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My wife and I played our first Pathfinder Society game at Comicpalooza and I was not allowed to play my Aasimar Paladin because I did not bring the Bestiary, the Advanced Race Guide, or Blood of Angels.
The Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play says that core assumption is that every player has the following:
• Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook
• Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play
From the FAQ:
"...the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary..."
Is the FAQ outdated or is the Bestiary part of the core assumption? If the FAQ is current and accurate, is there anything that can be done to update local event organizers? Note that I did not argue the point because I could not check the FAQ until I got home.
Similarly, I came across (while searching online) a group in Ontario that requires players to bring material from the Bestiary or, as one poster put it, they "have just summoned a kitten and a ball of yarn."
Also, the Additional Resources List does not specify any Races as legal content (outside of for polymorph purposes) so I don't see why, officially, possession of the Bestiary would enable playing as an Aasimar. In any case, we bought a copy of the Advanced Race Guide, so we are set for next time.
Secondly, the Field Guide has kinder progression than the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play for what can be purchased based on Fame. I would assume that the Guide to Organized Play, being newer takes precedence, but has there been any official statement to that effect?
Lastly, we are starting an online game, but it is not clear how to enforce Additional Resources restrictions. It sounds like if the GM has the resource in question, it is not an issue while playing with that GM. How do other people who run games online handle it?
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Lastly, we are starting an online game, but it is not clear how to enforce Additional Resources restrictions. It sounds like if the GM has the resource in question, it is not an issue while playing with that GM. How do other people who run games online handle it?
By and large its ignored. If you wanted to i suppose you could find a fluff section that's unlikely to be online and ask "what is word 7 of paragraph 3 on page 34"
champions of krynn flashback.
If you need a source cheap just buy the pdf and print out what you need (or toss it on a kindle)
The good news is that thanks to the level 1 retraining rules if you get a source before you play by level 2 your character can become the aasimar without starting over.
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Sounds like the FAQ is outdated. The core assumption these days is just the Core Rulebook and the PFS guide.
You may also select aasimar, tengu, or tiefling as your character’s race with access to the proper Additional Resources book.This refers to the Advanced Race Guide.
I was going to say "Or Blood of Angels/Fiends" but then I noticed that the Additional Resources do not state that Aasimars are legal for play under Blood of Angels or that Tieflings are legal under Blood of Fiends.
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I was going to say "Or Blood of Angels/Fiends" but then I noticed that the Additional Resources do not state that Aasimars are legal for play under Blood of Angels or that Tieflings are legal under Blood of Fiends.Sounds like the FAQ is outdated. The core assumption these days is just the Core Rulebook and the PFS guide.
You may also select aasimar, tengu, or tiefling as your character’s race with access to the proper Additional Resources book.This refers to the Advanced Race Guide.
It doesn't actually say that Aasimars are legal for play under the Advance Race Guide either.
In Chapter 2, nothing from the catfolk, drow, hobgoblins, kobolds, orcs, and ratfolk entries are currently legal for play.Aasimars: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play.
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Blood of angels will work for aasimar
Really weird. I know i'd seen that somewhere, couldn't find it, stopped looking for half an hour, then clicked the screen and there was one of my own posts linking to it.
Goood drugs...
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Bestiary is not part of the core assumption as it looks like the FAQ does need to be updated. It is assumed that GMs will have the Bestiary. Aasimar, Tengu, and Tiefling are always available if you have the required resources.
Aasimar: Blood of Angels, Advanced Race Guide, Bestiary
Tiefling: Blood of Fiends, Advanced Race Guide, Bestiary
Tengu: Advanced Race Guide, Dragon Empires Gazeteer, Dragon Empires Primer, Bestiary
Otherwise, if you only have the core assumption, you are limited to the core races.
Hope that helps.
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Recall, please, that while part of the reason for the Additional Resources requirement is to push sales of the products, the other practical reason is to allow GMs access to the stats in written/electronic form.
GMs do not have to memorize every rule in every book, and if a younger, more inexperienced (innocent?) GM Jeff Mahood saw an aasimar fighter casting daylight as a spell-like ability, he would absolutely have asked the player, "Show me in the book where it says you can do that, please."
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"...the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary..."
You have to read the entirety of the FAQ post, the parts before and after the ellipses are just as, if not more, important.
What do I need to bring to a game to use non-core material?
Or...
In order to use additional resources for your character, you must bring a physical copy of the book with you or printouts of the appropriate pages detailing cost (if any) and explanations for each feat, item, spell, prestige class, and so on that you use. One need not prove ownership of said material but they must be from a legally obtained PDF or book printed by Paizo Publishing; content reproduced in other sources under the Open Gaming License (such as an online reference document or a homemade omnibus) is not legal with regard to use in sanctioned Pathfinder Society play. Since the core assumption for Pathfinder Society Organized Play is the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary, we cannot assume that every Game Master will have the products included in the Additional Resources list. As such, it is each player's responsibility to bring to the game any necessary rules for running his or her character so that GMs may properly adjudicate the game during play.
I bolded the important part of that FAQ. While the core assumptions are not updated in the FAQ, they're only listing the GM's core assumptions as of the time that FAQ post was made anyway.
Right above that FAQ is the FAQ on Core Assumptions.
What books are Pathfinder Society players and GMs assumed to have?
Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that every player has access to the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook and a familiarity with Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and that every Game Master has access to the above plus the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary. When designing and developing scenarios, we assume that references to rules or flavor in these books needn't be explained. Lack of access to these materials may prevent players or GMs from being able to participate in the campaign. All relevant content from both the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook and Pathfinder RPG Bestiary may be found for free on the Pathfinder Reference Document at http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/.
That RAW above the one you quoted clarifies that the Bestiary is a core assumption for GM's only. The Bestiary only being a core assumption for GM's is also called out in the Guide to organized Play 5.0 under the section entitled Core Assumptions.
So a GM is well within his right to require players to own the Bestiary to use summon monsters (I require it of players since my bestiary is generally being used to run the scenario) as well as to require a player to own one of the books needed to play an Aasimar as mentioned in the Guide to Organized Play.
As for online play, I don't know how they checks if a question comes up but in this digital age I'm sure the GM could find a way to see a picture of the physical book, or printed out pdf water mark. I don't think their is a standard answer for that.
Hopefully that helped navigate some of the confusion.
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Maybe this is a different day, a different mental track, but what is the purpose of Core Assumptions? Maybe I have misunderstood their purpose.
Is it in part to lessen what a player needs to haul to a game? Do I need to bring a Core Rulebook in order to play a Paladin, in case the GM asks how my Mercies work or does the fact that it is part of the Core Assumption alleviate that requirement?
Is it to lessen what a GM has to bring and own, because anything outside of the Core Assumptions is the responsibility of the player to bring?
If a book is a part of the Core Assumption for GMs, why is it a requirement that the player bring it in order for the GM adjudicate it? Isn't it assumed that GM has it? That said, I am all for bringing your own copy to lessen the burden on the GM.
Is the exclusion of the bestiary from the player's core assumption, a mechanism to increase sales of the Bestiary to more than one copy per table?
The main purpose of examining the core requirements was to determine what I need to bring to Cons, but it's going to be home games for a while so bringing the bestiary is just a matter of taking it off the shelf. :)
GMs do not have to memorize every rule in every book, and if a younger, more inexperienced (innocent?) GM Jeff Mahood saw an aasimar fighter casting daylight as a spell-like ability, he would absolutely have asked the player, "Show me in the book where it says you can do that, please."
Since it is part of the Core Assumptions that you have access to the Bestiary, it may be a little inconsiderate, but how is it invalid to respond with "It is in your Bestiary under 'Aasimar'"?
A secondary goal of my post is to determine, as a GM (my wife or I), can we allow our collection of books to meet the Additional Resource requirements of players?
Other issues from the original post:
- Is there a way to get the Additional Resources page update to reflect which books enable use of Aasimar, Tengu, and Tiefling?
- Which table for Limits on purchases based on Fame is correct, the one from the Field Guide or the on from the Organized Play guide? Can I use either one? If I have 3 fame, is my gp limit for purchases that are not always available 0 gp or 500 gp?
- It sounds like there is no standard for enforcing PFS additional resource requirements online and doing so would entail digital distribution of copyrighted material.
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Please note: I don't have any real experience playing online; this is all about playing in meatspace.
GMs do not have to memorize every rule in every book, and if a younger, more inexperienced (innocent?) GM Jeff Mahood saw an aasimar fighter casting daylight as a spell-like ability, he would absolutely have asked the player, "Show me in the book where it says you can do that, please."Since it is part of the Core Assumptions that you have access to the Bestiary, it may be a little inconsiderate, but how is it invalid to respond with "It is in your Bestiary under 'Aasimar'"?
"The Bestiary which is at home, because in preparing for today's scenario I copied/printed out all of the monsters that I need to be able to run it? Can't help you, boss."
Core assumption has changed in meaning, specifically for GMs, since authors now assume that GMs have access to everything that they need to prep a scenario from the PRD. I do not generally bring anything with me except my CRB, as I've got alternative versions of everything else that I'll need for the scenario, usually as a formatted word document that I've spent a few hours putting together in preparation for the game.
To answer your question more formally, it is invalid because to use "things" (class features, races, stats, feats, traits, spells, whatever) from outside the Player's Core Assumption (that is, from outisde the CRB, basically) you need to have a copy of it with you, as per the rules on Additional Resources in the GtOP. You're not even allowed to borrow another player's, technically, unless you live with that other player.
To answer more informally, and from a GM's perspective (and not necessarily as a VL) - don't make the GM responsible for supplying the stuff to make your own character work. Many of us don't get anything for volunteering to run games aside from the enjoyment of doing so, and the least you can do as a player is to respect our time and energy enough to bring the things you're going to use for your own character. (For the record, I do see that sentiment and willingness in your last post, so please don't take this as an accusation - that's not how it's intended.)
A secondary goal of my post is to determine, as a GM (my wife or I), can we allow our collection of books to meet the Additional Resource requirements of players?
Officially, no. In practical terms, I'm sure it happens, but the rules on owning additional resources are quite clear. In general, if you don't own the book or a watermarked PDF, don't use that character option.
- Which table for Limits on purchases based on Fame is correct, the one from the Field Guide or the on from the Organized Play guide? Can I use either one? If I have 3 fame, is my gp limit for purchases that are not always available 0 gp or 500 gp?
The one in the Guide to Organized Play is currently correct. There have been adjustments made since the Field Guide was published, which is the danger of hardcopy documents. In general, always defer to the GtOP when there is a contradiction between it and another document.
- It sounds like there is no standard for enforcing PFS additional resource requirements online and doing so would entail digital distribution of copyrighted material.
If the online Venture-Officers haven't wandered into this thread before tomorrow, I'd send one of them an email asking for suggestions on how to enforce Additional Resources rules online. I'm sure they have some ideas and experience with it.
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Other issues from the original post:
- Which table for Limits on purchases based on Fame is correct, the one from the Field Guide or the on from the Organized Play guide? Can I use either one? If I have 3 fame, is my gp limit for purchases that are not always available 0 gp or 500 gp?
I would go with the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, as it is the go to reference that is free to have, is updated regularly, and expected to be had by everyone.
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Maybe this is a different day, a different mental track, but what is the purpose of Core Assumptions? Maybe I have misunderstood their purpose.
The core assumptions are the books that every player who plays needs to be familiar with, or in the case of the Bestiary the GM needs to familiar with in order to fulfill their part of the game.
Is it in part to lessen what a player needs to haul to a game? Do I need to bring a Core Rulebook in order to play a Paladin, in case the GM asks how my Mercies work or does the fact that it is part of the Core Assumption alleviate that requirement?
Is it to lessen what a GM has to bring and own, because anything outside of the Core Assumptions is the responsibility of the player to bring?
The core assumptions are to ensure that everyone knows how the game works, and PFS assumes that the players have the rules. GM's need the Bestiary because you need to know content in that book to properly run scenarios.
Do you need it to play a Paladin, generally no because the GM should be familiar with the class. But as the FAQ state sit is the players requirement to bring any rules needed to run his character. What this means that if a GM think Mercies work differently then you do, and you didn't bring your book, and no one will lend you a book to check, you are out of luck.
If a book is a part of the Core Assumption for GMs, why is it a requirement that the player bring it in order for the GM adjudicate it? Isn't it assumed that GM has it? That said, I am all for bringing your own copy to lessen the burden on the GM.
Because it's not the GM's job to read summon monster stat blocks for you. It's not his job to make sure you know your races racial abilities. He needs the Bestiary in order to run the scenario, because monster types, subtypes, and special abilities are all listed in it. Without a Bestiary he wouldn't know how to properly run his NPC's.
In fact it's really hard for a GM to goggle a players summon monsters and the scenario monsters at the same time.
Is the exclusion of the bestiary from the player's core assumption, a mechanism to increase sales of the Bestiary to more than one copy per table?
No. Most players don't need the Bestiary to play the game.
The main purpose of examining the core requirements was to determine what I need to bring to Cons, but it's going to be home games for a while so bringing the bestiary is just a matter of taking it off the shelf. :)
Well as a player you need to bring everything your character requires to play. Your wife would also need her own copies if she isn't at the same table as you.
A secondary goal of my post is to determine, as a GM (my wife or I), can we allow our collection of books to meet the Additional Resource requirements of players?
No. The only time you can share additional resources is if you live in the same household and are at the same tables.
Realistically in your own home Paizo can not force you to check ownership, nor do they require GM's to check ownership at other locations. Much of PFS works on the honor system because honest players will be honest.
Is there a way to get the Additional Resources page update to reflect which books enable use of Aasimar, Tengu, and Tiefling?
You could ask in the additional resources thread.