't wanna go out of their way to help the rogue use ITS MAIN COMBAT FEATURE (which is needlessly restrictive).

Liberty's Edge

What if your scimitar breaks? No more Dervishing, right? Agree about the restrictiveness.


You mean you DONT keep a spare weapon on-hand for just such an occasion? playing with only one (very shiny and constantly enhanced) weapon is just BEGGING for it to get stolen or destroyed.

iirc, damaging a magical weapon requires an enhancement bonus equal or greater than the weapon itself's enhancement bonus, on TOP of the bonuses to HP/hardness it gets.

also-also, the broken conditon doesn't make it not a scimitar anymore--it just imposes a penalty to attacking with it. destroyed however, does (if memory serves)

Liberty's Edge

I meant for the weapon proficiency, which is also a requirement of dervish. So a spare scimitar is -4 for unproficient, and uses your +3 StrengthModifier on attack and damage rolls, rather than the +11 DexterityModifier. Or do you have proficiency from something and Im just missing it? Sorry if thats the case.

Grand Lodge

Well this one's currently in play in PFS, let's get some input.

Sothe, Enforcer of the Society:

Half-Orc Thug/Scout Rogue 3

Str:18, Dex:14, Con:12, Int:11, Wis: 10, Cha:12

Traits: Blade of Mercy(Sarenrae), Fate's Favored
Racial Traits:Subbed Ferocity for Sacred Tattoo from ARG

1:Enforcer
2:Weapon Focus Talent-Falchion
3:Initially leaned towards Power attack, but now thinking I should sub it out for something else. Was actually leaning towards extra rogue talent for Offensive Defense oddly enough, but unsure. Maybe Skill Focus: Perception or UMD. Additional traits is also very strong. Lots of unsure on this one. And looking forward~
4: Intimidating Prowess Talent
5: Dazzling Display
6: Combat Talent(Cornugon Smash)(Will change if I don't pick up power attack)
7: Gory Finish
8: Offensive Defense or Assault Leader Maybe
9: Shatter Defenses

Skills~
Acrobatics+8, Climb+6, Disable Device+10, Intimidate+14, Know:Dung+8, Know:Local+8, Perception+8, Stealth+8, Survival+4, Swim+4, UMD+7

Gear: Leather Lamellar, Mstrwrk Falchion, Masterwork tools for various skills, Sunrod, Alchemist Fire, CLW Wand, +4 Comp Shortbow, Wand of Shield, Sheathe of Vigor, Potion of Cure Blindness/Deafness, Potion of Touch of the Sea, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds

I know this isn't the rogueist of rogues, but PFS is very heavily structured around combat. The build doesn't really start rolling until level 4, when I pick up a magic item and intimidating prowess my intimidate goes up by 10 to 24. From there I can intimidate quite a few things twice. Going to also pick up a wand of enlarge person I think. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Liberty's Edge

I like it. When I was considering a Dazzling Display/Shatter Defenses build, I came across:

Violent Display:
"When you land a successful sneak attack or confirm a critical hit against a creature with a weapon with which you have Weapon Focus, you can use Dazzling Display as an immediate action." (Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Moon (2013), Paizo Publishing)
;and
Motivating Display:
"Whenever you use Dazzling Display to demoralize foes, you can motivate your allies to better serve you. In addition to possibly demoralizing foes within 30 feet, your Intimidate check while using Dazzling Display also applies to allies within 30 feet who can see you. The DC for this effect is the same as it would be to demoralize your allies. Each ally so affected gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and skill checks for the duration that it would normally be shaken."(Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Moon (2013), Paizo Publishing)
.

With Spring Attack as a Thug/Scout you could in one turn move, get an automatic sneak attack for 1)extended Shaken on all enemies, 2)buff on all allies, and 3)Sicken on the direct target, before finishing your move action by taking a few steps back to safety.

Of course you have to be a Weretiger(kin) or "associated with" them. I dont know if you could just be like: "some of my best friends are Fanglords!" Just a thought. Spring Attack, though, seems to be made for a Scout.


Romon was a pretty good all-arounder who did all right until about 7th level. Then the martials starting outpacing him. That's why he's got a level of fighter and I plan on adding one more someday.

He was originally conceived as a fast-talking conman/second story man. He did all right as the party face until we added a paladin and a bard around 4th level. That kind of killed that contribution to the party in diplomacy although it took a while for me to realize he'd been replaced. So around 6th level I thought I'd try to up his combat capability via the feint route. (One reason for this was that he wasn't getting opportunities for sneak attacks very often. Quarters were too cramped to move into position, or by the time he got in position, the party had massacred the enemy.) Feint has been disappointing, so I headed for a kiting sort of build. My problem may just be that I have never stuck with a concept long enough.

Any advice you can give me on where to take him next would be appreciated.


None of the above.

Make a rogue Ratfolk and build as a knifemaster while your friend builds as a Scout rogue using saps (taking Sap Adept feat and then Sap Master to roll 2x sneak die).

Ratfolk can take up the same square and if you both take Shadowdancer you can hide in plain sight in each other's shadows ;)

Teamwork feats would work best in this situation, for example, the Knifemaster can take Coordinated Charge so that when the Scout charges an enemy to deal sneak damage the knifemaster gets to charge the same foe. If the Scout takes Distracting Attack rogue talent, the knifemaster can deal his sneak damage on the charge.

So many benefiting rogue talents, teamwork feats, and tricks to help the duo demolish their opponent with subterfuge and trickery. Would be awesome to coordinate with a friend before a campaign to play the duo, or even make it a rogue/barb duo, rogue/fighter duo, etc.


Gooooldig wrote:
I meant for the weapon proficiency, which is also a requirement of dervish. So a spare scimitar is -4 for unproficient, and uses your +3 StrengthModifier on attack and damage rolls, rather than the +11 DexterityModifier. Or do you have proficiency from something and Im just missing it? Sorry if thats the case.

heirloom weapon option 1 (not option 2, error on my part) gives proficiency for it. it's the only reason i have it for the build.

Liberty's Edge

My understanding is that heirloom weapon gives you proficiency with just that one particular weapon, not with all weapons of that class. If Im right about that, then I dont think it counts towards dervish dance's prerequisites either, because you dont have proficiency with scimitars, just proficiency with A scimitar. Kinda silly and Im not 100% certain, but thats what I had understood and a quick glance in a couple of other threads seems to show similar thoughts.

Shadow Lodge

Bashy McScaresalot:
Half-Orc Skulking Slayer Scout 10
Stats:
Str16[+2Race]
Dex16[+2Levels]
Con14
Int14
Cha10

Traits:
Shoanti Tattoo
Armor Expert

Feats:
1:Bludgeoner
2:Weapon Focus[Earthbreaker]
3:Sap Adept
4:Intimidating Prowess
5:Sap Master
7:Dazzling Display
8:Shatter Defenses
9:Violent Display

Rogue Talents:
2:Weapon Training
4:Strong Impressions
6:Offensive Defense
8:Combat Trick
10:Skill Mastery[Acrobatics, Stealth, Intimidate, Bluff, Use Magic Device]

Skills
*Intimidate+22
*Use Magic Device+16
*Bluff+16
*Diplomacy+16
*Stealth+16
*Acrobatics+16
*Knowledge Local+15
*Knowledge Dungeoneering+15

Gear:
+2 Mithral Breastplate
Circlet of Persuasion
+2 Limning Earthbreaker
+2 Amulet of Natural Armor
+2 Ring of Protection
+2 Cloak of Resistance
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
+2 Belt of Giant Strength

AC=25
HP=83
Saves:
*Will+5
*Fort+7
*Ref+11
Init+2
Attacks
*+2 Limning Earthbreaker +14/+9[2d6+8]
**Nonlethal Sneak Attack +14/+9[2d6+6+5d8+5AC+Dazzling Display Immediate Action]
***V. Flat-Footed AC +14/+9[2d6+6+10d8+20+5AC+Dazzling Display Immediate Action]

Here is a try at a Skulking Slayer Scout with Sap Adept and Master. Not the best, not terrible. I have a similar rogue to this one, though the doesn't bother with Sap Adept/Master[didn't know about the trick when I started].

Digital Products Assistant

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Removed a post. This thread isn't doesn't appear to be about winning or losing, please try to keep feedback constructive, rather than making personal jabs.

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