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Just going off of base non-magical mundane weapons, but including all proficiency types, which weapons are great? Which are terrible? Are there any weapons that you consistently build a specific class around, and weapons that just clog up the weapon list in the book with their highly situational uselessness? Have you ever come up with ideas for making a terrible weapon useful?
For example, the Lucerne Hammer is great. But I see a lot of hate for daggers, and starknives seem terrible.
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Nine times out of 10 exotic weapons aren't worth the feat. And that's being generous.
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Fauchard and falcata are both very good exotic weapons. You can get EWP for free as a half elf with the alternate trait ancestral arms, reducing the feat tax.
Daggers aren't all that bad since they are available to almost everyone, but can be made pretty good with the river rat kingmaker campaign trait coupled with rogue knife master archetype for d8 sneak attacks-- I know, I know, rogues are terrible, but still.
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The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.
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As far as the super-popular end; greatswords, longswords and longbows are still leading the pack. There's some affection shown to glaives and greataxes; dwarven war-axes seem to lead bastard swords slightly for the dedicated sword-and-board types. Javelins and morningstars are the front-runners in the simple weapon category.
Testify.
Long swords may have fallen from their AD&D perch, but they are still one of the most practical weapons you can use. Pretty good damage, okay crit range, most people can use them, they occur as magic item drops a lot. They can be used 2 handed, which is vital. Sword Scion gives Weapon Focus as a Trait.
There is love for the Scimitar but mainly because of curious Dervish Dance stuff and the good crit. Frankly, they too come up in the 'cool sword' category, and being mechanically good is the cherry on top.
For simple weapons I like the Club, honestly. It's free, you can use it 2 handed, you can even throw the thing at a push. I'd rate it higher than a staff for Druids and Wizards.
OP, why hate for Daggers? If my PC is allowed to use one, he has one tucked into his belt. There has to be an extremely good reason you wouldn't want an emergency utility knife on you. You can have it Cold Iron for a couple of GP more. Adventurers ought not to leave the house without a dagger tucked somewhere.
Daggers have plenty of purpose. Even if you aren't a knife master rogue, everyone should have a dagger just in case. They are just too versatile and cheap to not have. Two examples:
1. The party has to climb an ice tower from the outside. Most of the party uses create water to create artificial steps out of ice which takes forever. The Fighter just pulls out two daggers and starts climbing. He got there way before us.
2. Different campaign. The Dwarven Fighter gets swallowed whole by a dire crocodile. He can't use his greataxe and has no daggers. He is stuck in there. Luckily the party cut him out before he died. If he had a dagger, he could have cut himself out.
Great weapons: Greatsword. Better average damage than the Greataxe and Earth breaker.
Still always have a hammer of some kind because of DR/bludgeoning. You ain't impressing the lich with your longsword.
Lance. Situational but does a ton of damage.
Composite Longbow. There is no need to take any other kind of bow if you have proficiency in this bad boy.
There are plenty of "bad" weapons that aren't as good but almost every non-exotic weapon is viable if you build around it. This usually means it's limited to fighters though.
To put it another way, there's no "Truenamer" of Pathfinder weapons.
To put it another way, there's no "Truenamer" of Pathfinder weapons.
Yeah, in game if your optimizing a lot get blown away. Nodachi for example is pretty high up there for 2 handed weapons, with most weapons kind of just... meh, behind it, unless you really want a particular special quality.
The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.
If you're playing an archer, it's bad.
I'm playing as a 2nd level sorcerer with good Dex. It's an OK weapon for conserving spell slots. (Less good when I want to fire it more than once per battle.)| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.If you're playing an archer, it's bad.
I'm playing as a 2nd level sorcerer with good Dex. It's an OK weapon for conserving spell slots. (Less good when I want to fire it more than once per battle.)
I prefer a light crossbow personally. In case I need to fire twice.
Me too, but my previous character had a light crossbow and I wanted to be different. For a weapon which allows me to do up to 10 damage in the first round with no skills whatsoever, I think 'worst ever' is an exaggeration.
Fauchard and falcata are both very good exotic weapons. You can get EWP for free as a half elf with the alternate trait ancestral arms, reducing the feat tax.
But it replaces Skill Focus... which is a feat... so it's still a kinda tax, sort of!
But it replaces Skill Focus... which is a feat... so it's still a kinda tax, sort of!Fauchard and falcata are both very good exotic weapons. You can get EWP for free as a half elf with the alternate trait ancestral arms, reducing the feat tax.
It's an opportunity cost. You could have +2 Will save instead.
To put it another way, there's no "Truenamer" of Pathfinder weapons.Yeah, in game if your optimizing a lot get blown away. Nodachi for example is pretty high up there for 2 handed weapons, with most weapons kind of just... meh, behind it, unless you really want a particular special quality.
Is spike chain not a reach weapon anymore that can also strike adjacent foes?
If so, the crane wing nerf is irrelevant. That's some grade A BS. That will be house ruled away in my games. I blame SKR for this. He seems to be at the center of every ruling I've had issues with. /rant
EDIT: Did a quick google search. ALL OF MY RAGE!!! *rant* *rant* It's one thing to nerf a splat book feat line, it's another to nerf a decent martial option from 3.5 that's in the CRB.
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It's a wee bit off-topic, but if you have two characters give one something with high crit (a scythe, specifically) and another with high crit range. Throw in the critical feat "Butterfly's Sting" and "outflank" and then every time the guy with the kukri crits, the bad guy takes a crit from the scythe.
It's a bit high on the feat tax considering you're doing it with 2 characters, but boy if it isn't fun.
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Is spike chain not a reach weapon anymore that can also strike adjacent foes?To put it another way, there's no "Truenamer" of Pathfinder weapons.Yeah, in game if your optimizing a lot get blown away. Nodachi for example is pretty high up there for 2 handed weapons, with most weapons kind of just... meh, behind it, unless you really want a particular special quality.
Yep, they changed that way back for the CRB's release. Came with a statement saying that exotic weapons were exotic for being exotic rather than power. Cemented an idea that the game wasn't about balance for some people.
Yep, they changed that way back for the CRB's release. Came with a statement saying that exotic weapons were exotic for being exotic rather than power. Cemented an idea that the game wasn't about balance for some people.Is spike chain not a reach weapon anymore that can also strike adjacent foes?To put it another way, there's no "Truenamer" of Pathfinder weapons.Yeah, in game if your optimizing a lot get blown away. Nodachi for example is pretty high up there for 2 handed weapons, with most weapons kind of just... meh, behind it, unless you really want a particular special quality.
Wow, I haven't played with one but I figured the favored weapon of a god wouldn't be so bad. I didn't play 3.5 (unless a few levels on DDO counts) so I don't know how good it used to be but the spiked chain doesn't look that horrible to me. Might even be decent for a casting focused Zon cleric.
By "Truenamer" I mean so awful it literally does not function they way it was intended to and only gets worse as you level. Not because it loses compared to the wizard/druid/etc., but because it's power doesn't scale at the same or better rate as the DC.
From what you described spiked chain is more like the CW Samurai. Just trash. You can use it but there are far better options even for what it was intended to do. Spiked chain < any other basic cleric weapon for Zon worshipers.
It's a wee bit off-topic, but if you have two characters give one something with high crit (a scythe, specifically) and another with high crit range. Throw in the critical feat "Butterfly's Sting" and "outflank" and then every time the guy with the kukri crits, the bad guy takes a crit from the scythe.
It's a bit high on the feat tax considering you're doing it with 2 characters, but boy if it isn't fun.
I played as the Scythe member of that contingent once. Wouldn't you know it, the combo never happened. It was from about levels 5 to 8, so we weren't high enough to get Improved Critical for the other guy. (And the DM, perhaps quite reasonably, pitted us against a lot of elementals and never dropped a keen scimitar.) Basically, every time he would crit, I would miss. (Sometimes the axe fighter got her crits in, though, so it wasn't a total waste.) Not to say it's bad. I would do it again in a heartbeat.
...Oh, yes. One point that almost goes without saying: The value of most of the rare weapons goes down a lot if your GM is designing treasures "organically" rather than specifically designing treasures that will fit your party perfectly.
On the other hand, that can really hurts martial classes. Especially ones that have to special in a particular weapon... fighter...
I find that daggers are a must have for most PCs, as its cheap, everyone can use one, it can be thrown, it can do slashing or piercing, and it's light. Ditto with the club and sling (except for wizards on that last one as we're not proficient) for a free bludgeoning weapon and ranged weapon respectively.
As for primary weapons... well, since our current party is a knife nut rogue, a cleric of Pharasma and a wizard, daggers have been pretty common. Our cleric picked up a set of magic gauntlets last session that're good enough that he's changing out for them, but he's keeping his old weapon around as a backup.
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Generally, anything with reach is good. It can define your role in a party in ways that few other melee weapons can.
I mean, almost everyone can use a longspear (yeah, druids can't. I am surprised as you are when they get the other spears) to turn into a 25' across circle of pain for anything that wants to charge at squishier party members.
It helps define you as something other than a mere beatstick for the party. And as a combat style, it is only 1 feat (combat reflexes) more complicated than regular 2handing.
I find that daggers are a must have for most PCs, as its cheap, everyone can use one, it can be thrown, it can do slashing or piercing, and it's light.
Speaking of daggers, has anyone seen the Iron Brush? Its a martial cousin of his. Concealable, D3 damage, 10 foot thrown and... That's it. Oh! and it does piercing but no slashing.
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The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.
The Tiger Fork and the Greatclub would like to have a few words with you...
I find that daggers are a must have for most PCs, as its cheap, everyone can use one, it can be thrown, it can do slashing or piercing, and it's light.Speaking of daggers, has anyone seen the Iron Brush? Its a martial cousin of his. Concealable, D3 damage, 10 foot thrown and... That's it. Oh! and it does piercing but no slashing.
Ah yes, piercing. The punishment of damage types. It gets applied to various important weapons (long spears, bows, short swords for classes like rogue, etc) as some kind of balancing thing it seems (although that was likely grandfathered in from D&D number points number)
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All IMO, etc. Also, not all-inclusive; some characters may get more use out of specific weapons that are not on this list.
Good Simple Weapons
Battle Aspergillum: Decent damage (1d6), bludgeoning (for skeletons, etc.), and (when filled with holy water) can affect many incorporeal creatures.
Dagger: "Rule 9." (most of the time, at least) Not just as a weapon, but as a tool. If the character has claws, then daggers are less necessary, but just about everyone else should have at least one.
Javelin: Decent damage, decent range (even better as a martial weapon with an amentum), can add Str bonus to damage.
Longspear: It's the only simple weapon with reach.
Quarterstaff: It's a double weapon, so it's versatile and efficient with action economy. Plus, they're cheap, common/easily overlooked (Gandalf at Meduseld?), and useful for prodding at surfaces/objects (to test footing, etc.).
Sickle: Decent damage, light tripping weapon (TWF trip build with light flail and sickle?).
Sling: For halflings with the Warslinger alternate racial trait and/or clerics and druid with magic stone.
Spiked Gauntlet: Can't be disarmed, can use the hands for other tasks without penalty.
Underwater crossbows: For campaigns with a lot of combat underwater.
Good Martial Weapons
Bill: For maneuvers (disarm), plus brace, reach, and a +1 shield bonus when fighting defensively.
Composite Bows: Add Str damage up to the bonus they are built for, full number of attacks per round without an extra feat (Quick Draw for thrown weapons or Rapid Reload for atlatl, crossbows, etc.).
Earth Breaker: Mechanically equivalent to a bludgeoning greatsword.
Falchion: 18-20/x2 critical, half-orcs have proficiency (unless trading out Weapon Familiarity).
Gladius: Shortsword that does piercing or slashing.
Greatsword: 2d6 damage.
Heavy Pick: x4 critical.
Hooked Lance: x4 critcal, reach, trip.
Jutte: Decent damage, bludgeoning, disarm.
Kukri: 18-20/x2 critical, light weapon.
Lance: For mounted combat.
Light Flail: For maneuvers (disarm, trip).
Light Pick: x4 critical, light weapon.
Monk's Spade: Double weapon, can do all three types of weapon damage (bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing).
Nodachi: 18-20/x2 critical, piercing or slashing, brace.
Rapier: 18-20/x2 critical, can be used with Weapon Finesse.
Scimitar: 18-20/x2 critical, can be used with Dervish Dance.
Scythe: x4 critical, trip.
Shields: With Improved Shield Bash (especially with Bashing Finish, Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, and a high crit-range weapon).
Trident: Decent damage (1d8), brace, can be used in melee or thrown.
Wushu dart: Cheap, light, can be used in melee or thrown.
Good Exotic Weapons
Bastard Sword: For heavily specialized characters (weapon sized for larger character, possibly 3 levels of titan mauler barbarian for Massive Weapons, ranger for lead blades or the impact weapon ability, and a way to increase size).
Dire Flail: For two-weapon fighting half-orcs with the Chain Fighter alternate racial trait and proficiency in all martial weapons.
Dwarven Urgosh: For two-weapon fighting dwarves with proficiency in all martial weapons.
Dwarven Waraxe: As with bastard sword, or for a dwarf with proficiency in all martial weapons.
Elven Curve Blade: For a specialized character (or an elf proficient in all martial weapons) with Weapon Finesse and the agile weapon ability.
Falcata: 19-20/x3 critical.
Gnome Hooked Hammer: For two-weapon fighting gnomes with proficiency in all martial weapons.
Katana: As with bastard sword (just with a better critical range), or for a tengu.
Meteor Hammer: Can either be used as a reach weapon (also granting a +1 shield bonus) or as a double weapon without reach.
Orc Double Axe: For two-weapon fighting half-orcs and orcs with proficiency in all martial weapons.
Rhoka Sword: See katana.
Sawtooth Sabre: For specialized two-weapon fighting characters; counts as light weapon for TWF penalties (with Exotic Weapon Proficiency), but as a one-handed weapon for other purposes (like Power Attack).
Scorpion Whip: If treated as a whip for reach.
Tekko-kagi: Can be used as a buckler (+1 shield AC) or to disarm without provoking an attack of opportunity, as well as for damage.
Temple Sword: For monks ("Monks are proficient with the temple sword.").
Whip: For maneuvers (disarm, trip), reach.
Is spike chain not a reach weapon anymore that can also strike adjacent foes?
If so, the crane wing nerf is irrelevant. That's some grade A BS. That will be house ruled away in my games. I blame SKR for this. He seems to be at the center of every ruling I've had issues with. /rant
EDIT: Did a quick google search. ALL OF MY RAGE!!! *rant* *rant* It's one thing to nerf a splat book feat line, it's another to nerf a decent martial option from 3.5 that's in the CRB.
The meteor hammer is Pathfinder's "spiked chain." It doesn't allow simultaneous use at reach and against adjacent targets, but it can be switched between reach/two-handed and adjacent/double use from round to round as a free action.
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The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.
I ruled that one of my players could have made a special loading lever/winch that is basically the same as a light crossbow, for the heavy crossbow, but requires 19+ strength. Thus only requiring a move action to load.
He had to look for a clever fabricator, and paid extra for the device, but honestly why not?It's still not a great weapon, but it allows him to have a ranged option that he prefers and it provided a fun RP opportunity.
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The greatest irony? Siege crossbows IRL were STAGGERINGLY powerful, to the point that they were better than firearms for penetration and damage with the right bolt head (Bodkin points ftw!). The catch was that it took minutes to reload the damn things, but still...
And before you say 'that's useless outside of a siege!', remember that there's nothing stopping you from opening with your obscenely powerful crossbow then switching out to something practical for a prolonged fight, then reloading between encounters.
The Heavy Crossbow is the worst. The worst ever.
I ruled that one of my players could have made a special loading lever/winch that is basically the same as a light crossbow, for the heavy crossbow, but requires 19+ strength. Thus only requiring a move action to load.
He had to look for a clever fabricator, and paid extra for the device, but honestly why not?
It's still not a great weapon, but it allows him to have a ranged option that he prefers and it provided a fun RP opportunity.
Seems as if EWP(heavy repeating crossbow) would be a better option for most folk.
Seven Branched Sword actually opens up some nice things.
Such as... Give us examples man!
Using trip against things that can't be usually tripped (which is a lot of stuff), as well as making a better alternative to feinting.
Its an alternative to feinting that uses a trip maneuver and is described as a disarm. For clarity's sake.
I don't own Ultimate Combat, so I'm curious whether anybody feels the EWP is worth it for any of the guns - assuming a non-gunslinger.
I'm not a fan of it myself. The gunslinger's class features are what bring it up to par and beyond, but on its own it can be feat hungry and you won't get a static modifier to damage.
I've always thought that the Dorn-Dergar looked kind of cool. I think playing a Stonelord Paladin with one of them would be pretty neat.
I have never seen the following weapons used by any PC: blowgun, hand crossbow, nunchaku, and light hammer. Oh, and no spiked chains since the conversion from 3.5. (Plenty before then.) I haven't seen the halfling sling-staff in use either, but I suspect that's due to the low number of halfling warrior-types in most campaigns.
I'm the only one I've known to use bolas. And that was for a fighter with a bounty-hunter theme.
And I've only ever seen the light mace, siangham and trident come into use because a really nice magical one was found.
As far as the super-popular end; greatswords, longswords and longbows are still leading the pack. There's some affection shown to glaives and greataxes; dwarven war-axes seem to lead bastard swords slightly for the dedicated sword-and-board types. Javelins and morningstars are the front-runners in the simple weapon category.
Bolas were better in 3.5. As trip as a touch attack (so you could afford -4 for not proficient).
