Advice keeping magic in check.

[KA-BOOM!]

I have always hated magic classes. They are the bane of my existence both as a GM and Player. wizards and sorcerers are the worst. If they aren't wrecking the game they're stealing the show from everyone. Now before anyone starts talking about how "this class can deal more damage" or "that class gets more skill points" I want to make something perfectly clear. I don't hate them for their damage. I hate them for their overwhelming utility. Everyone in our group goes right for utility.

Hold Portal, Grease, Abundant Ammunition, Mount, Detect/Identify, Keep Watch, Floating Disk, Disguise Self, Sculpt Corpse, Ant Haul, Swift Girding, Arcane Lock, Alchemical Tinkering (Double Hackbut has a base cost of 4,000), Break, Oppressive Boredom, Unnatural Lust (yes I have seen story arcs ruined by this one,) Aboleth's Lung (I should have asked why he was taking that in a desert,) Make Whole, Whispering Wind... These are the spells that kill games.

Now I know the age old tricks of tiring the wizard, anti-magic fields, and "geek the mage" (to barrow a line from Shadowrun.) And we've all thrown anti-mage enemies at each other before. But in the end it simply comes down to the fact that given enough time to prepare his spells, the wizards/sorcerer (yes I know that sorcerers are spontaneous casters) has a answer for everything.

Here's where it get's worse...
Need a cannon? Arcane Cannon...
Need shelter? Secure Shelter...
Need Rage? Rage...
Need a crew for a Ship? Skeleton Crew...

Most of in the group have strong convictions against the GM using meta-knowledge of the wizards prepared spells and no one likes being on the run for 48 hours or more without rest. We're running out of ideas for ways to keep them in check. The only effective method has been non-stop action with minimal storyline because given even the tiniest opening and they will find some way to exploit it. Maybe we're abusing the class but it's getting old.

One more complaint... they get the item creation feats... the Alchemist doesn't get them but the Wizard who's only "craft skill" is Spellcraft gets them and can use ONE skill to fill in for any other craft skill.

I'm sorry, I know this was a rant but I am legitimately looking for ways to deal with this brand of ultra-utility magic beyond Flail Snails and minimalist storylines.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

What is that you would like magic to be capable of?

[MrSin]

KA-BOOM! wrote:

I'm sorry, I know this was a rant but I am legitimately looking for ways to deal with this brand of ultra-utility magic beyond Flail Snails and minimalist storylines.

Play another game?

More seriously, chances are people won't be so overly prepared. It can really help to have a conversation where you say "Guys! I can't handle it. Can we cut down on this so I can come up with good plot?" and of course the other side is that they might actually have fun doing all that.

[Lincoln Hills]

Well, first off, it sounds like you're allowing spells from every source. And it sounds like your wizards are exploiting that by buying these exotic spells at the corner supermarket. (I assume you're not just letting them have spells for free... except, of course, the two they get for gaining a level of Wizard.) Be willing to say, "Sorry, I'm not allowing these spells in my campaign" and "For some reason nobody in Grondberg, 200 miles from the sea, has a spellbook or scroll holding skeleton crew for you to duplicate." Once hunting down spells becomes more of a chore than throwing gold on a countertop they'll simmer down a little.

Second, it may help if you hand out tokens of different colors for the different spell levels. For instance, somebody capable of casting 2 3rd, 4 2nd and 5 1st-level spells could receive two orange, four red and five black tokens (whatever color system works), which they have to hand to you whenever they use up one of those spells. This is just to make sure everybody's tracking spell use honestly. In the case of prepared spellcasters you can also get into the habit of regularly auditing the wizard or cleric's "spells I have prepared today" list. I'm not saying any convenient forgetting or fudging is going on, but it may be - and this is how to find out.

[Ascalaphus]

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

What is that you would like magic to be capable of?

This is a very good question that deserves a serious answer.

[Lincoln Hills]

That would help guide our advice. You say 'utility' spells - is it really that broad a category? You list a bunch of utility spells as opposed to "save or die" spells, which I must say is a surprising change - most folks are a little more ticked about disintegrate than they are about make whole. That's why my first bit of advice was "you don't have to allow every utility spell that Paizo ever published." I don't like blanket bans very much, but I admit that when the wizard's spellbooks are so numerous that they provide him with improved cover, it might be time to curb things.

As for sorcerors... I don't remember the last time I saw a sorceror who would load up on once-in-a-blue-moon spells like the ones you list. One or two, perhaps - especially disguise self...

Me, I have a grudge against the lowly and innocuous create water, because I feel thirst is a great - nay, irresistible - motivation for PCs to venture into dangerous areas. But I hide my hate. ;)

[voska66]

I'd suggest playing different game. I picked up the Game of Thrones RPG just for that reason, it's very low magic. Now I don't dislike magic in Pathfinder but there times when I want game with much less magic and while I can do it in Pathfinder it's a lot more work.

[Ipslore the Red]

Posting in troll thread.

More seriously... play E6. Or play a different game.