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Let's start with were I'm coming from.
The summoner is my favorite class and I have two of them in PFS (a more usual combat monster and a bickering married summoner/eidolon couple who is a skill monkey 'scout' eidolon who vanishes when combat starts as my feats are geared toward master summoner style play). I don't disagree that I think the developers have had a hard time figuring out options for the class.
I would say say the problem with the eidolon is some options are too limited from a cost/benefit ratio.
For example, all eidolons start with a 7 intelligence. That makes skill based build expensive and limits from a RP perpective the idea of an eidolon as intelligent equal. Magic options exist in UM. But they are too expensive and ineffective to be taken often once you figure in the cost of raising attributes. No archetypes ease these restrictions and allow for other styles of play.
Thus we have a bunch of similar combat monster types.
I think the key to making the summoner more popular and balanced as a class is to ease these restrictions.
I'd lower the str/dex slightly, say -2 on each and give but give the starting eidolon 3 more evolution points at 1st level. This makes the eidolon a bit more customizable and makes the combat monster less of a default build.
I'd add perhaps another feat or two built in at higher levels allow for more customization in that department.
Then, add some archetypes that play with the starting eidolon stats a bit more, perhaps restoring the original base stats or raising INT and/or CHA a bit, making skill monkey and caster eidolons more practical.
Hope that gets some thoughtful discussion going.
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One way to make him less hated would be to make him choose between the summoning SLA and the eidilon. Like the wizard chooses between familiar and bonded item. Or the druid between AC and domain.
Number 1 complaint I see for the summoner is its "summon monster" spell like ability. How would I change this?
Replace it with this:
Eidolon Ressurection (Su): The summoner can revive the Eidolon from “death” 3+ Charisma modifier times per day with 1 negative level and at half its maximum hit points as a standard action. This Negative level is due to the Eidolon not being fully attuned to this plane.
This negative level can be removed by the Summoner expending a full round action that provokes an attack of opportunity to correctly line his Eidolon up with this plane.
at first level the eidolon has its maximum HP reduced by 5 and takes -1 to all rolls instead of suffering from a negative level.
As for your idea, I would prefer if the Eidolon had an "intelligence" base form, similar to Biped in evolutions. That way, someone who wants the muscular super fighting Eidolon can keep those stats, while someone who wants a more well-rounded eidolon can have reduced physical stats for more intelligence.
I also came up with a cool Evolution a while ago. Here it is:
Essence Blast- 2 point evolution: The Eidolon gains a natural ranged attack that deals 1d6 + the Summoner’s Charisma modifier in force damage. Essence Blast has a range increment of 30 feet. This evolution may be purchased multiple times. This Evolution can be affected by Rapid Shot when making a full-attack. Essence Blast cannot be used as part of a pounce.
Things to note: This counts as a natural attack, so it actually counts towards the maximum number of natural attacks an Eidolon can have.
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Well, lowering Str and Dex slightly for doubling the amount of evolution points at level 1, doesn't really seem like a fair trade off. It might compete a bit less with a fighter right away in combat, but suddenly not only does the eidolon have its maximum number attacks possible, it also can do x, y, and z. -2 doesn't feel like a significant enough number. Eidolons can be monsters that are all too easy to have overshadow others. I feel it better to tread carefully. Especially when synthesis is possible.
You probably would be better off writing an archetype for skill monkeying, rather than making a change to the default eidolon chassis. One that has more significant downsides and upsides to it. Especially with something like the summoner, you actually have to take away things to add things. Summoner is a powerful enough class without any changes.
Properly speaking, it appears that the topic of this thread is altering the eidolon -- nothing in your intro says much about the summoner himself.
Eidolon archetypes would be an interesting avenue to pursue -- as things are, it is very easy to make an eidolon immensely strong but very tough to make them highly intelligent, to give just one example. But having an eidolon that progressed (for example) intelligence and charisma instead of strength and dexterity would result in a very different type of "pet" for the summoner.
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To the OP, if you are interested in seeing a very interesting take on the Eidolon, I recommend the third party company Dreamscarred Press. They are releasing a book called the "Mysteries of Akasha" that will have a Summoner archetype.
A little on the fluff behind it:
There are extradimensional beings without bodies called Daevas. Daeva's seek out people with strong emotions, and engage in a symbiotic relationship with them, granting them power of Akasha in exchange for letting them sustain themselves off the person's feelings. This is represented by a class called the Daevic.
This Summoner archetype grants a Daeva a physical form, so that the Daeva no longer needs a Daevic. The Daeva uses the Akasha system instead of the Evolution point system. This gives them just as much (or more) modularity, but it also prevents them from accessing stat boosting evolutions (There are no +dex, or +str, or +any stat Akasha, and no pounce). All together I feel that it is a slight nerf, but at the same time is really too cool. This Eidolon can do a LOT, such as get a breath weapon actually worth using.
Here is what the Base form is like:
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 30 ft.; AC +2 natural armor; Saves Fort (good), Ref (bad), Will
(good) Ability Scores Str 14, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 16; Free Evolutions weapon training
(simple), limbs (arms), limbs (legs).
I flagged this post as being in the wrong forum, since it about making Homebrew content for this Summoner. Don't worry, that forum is actually filled with people that like to make suggestions instead of complaining about the balance of the Summoner. You'll thank me for this Kerney.
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I dont understand how it is costly to make a skill monkey eidolon. It costs one RP to add +8 to a skill.
At level 1 you take the ability score increase to in, you now have 5skills per hd, take the skilled evolution for one skill, add ranks into 5 others. You have a skill monkey. At level 2 you can take the skilled evolution in something else. Keep that going for a few levels (baring half elf or taking the extra evolution) and your eidolon is about as good as it gets for whatever set of 5-6 skills you decide are important. Where is the difficulty in being a skill monkey?
I also think the freendom of customization IS THE PROBLEM with the eidolon. Because of how easy they are to customize, they essentially come out hyper optimized with limited effort. This is what makes them a problem at most tables.
If you want to make them more popular, or at least less reviled you need to add restrictions, not reduce them. Every class takes SOMETHING they probably dont want. The summoner and especially the eidolon doesnt have to do that, and that is a problem. Divde the evolutions into categories (im thinking offense, deffense and other) and require evolutions to be divided between them. That is more or less my solution.
I thought summoners were unpopular because less than 1in 5 players understand eidolpn math. Thiz is further complicated by possibly only 1 in 10 dm understanding eidolon math
Granted I pulled those number out of my ass but the conplexity is the issue.
Deep Magic's demon binder is my favorite version of the summoner.
I don't allow the summoner in my home games. I like the concept, but the mechanics of the eidolon are, frankly, way too complex for me or my players. I also don't like the ability to create whatever you want as an eidolon. I also have some major issues with the summoner spell list.
My fixes would be...
1) Completely rewrite the eidolon rules so that it works like a druid's animal companion. You would pick your eidolon from a list of standard outsiders that would start weak and improve with character level.
2) Fix the spell list to make spells have their expected spell level.
Obviously, that's effectively throwing out the class and replacing it with a new one. That's why I just disallow it in my games.
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Well, one of my personal major issues can be summed up by the existence of this thread, and what I suggest in it (basically, they're 9 level casters pretending to be 6 level ones...I'd just expand their spell list over 9 levels and make them work like other full casters otherwise).
I'd also be inclined to make Pounce more costly and make it only available at 7th level, given that basically nobody else gets it much before that, and that's when animal companions can get it. I would probably make it available to non-quadrupedal Eidolons, though.
And finally, I agree that making a skill-monkey Eidolon with decent Int should be easier...but would probably just make that a new and different base form. Oh! I do also already give the First Worlder's Eidolon +4 to all the mental stats to, y'know, make that Archetype worth taking.
My DM removed spells and increased evolution points.
That sounds like a cool way of doing it. It would need my above suggestion though to help balance it.
Nah, I'm good.My DM removed spells and increased evolution points.That sounds like a cool way of doing it. It would need my above suggestion though to help balance it.
You mean the thing that replaced the spell like ability with being able to revive your eidolon a few times a day?
I fail to see why that's a bad thing considering your DM already wants to remove their spell casting. Think about it like this: without spellcasting, the character is completely about their eidolon. Without an eidolon they are walking hit points and skill points with no worthy class features of their own. Just a few bad rolls in the first encounter of the day can basically make that Summoner go home because he cannot contribute anything further to the group.
You don't see foes saying "fighter, you lose your BaB, and bonus feats for the rest of the day." Nor do you see foes saying "Wizard you lose all your spells for the rest of the day."
Maybe make haste a 3rd level spell, or even 4th level to maintain balance.
Have spells only affect the eidolon (similar to the alchemist without infusion).
To begin with.
My idea is make haste 3rd level but give them a 2nd level single target version.
To the OP, if you are interested in seeing a very interesting take on the Eidolon, I recommend the third party company Dreamscarred Press. They are releasing a book called the "Mysteries of Akasha" that will have a Summoner archetype.
Isn't the name of that product supposed to be "Akashic Mysteries"?
To the OP, if you are interested in seeing a very interesting take on the Eidolon, I recommend the third party company Dreamscarred Press. They are releasing a book called the "Mysteries of Akasha" that will have a Summoner archetype.Isn't the name of that product supposed to be "Akashic Mysteries"?
You are totally right. Yeah, I guess I changed the title in my head a little. I am very excited about its release.
So when is it due for release?
So when is it due for release?
I actually do not know. The latest news for the product can be found here: Here
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I have yet to see any evidence that PFS suffers from a shortage of summoners.
I know numbers of each class vary from place to place (and I know this because work has allowed me to play in other cities). But I can count the number of Summoners on one hand if you exclude master summoners and synthesists which are now banned.
This is playing 2 or 3 times a month, sometimes more.
Basically I suspect they are the rarest class. You might live in an area that is an exception to that but I strongly suspect it's an exception.
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I have yet to see any evidence that PFS suffers from a shortage of summoners.
I know numbers of each class vary from place to place (and I know this because work has allowed me to play in other cities). But I can count the number of Summoners on one hand if you exclude master summoners and synthesists which are now banned.
This is playing 2 or 3 times a month, sometimes more.
Basically I suspect they are the rarest class. You might live in an area that is an exception to that but I strongly suspect it's an exception.
1 class out of twenty, and from outside the CRB.
So it is 1 to 5 summoners out of how many PCs?How many maguses in the same demographic? Cavaliers? Samurai? Alchemists?
Giving summoners a familiar instead of an eidolon would make it more palatable. ;)
Just think it isn't that much fun if you have ~3 turns (wizard eidolon and summoned creature) when other players have 1. But thats only in tabletop, not sure how this works in PFS.
Just think it isn't that much fun if you have ~3 turns (wizard eidolon and summoned creature) when other players have 1. But thats only in tabletop, not sure how this works in PFS.
That's what bothered me most when I played alongside a master summoner.
The two biggest problems I see with the summoner are:
1) They don't really have any glaring weaknesses. They're competent fighters, great at combat with all their summoned critters, and they can cast spells. An eidolon is a fantastic class feature that can easily be min-maxed. Their eidolon's Achilles heel rarely ever comes up. While they can fight, they don't have to put themselves in danger to use any of their class features. They have few skill points, but it's not difficult to turn your eidolon into a skill monkey to overcome that. Even as a 6-level spellcaster, they get access to some powerful spells faster than other comparable gish classes.
I'm not saying summoners are overpowered, but rather they lack an obvious price they paid for their power. I find Achilles heels interesting from both a gameplay and roleplay perspective as learning to play around your class's weaknesses makes for an engaging game.
2) Hassle to play and play with. Controlling and maintaining three creatures is annoying and makes a summoner's turn take forever to resolve. If there's any reason a person would not want to play a summoner, it's this.
The two biggest problems I see with the summoner are:
1) They don't really have any glaring weaknesses. They're competent fighters, great at combat with all their summoned critters, and they can cast spells. An eidolon is a fantastic class feature that can easily be min-maxed. Their eidolon's Achilles heel rarely ever comes up. While they can fight, they don't have to put themselves in danger to use any of their class features. They have few skill points, but it's not difficult to turn your eidolon into a skill monkey to overcome that. Even as a 6-level spellcaster, they get access to some powerful spells faster than other comparable gish classes.
I'm not saying summoners are overpowered, but rather they lack an obvious price they paid for their power. I find Achilles heels interesting from both a gameplay and roleplay perspective as learning to play around your class's weaknesses makes for an engaging game.
2) Hassle to play and play with. Controlling and maintaining three creatures is annoying and makes a summoner's turn take forever to resolve. If there's any reason a person would not want to play a summoner, it's this.
I think I will disagree on the weakness part. They do have weaknesses, but not every enemy encounter will have them. Thats what makes it difficult to balance.
An archer can easily make a summoner have a bad day, along with any foe that can attack the Summoner without having to face an Eidolon. So archers, gunslingers (who are also proficient in getting past high eidolon AC), evocation spellcasters, characters with good acrobatics, flying creatures, D. doored creatures.
Eidolons also have a few glaring weaknesses. Their saves are not always good because they fall behind on HD. This allows someone to target them with some pretty nasty ones, such as Hold Monster on a quadruped Eidolon. Fear auras are scary too.
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I also think the freendom of customization IS THE PROBLEM with the eidolon. Because of how easy they are to customize, they essentially come out hyper optimized with limited effort. This is what makes them a problem at most tables.If you want to make them more popular, or at least less reviled you need to add restrictions, not reduce them.
Disagree but I can see in a way why we may both be right. I can see a GM who doesn't want some weird combo of evolutions he's never seen before and is unfamilar with unbalancing the table. Pounce, for example, I think should be 2 points and not be availible at 1st level. I would ban or modify master summoners at my own table.
On the other hand, I would love to see a eidolon with the intelligence to take the combat expertise chain of feats or who is a cost effective caster; taking a hit to the physical stats/and or number of attacks in exchange for the intelligence or charisma to do so to make these options vaiable. Perhaps an evolution to get a feat. This is something that most GMs would have no problem with at their table because the eidolon in now pulling from the same 'toolbox' of options that most GMs and players are familar with and are not in and of themselves overpowered.
Hope that helps,
Kerney
I also think the freendom of customization IS THE PROBLEM with the eidolon. Because of how easy they are to customize, they essentially come out hyper optimized with limited effort. This is what makes them a problem at most tables.If you want to make them more popular, or at least less reviled you need to add restrictions, not reduce them.
Disagree but I can see in a way why we may both be right. I can see a GM who doesn't want some weird combo of evolutions he's never seen before and is unfamilar with unbalancing the table. Pounce, for example, I think should be 2 points and not be availible at 1st level. I would ban or modify master summoners at my own table.
On the other hand, I would love to see a eidolon with the intelligence to take the combat expertise chain of feats or who is a cost effective caster; taking a hit to the physical stats/and or number of attacks in exchange for the intelligence or charisma to do so to make these options vaiable. Perhaps an evolution to get a feat. This is something that most GMs would have no problem with at their table because the eidolon in now pulling from the same 'toolbox' of options that most GMs and players are familar with and are not in and of themselves overpowered.
Hope that helps,
Kerney
How about an archetype that gives the summoner one extra spell per day in every slot, gives the Eidolon a "caster" base form, and the Eidolon can cast spells using the Summoner's spell slots?
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How about an archetype that gives the summoner one extra spell per day in every slot, gives the Eidolon a "caster" base form, and the Eidolon can cast spells using the Summoner's spell slots?
2 casters at the price of one? 2 spell/round (4 with quickened spells)?
And that would be a improvement?- * -
How is that someone think that the Summoner class lack skills?
2 + int for the summoner. Let's say int 10 and non human = 2 skill/level
6+int for the Eidolon, Int 7, so that is 4 skill/level.
That is 6 skills each level without increasing the starting intelligence. The same number os skill point of a bard.
Put the level 5 stat increase in intelligence and the eidolon get 1 extra skill point/level.
The eidolon isn't another player character, it is a feature of the summoner. Wanting to play 2 full player characters at the same time when all other players play one is simply wrong.
How about an archetype that gives the summoner one extra spell per day in every slot, gives the Eidolon a "caster" base form, and the Eidolon can cast spells using the Summoner's spell slots?2 casters at the price of one? 2 spell/round (4 with quickened spells)?
And that would be a improvement?
I'm pretty sure he's joking. I hope.
I'm pretty sure he's joking. I hope.How about an archetype that gives the summoner one extra spell per day in every slot, gives the Eidolon a "caster" base form, and the Eidolon can cast spells using the Summoner's spell slots?2 casters at the price of one? 2 spell/round (4 with quickened spells)?
And that would be a improvement?
Well, I think both of you didn't notice that I said that they use the Summoner's spell slots. In other words, any dungeon worth its salt would blow through his spells like mad, considering how few spells per day a summoner has.
Also the base form would probably have 10 strength and constitution, granting a bigger charisma modifier. This Eidolon would not be the melee combat monster most people tend to fear. Though it would probably need some evolution point taxation.
As for quickened spells, how is a summoner affording them before level 10? Also at level 10 they can quicken 0th level spells. 4 quickened 0th level spells at level 10 is a joke, and takes up 4 of the summoner's 4th level spell slots. Summoners only have 1 4th level spell slot at level 10. At 13th level they can do quickened 1st level spells! Hooray!
Making the evolutions permanent, making them actual 6-level casters instead of cramming 9 levels of spells into 6, and making eidolons conform to an actual template, I think would possibly increase the amounts of GMs that would allow the summoner (instead of so many saying "no gunslinger, summoner, ninja or samurai"). Also, restricting which forms can get which evolutions.
The idea of the summoner appeals to me, but the abuse of the eidolon and its evolutions is extremely easy to do.
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I'm pretty sure he's joking. I hope.How about an archetype that gives the summoner one extra spell per day in every slot, gives the Eidolon a "caster" base form, and the Eidolon can cast spells using the Summoner's spell slots?2 casters at the price of one? 2 spell/round (4 with quickened spells)?
And that would be a improvement?
Well, I think both of you didn't notice that I said that they use the Summoner's spell slots. In other words, any dungeon worth its salt would blow through his spells like mad, considering how few spells per day a summoner has.
Also the base form would probably have 10 strength and constitution, granting a bigger charisma modifier. This Eidolon would not be the melee combat monster most people tend to fear. Though it would probably need some evolution point taxation.
As for quickened spells, how is a summoner affording them before level 10? Also at level 10 they can quicken 0th level spells. 4 quickened 0th level spells at level 10 is a joke, and takes up 4 of the summoner's 4th level spell slots. Summoners only have 1 4th level spell slot at level 10. At 13th level they can do quickened 1st level spells! Hooray!
You mean that "I have run out of spell, we should rest till I regain them." is a balancing factor? I don't think so, seeing how some people play.
A quadruped eidolon has a strength of 14. A serpentine one even less. Reducing that to 10 isn't a big drawback if you exchange that with the ability to cast spells. Take the right evolutions and the eidolon will still be a more than capable combatant.Doubling the rate at which you can cast your spell is a big advantage, even if you keep the same number of spells. You are suggesting increasing it, so it is a even bigger advantage.
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You mean that "I have run out of spell, we should rest till I regain them." is a balancing factor? I don't think so, seeing how some people play.Well, I think both of you didn't notice that I said that they use the Summoner's spell slots. In other words, any dungeon worth its salt would blow through his spells like mad, considering how few spells per day a summoner has.
Also the base form would probably have 10 strength and constitution, granting a bigger charisma modifier. This Eidolon would not be the melee combat monster most people tend to fear. Though it would probably need some evolution point taxation.
As for quickened spells, how is a summoner affording them before level 10? Also at level 10 they can quicken 0th level spells. 4 quickened 0th level spells at level 10 is a joke, and takes up 4 of the summoner's 4th level spell slots. Summoners only have 1 4th level spell slot at level 10. At 13th level they can do quickened 1st level spells! Hooray!
This does come down to play style. I don't play many games where you can just "rest in a Dungeon" and for me and people in such games, watching your spell slots would be big restriction.
I can also see other games where it would not be. But we cannot cover every style of play.
A quadruped eidolon has a strength of 14. A serpentine one even less. Reducing that to 10 isn't a big drawback if you exchange that with the ability to cast spells.
It sound like it evens out or is slightly weaker, which is the point. -2 BaB is a big deal, which it effectively is, not to mention reduced carrying capacity is a big deal.
Take the right evolutions and the eidolon will still be a more than capable combatant.
Doubling the rate at which you can cast your spell is a big advantage, even if you keep the same number of spells. You are suggesting increasing it, so it is a even bigger advantage.
It would be a huge deal if you don't practice what is called 'fire discipline' i.e. not expending your spell slots in the first fight. If you did, you would probably dominate the first fight. However, you would be trounced latter on by other (probably tougher) opponents latter on when you ran out of spell slots.
To not see this as a HUGE drawback is, I think, missing part of the point.
Truthfully, look at a the current caster powers and the evolution points that need to be expended to use those powers once per day. Can anyone honestly tell me that by current RAW, a caster eidolon wouldn't be anything other then grossly underpowered. This is one of those cases where strengthing the eidolon makes sense. It also discourages the 'combat monster' style of play that many posters are complaining about.
It is creating more options while discouraging abuse which is a win/win.
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Let's start with were I'm coming from.
The summoner is my favorite class and I have two of them in PFS (a more usual combat monster and a bickering married summoner/eidolon couple who is a skill monkey 'scout' eidolon who vanishes when combat starts as my feats are geared toward master summoner style play). I don't disagree that I think the developers have had a hard time figuring out options for the class.
I would say say the problem with the eidolon is some options are too limited from a cost/benefit ratio.
For example, all eidolons start with a 7 intelligence. That makes skill based build expensive and limits from a RP perpective the idea of an eidolon as intelligent equal. Magic options exist in UM. But they are too expensive and ineffective to be taken often once you figure in the cost of raising attributes. No archetypes ease these restrictions and allow for other styles of play.
Eidolons have an incredibly cheap evolution that gives them a +8 racial modifier to a skill of their choice. Screw 7 Int. That's nearly the equivalent of giving them +8 ranks in a skill in one swoop, except that it stacks with ranks they actually have, and with other modifiers like competence bonuses and circumstance bonuses.
Thus we have a bunch of similar combat monster types.
I think the key to making the summoner more popular and balanced as a class is to ease these restrictions.
I'd lower the str/dex slightly, say -2 on each and give but give the starting eidolon 3 more evolution points at 1st level. This makes the eidolon a bit more customizable and makes the combat monster less of a default build.
I'd add perhaps another feat or two built in at higher levels allow for more customization in that department.
Then, add some archetypes that play with the starting eidolon stats a bit more, perhaps restoring the original base stats or raising INT and/or CHA a bit, making skill monkey and caster eidolons more practical.
Hope that gets some thoughtful discussion going.
You're basically just pushing the eidolon's overall power higher and higher. You just reduced hit/damage/AC by 1 point, and gave it more *insert whatever you want*. +3 EPs is enough to get +8 in 3 different skills. Eidolons combined with their Summoners already have a massive skill advantage on most other characters.
To increase summoner popularity with me you could...leave the eidolon as it is, gut 60-70% of their spell list, reduce them to a d6 class with 1/2 BAB, and give them 1-9th level spellcasting (which is actually a NERF because they already get what is equivalent to full-casting, except they get it in smaller spell levels which means nothing but a strait power boost with metamagic rods).
If the eidolon was going to be tweaked at all, instead of changing it, I'd rather see new evolutions added, and options for tweaking your eidolons stats a bit. Adding some SLAs and/or supernatural ability options that were keyed to mental statistics and perhaps giving them the ability to tweak their ability scores slightly.
Honestly, allowing you to build one with 3 PB (NPC stats) + a set of modifiers based on form / type would be pretty cool. Doubly so if you could give them some magical abilities.
It feels like you're more upset that eidolons are generally just slobberknockers, when you'd rather have a hovering planar being doing cool ascended stuff like outsiders often do.
Deep Magic's demon binder is my favorite version of the summoner.
+1.
Having a lot of fun playing mine right now.
Design Manager
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If the eidolon was going to be tweaked at all, instead of changing it, I'd rather see new evolutions added, and options for tweaking your eidolons stats a bit. Adding some SLAs and/or supernatural ability options that were keyed to mental statistics and perhaps giving them the ability to tweak their ability scores slightly.
Honestly, allowing you to build one with 3 PB (NPC stats) + a set of modifiers based on form / type would be pretty cool. Doubly so if you could give them some magical abilities.
It feels like you're more upset that eidolons are generally just slobberknockers, when you'd rather have a hovering planar being doing cool ascended stuff like outsiders often do.
The Caller archetype I did for the upcoming Akashic Mysteries project from Dreamscarred Press has been really popular in playtesting. It trades out evolutions while giving the eidolon the ability to shape veils for skill bonuses or SLA's and drops the Summoner's summon monster SLA but allows some resource shifting between the Summoner and Eidolon to give him a couple extra spells per day.
A few people have noted that it's a little bit of a nerf to the core Summoner, but a lot of people think that's actually a good thing.
Can anyone honestly tell me that by current RAW, a caster eidolon wouldn't be anything other then grossly underpowered.
Regardless of the amount of spell slots the class has and other factors involved, being able to cast up to two full-round spells in a single turn breaks all established benchmarks considering the action economy of spells and is grossly better than comparable abilities, including quickened spells. So yes, a caster eidolon is definitely anything better than underpowered. Keep in mind this comes from a class that already has some of the best action economy benefits in the entire game.