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However, they only get the save if they do a detect alignment/evil/etc. If no one in the party has it... game on ;-)
(and one of the times I ran it and there *was* a Paladin, the pre-rolled save was a natural 1 heh. That was the game when I got to stab Bob Jonquet's cleric in the back in the final encounter *grin*)
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One of the encounters packs a wand of misdirection CL12.
As I read wands its just the the DC of the spell level of the spell, not the caster level. Am I right about that?
If so the Will Save vs Misdirection is a measly 12. At T6-7 its barely a speedbump
It is all but certain to me that the author meant it to be a wand of nondetection, hence the very high caster level. A wand of nondetection CL 12 would produce an almost-unbeatable DC 27 caster level check (rolled secretly of course) in order to detect the alignment. This would make the scenario much more fun. I will admit to sighing in relief (confusing my players) when I prerolled a natural 1 for the paladin on his Will save against misdirection. It made the scenario at least 5 times as fun. It would be a nice erratum to nondetection if we can determine that my suspicion is correct. Maybe Larry will chime in here?
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First, to address Chris's question, I would allow a re-roll for the pre-roll if a player asked for one concurrently. I never have seen anyone ask for a re-roll in this situation, since I collect rerolls in sets of three or five--the actual one I use is randomly determined. Re-rolls are too precious to throw away, so in effect the players really don't have a choice in the matter. The whole point is to head-off the meta-gaming that happens when a player casts a spell that normally doesn't need a Will save--suddenly everyone turns into an inquisitor. I'm comfortable with doing it this way since my players trust my judgment.
Second,
...Vaga is masquerading as a human child, and has used her wand of misdirection targeting the true Tilly Anders, who can be found in the secret dungeon beneath the manor (area D5). Any attempt to read her aura instead reads Tilly’s, and the halfling’s naturally childlike features mean that even without her disguise in place, she can easily be mistaken for a human child.
Nondetection doesn't have a target, so I don't think the spell was a typo. Who knows what Larry Wilhelm intended or what was changed upon turnover. I agree that Vaga is all too easy to defeat if she is revealed, and I wouldn't begrudge the GM changing the wand to nondetection to preserve what appears to be the intent of the author.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Doug,
A few years back, I was in the habit of asking for a couple of Will saving throws in advance (the same as Initiative rolls, and Perception checks (for those times when a player doesn't even know the character might notice something).
One of my players at Origins objected, showing me text in the rules that indicated that a character always senses when he or she is in a situation represented by rolling a saving thow; that the act of throwing a save is never secret.
So, when the party encounters a situation like this one described, the PCs should know that there's a saving throw involved, although they don't know the results. Would you allow a player under those circumstances to say "If I rolled a 5 or below in the d20, I'd like to use my folio re-roll. I'm a 3-star GM."
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Doug,
A few years back, I was in the habit of asking for a couple of Will saving throws in advance (the same as Initiative rolls, and Perception checks (for those times when a player doesn't even know the character might notice something).
One of my players at Origins objected, showing me text in the rules that indicated that a character always senses when he or she is in a situation represented by rolling a saving thow; that the act of throwing a save is never secret.
So, when the party encounters a situation like this one described, the PCs should know that there's a saving throw involved, although they don't know the results. Would you allow a player under those circumstances to say "If I rolled a 5 or below in the d20, I'd like to use my folio re-roll. I'm a 3-star GM."
Absolutely. Given your example, perhaps I'll prepare a note for the player so they know what just happened rather than announce it to the entire table.
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One of my players at Origins objected, showing me text in the rules that indicated that a character always senses when he or she is in a situation represented by rolling a saving thow; that the act of throwing a save is never secret.
I found this in the rules:
Succeeding on a Saving Throw: A creature that successfully saves against a spell that has no obvious physical effects feels a hostile force or a tingle, but cannot deduce the exact nature of the attack. Likewise, if a creature's saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.
It doesn't say what happens when a save is failed though.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Sure, Paz, but incumbent on that is that a player should be able to bring to bear whatever tools she needs, in order to succeed on a saving throw, before the success or failure is determined.
If all those tools fail, then the character might not realize that she's diseased or under an enchantment.
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Nondetection doesn't have a target, so I don't think the spell was a typo. Who knows what Larry Wilhelm intended or what was changed upon turnover. I agree that Vaga is all too easy to defeat if she is revealed, and I wouldn't begrudge the GM changing the wand to nondetection to preserve what appears to be the intent of the author.
I can tell it isn't a simple typo, but in my mind (purely speculation), I imagine that Larry (or whoever was responsible for the wand if it was changed) knew he was picking misdirection but just forgot which one was the one with a caster level check. I know things like that happen to me all the time.
Hey guys just noticed this, I done goofed. In my turnover I put a wand of misdirection (my bad I thought I had it covered), but in hindsight, yes nondetection would have been my first choice. I wish I had a time machine :). As always, my unofficial answer is to do whatever is the most fun for you and your players, I know that officially does not help :)
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In addition to the players success in bypassing misdirection, how does detect magic play into the players identifying Vaga. She is wearing the boots of levitation and the glamoured armor. If the PCs detect magic, won't they identify those items and thing it is weird that a little girl named Tilly is wearing those items? How have other GMs gone around this?