UC KINGDOM BUILDING [+Ult.Rulership]: Campaign Integration


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I really like the Settlement- & Kingdom-building rules that started in Kingmaker, got cleaned up in Ultimate Combat, and received further expansion through Legendary Games’ Ultimate Rulership. I haven’t yet used them in play, however and have some questions that fall into two broader topics that I’d like to throw out to the Paizo community.

Part 1: Applying to established realms
Has anyone integrated these rules into your campaign play by “statting” an existing settlement, realm, or nation?

Does it work well? If not, why doesn’t it?

My campaigns, at least at present, do not follow the “Start from scratch” model of Kingmaker. My reason for wanting to do this is that the majority of my players prefer PC-driven adventures & sandbox adventuring. I learned long ago that I have far more success presenting the setting events as a backdrop rather than forcing a predetermined storyline upon the players. That said, I don’t want my world to be static.

The kingdom-building rules seem like they would be an excellent framework for allowing randomly-generated events, or even GM- or player-initiated events play out without having to rely solely on GM fiat. In much the same way that a detailed NPC or location generates ideas for me, I’m thinking things like, trade, wars, and settlement- or nation-affecting events would flow naturally and help avoid having a static world, even if the players choose not to follow every plot seed.

My Concern: That the rules DON’T lend themselves well to established areas; that the level of abstraction either invalidates the effort or undermines the desired effect.

Part 2: The GM’s mini-game
It’s a popular GM theory to not create more than you need. Fair enough and advice I typically follow. However, as I’ve previously noted above, some of my best story arcs and campaigns came from having fully-developed/realized NPCs that either inspired a new plot point or facilitated easier improvisation b/c I understood the NPC and his motivations.

I want to apply this method for similar reasons to setting development & prep. Once my elements are “statted up”, the event/management phases become something of a mini-game that I can play through. This would be especially desirable during “session droughts” where it’s tough to get a game together or when writer’s/GM’s block rears its ugly head.

Does anyone else utilize random events to help determine the progression of the setting? Or is old-school GM-fiat the sole driving force?

What methods work for you (or your GM)?


Soooo.... does anybody use the Kingdom Building rules outside of Kingmaker?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, I do.

I've been GMing my games in a persistent-world version of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting for about 20 years, and recently (a bit less than a year ago) the current crop of characters established a kingdom using the UCam rules.

This has thrown me into exactly the situation you describe: how to deal with existing kingdoms.

So far I've pretty much hand-waved the whole thing, with one exception: the players' kingdom has entered into a diplomatic relationship with an established kingdom (Cormyr, for anyone keeping track), and I needed to know the effect of that relationship for the purposes of the Diplomatic Edict.

Rather than building Cormyr in full as a kingdom, I used the recommended shorthand (size+2d6 for Economy and Stability). Trying to model such a large, detailed kingdom is more work than I've had time for so far.

However, my current plotline leads to the distinct possibility of the players conquering (reluctantly, in self-defence) a number of independent city-states (and, if they turn expansionist, full-blown kingdoms), and I want to be prepared.

Which means I'm going to need at least some idea of the kingdom stats of those city-states. So I'm going to be spending some of my precious GMing prep time writing up kingdom stat sheets for those kingdoms, knowing that I might need to integrate them with the players' kingdom at some point.

However, doing so is pretty low on my priorities list right now.

I do like the idea of using kingdom events to drive those kingdoms, though. Hadn't thought of that. Looks like you've created a new mini-game for me to try out.

I did roll up another kingdom to use as a counter to the players' kingdom, and that worked pretty well.

If I have time over the next week or two (I have a certain Kingdom tracking spreadsheet to work on), I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.

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