Personally, I want Deadly Aim, Power Attack, and Combat Expertise to both be uncapped and part of the BAB mechanics.
As much as I like the idea of things like Deadly Aim, Power Attack, and Combat Expertise to be part of the BAB mechanics, I fear what MTG calls "Complexity creep". Making to many "remember to use this when appropriate" effects part of the base rules I fear will cause unwanted confusion and loss of clarity. Though I do wish feats weren't taxes on things that amount to "Swing hard at the expense of accuracy."
As much as I like the idea of things like Deadly Aim, Power Attack, and Combat Expertise to be part of the BAB mechanics, I fear what MTG calls "Complexity creep". Making to many "remember to use this when appropriate" effects part of the base rules I fear will cause unwanted confusion and loss of clarity. Though I do wish feats weren't taxes on things that amount to "Swing hard at the expense of accuracy."
Considering how ALL combat maneuvers are part of the base rules, I think we are well past that point already.
As much as I like the idea of things like Deadly Aim, Power Attack, and Combat Expertise to be part of the BAB mechanics, I fear what MTG calls "Complexity creep". Making to many "remember to use this when appropriate" effects part of the base rules I fear will cause unwanted confusion and loss of clarity. Though I do wish feats weren't taxes on things that amount to "Swing hard at the expense of accuracy."Considering how ALL combat maneuvers are part of the base rules, I think we are well past that point already.
I admit... that is true.
I admit... that is true.As much as I like the idea of things like Deadly Aim, Power Attack, and Combat Expertise to be part of the BAB mechanics, I fear what MTG calls "Complexity creep". Making to many "remember to use this when appropriate" effects part of the base rules I fear will cause unwanted confusion and loss of clarity. Though I do wish feats weren't taxes on things that amount to "Swing hard at the expense of accuracy."Considering how ALL combat maneuvers are part of the base rules, I think we are well past that point already.
Also... Just having Power Attack is actually less complex than needing a feat for Power Attack. At least you don't to pay a pointless tax and figure out a way to make it fit into your build.
It's more obvious with Combat Expertise, since most martials would want PA anyway... Combat Expertise sucks... Should I get in order to try to get something cool later, even if I plan to never use CE itself? Is it worth the feat slot? At what level should I take it?
Lots of questions... If you just add CE to "stuff characters can do", then the payers no longer need to worry about fitting CE into their build. Feat selection and character build suddenly becomes a whole lot easier, and martials got a nice buff.
Remove the rule that says that maneuvers provoke AoO and martials now have actual options in combat without having to pay a pointless, unnecessary and unfun feat tax... And the game became a whole lot simpler as well!
Our fighter has to worry about at most 8 melee attacks per turn and then some d8s and d6s from arrows. The damage rate is slow enough that said fighter could drink a potion every so many dozens of rounds and be just fine.
What do you mean with "some" d8s? A light crossbow has a max range of 800 ft., and with only Inspire Courage from a 1st level bard (which the army ought to have) deals 1.96 average damage (after accounting for crits and DR 5/-).
With a max range of 800ft., that's an area of 80 000 squares (or 46 acres). Assuming only 600 crossbowmen within that, and not considering any other missile weapons, you're looking at an average of 60 damage per round only from 1st level commoners with ordinary light crossbows. Meanwhile your killing rate isn't near enough to cut them down before they shoot you down. And pray to god their crossbowmen don't have deadly aim, or the damage jumps to 105 damage per round.
Sure, potions, but every round you're drinking a potion is a round you're not killing people. And again, this is just 1st level standard soldiers we're talking about.
(And meanwhile, a summoner could just chill around invisible and a few hundred feet up into the air and let their summoned devas and ghaeles auto-kill a scores each round)
WBL still doesn't fix the Fighters problem. He has to spend most of his money just to stay relevant. This issue is shared by all martial classes, of course, but Fighters take it harder than most.
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And at level 20 a fighter has 880,000 WBL in items to deal with the abilities his adversaries will have. Spend your money wisely and you do just fine.
Being completely dependent on gear worth more than the networth of some nations isn't necessarily a good thing. It kinda amuses me how Fighters are more boned than full casters in an Anti-Magic Field because at least the caster probably made the spellcraft check to see it coming.
Because martials are balanced like Pathfinder is Lord of the Rings and casters are balanced like Pathfinder is ancient mythology.First, I don't want this to be a caster vs martial thread.
Too late, the moment you asked that question, that's the ONLY answer you will get. Simply because THAT'S what's the issue. There are two sets of balances.
And it's not so much versus as what rule systems that 3.x uses. The basic system in Combat, Exploration, Skills and Feats are all tied together and work for everything and everyone. From the Fighter to the Rogue to Monsters, Orcs and Giants and Dragons, everything in the Pathfinder RPG uses BAB, AC, CMD/CMB and Hit Points.
However, the moment you look at the magic section, you get well over one hundred new rule blocks that are mostly exclusionary, that scale up in power in terms of ability and damage (When a 20D6 damage Fireball which still means damage on a failed 'save' is considered a bad option, you know something's up with the scaling of power) and almost always function (Saving Throws are a resistance, not a Caster failure) that's a different power level all together. Even spells can bypass a lot of those basic mechanics and attack the non-scaling stats, like Strength or Constitution.
And worse, only a select few get access to the full capacity of Magic (both classes and monsters) it widens the power disparity even more.
So no. We cannot separate the fact that the game (and by game I mean D&D in general) has two separate mechanical systems that are at odds with each other.
I understand the LoTR thing, but LotR ends at level 6 or so... everything past that is way beyond the scope of that setting. A level 20 fighter, theoretically, is way beyond the scope of most high fantasy fiction in general.
The Level 20 Fighter isn't beyond the scope of most Fantasy Fiction, because all he does is attack maybe 5-10 times with x amount of seconds. Often at a penalty to do more damage (Power Attack is pretty much mandatory, because otherwise you're limited to Strength Bonus+Magic Weapon Bonus+Feats, which still does less than 30 points of damage on average per swing) and often the only attacks that can regularly connect out of the 5-10 swings are the first two. And rarely does he be able to fell a foe of 'lesser' power than he (unless the monster in question is level 4 or less, and even then, some monsters that's iffy. And this is a Level 20 Fighter against level 4. Unless Power Attack comes into play, and even then, the Fighter will miss more often, or do significantly less damage per blow.)
Most Fantasy Fiction Fighters slay most foes they face in one strike, and often faster than the Fantasy Fiction Wizard (whether Ally or Enemy) can cast. Either they are able to slay the Evil Wizard and save the Sacrifice, or if they Wizard is an ally, allows the Wizard to complete his spell by killing and slowing the oncoming army. They also often slay several tens of foes per minute this way. Most D&D Fighters never got to kill more than 1 per minute in the older editions.
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Kind of a waste honestly since the only way for a Fighter to make magic items is to take Master Craftsman, which lets you substitute another Craft skill rank in place of Spellcraft.
Also, a Wizard doesn't need all of his WBL to buy a ton of spells.
A Blessed Book takes care of most of the scribing costs AND space costs, for fairly cheap.
Martial necessary magic items (especially magic weapons) take up a gigantic chunk of their WBL at most levels, on top of which they need items like Winged Boots to even stay relevant.
The problem with WBL as a "balancer" is a martial character needs to spend WBL to shore up his weaknesses and get worse versions of stuff a caster can get for free, but a caster really only needs to buy things that make their strengths stronger.
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Actually, casters generally get things that increase their versatility and options, because they've got power and weaknesses covered with their spells.
This is why they start rapidly intruding on the jobs of other classes. All a caster needs to be more powerful...is more spells. And unlike feats and skill points, there's tons of ways to get this kind of thing.
==Aelryinth
Notes I've made as a GM:
At high levels just make it rain so much gear people barely even notice their class features.
Fighter: "What do you mean narrative power?", he says while drawing his third luck blade of the day.
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It's more obvious with Combat Expertise, since most martials would want PA anyway... Combat Expertise sucks... Should I get in order to try to get something cool later, even if I plan to never use CE itself? Is it worth the feat slot? At what level should I take it?
Lots of questions... If you just add CE to "stuff characters can do", then the payers no longer need to worry about fitting CE into their build. Feat selection and character build suddenly becomes a whole lot easier, and martials got a nice buff.
Not to mention that if we're worried about adding options, I don't see any reason why Combat Expertise and fighting defensively need to be separate rules anyway.