I suck at tactics. As such I have high level gaming coming up soon and I'm playing an Eldritch Knight. One of the spells I'm thinking of picking up is Obscuring Mist or maybe Fog Cloud, or I may just have smokesticks. The point is: I don't really know how to maximize use of these effects.
They give you concealment: 20% miss chance from 5', 50% miss chance from 10 or more. I suppose the tactic is to drop the cloud with you at the very edge, attack out of it, then 5' step back into the mist for the 50% concealment.
1. Is this the intended use of the spell
2. Are there other things to use fog spells for
3. Is there a spell/feat that lets you see out of the fog while enemies are still hindered
1. Intended use? Anything you can think of.
2.Fog spells are -great- at disrupting ranged attacks, since the enemies can't find you. Beware of Fireball however.
Also handy to produce a veil to stealth inside of, and perhaps make a getaway.
3. YES. Waves Oracle has a revelation or some such. And there may be a pair of goggles somewhere...
Improved and Greater Blindsight with high perception.
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Fog cutting lenses are your friend. There's also the cloud gazer feat but that's less useful, doubly so if you're not already a sylph or something that counts as a sylph via racial heritage.
See a man on a horse?
Ready an action to drop an Obscuring Mist.
Archers? DROP THE FOG.
An enemy that already has concealment against your party? Return the favor.
Blindsight? Does that eliminate the penalties? What about Echolocation? I might pick up some Fog-Cutting Lenses. Monstrous Physique II, along with numerous obvious advantages gives me reach. I thought it might be kind of cool to drop a fog, attack with 50% concealment with reach while my party gets 20% on the outskirts. Or maybe drop a fog, buff, then charge.
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Generally speaking, when you are playing a caster, Fog clouds and obscuring mist aren't about the 20% miss chance, they are about the total prevention of vision over 5'. For a caster, this can be monumentally useful in a number of ways, I'll list a few of the most common here:
First let's explain how a fog cloud doesn't screw you over (this is the most common complaint I hear, "The fog cloud hurts me as much as the enemy!")
If you have a variety of spells, there are likely many choices you have that don't require you to see your target. Fog cloud blocks line of sight, but not line of effect. This is an important distinction. You may not be able to see anyone, but you can still summon creatures, lay down walls, throw area of effect spells, etc. Keep in mind that with things like summoning - you don't even need to know where the enemy is, you can summon the monster, it runs out of the fog, and locates the enemy. Some creatures (like Dire Bat) can locate creatures within the fog as well.
Now let's discuss how it can be used to foil the enemy:
1) Archery: Wizards and Sorcerers don't like being attacked, that's why they hide behind the big stupid fighter types. Archery can eliminate that advantage, so making yourself effectively invisible by fog eliminates their ability to target you.
2) Enemy casters: Some casters use dirty tricks like actually targeting your character with spells. The nerve! Fog forces them to play on your terms, eliminating nasty rays and other targeted spells. By the way - most spells that provide a Fortitude save (you don't like making fortitude saves) require line of sight.
3) Enemy melee attackers: Not seeing you is basically invisibility, it prevents charges, and also makes them need to hunt through the fog to find you. Maybe they find the fiendish dire wolf you summoned instead...
4) Summoning: My favorite trick is summoning, but the 1 round casting time is a vulnerability I don't like. Summoning in Fog reduces that vulnerability.
I've used the term "invisible' a couple times here - because that's what fog makes you. However, unlike invisibility, see invisible, glitterdust, and invisibility purge are of no help in finding you.
Final point: You mention smokesticks. Smokesticks are wonderful little inventions that an improved familiar mephit can drop (or if you have a kind DM, any familiar). That means it's basically in addition to your normal actions! (I've been recommending familiars for years now). So your round can go: 1) Target enemy with nasty spells 2) Mephit drops smokestick 3) Take move action to back up, becoming 100% obscured. Isn't that lovely?
I second using it after deeper darkness. It's always hilarious to watch the GM's face after that. Because no NPC rogue has Shadow Strike.
Improved Blind-fight
Ignore less than total concealment.
Greater Blind-Fight (not letting me link for some reason)
Total concealment only provided 20% miss chance (which you can roll twice)
High Perception to pinpoint or some other means, blindsense, tremorsense, etc.
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Generally speaking, when you are playing a caster, Fog clouds and obscuring mist aren't about the 20% miss chance, they are about the total prevention of vision over 5'. For a caster, this can be monumentally useful in a number of ways, I'll list a few of the most common here:
First let's explain how a fog cloud doesn't screw you over (this is the most common complaint I hear, "The fog cloud hurts me as much as the enemy!")
If you have a variety of spells, there are likely many choices you have that don't require you to see your target. Fog cloud blocks line of sight, but not line of effect. This is an important distinction. You may not be able to see anyone, but you can still summon creatures, lay down walls, throw area of effect spells, etc. Keep in mind that with things like summoning - you don't even need to know where the enemy is, you can summon the monster, it runs out of the fog, and locates the enemy. Some creatures (like Dire Bat) can locate creatures within the fog as well.
Now let's discuss how it can be used to foil the enemy:
1) Archery: Wizards and Sorcerers don't like being attacked, that's why they hide behind the big stupid fighter types. Archery can eliminate that advantage, so making yourself effectively invisible by fog eliminates their ability to target you.
2) Enemy casters: Some casters use dirty tricks like actually targeting your character with spells. The nerve! Fog forces them to play on your terms, eliminating nasty rays and other targeted spells. By the way - most spells that provide a Fortitude save (you don't like making fortitude saves) require line of sight.
3) Enemy melee attackers: Not seeing you is basically invisibility, it prevents charges, and also makes them need to hunt through the fog to find you. Maybe they find the fiendish dire wolf you summoned instead...
4) Summoning: My favorite trick is summoning, but the 1 round casting time is a vulnerability I don't like. Summoning in Fog reduces that vulnerability.
I've used the term...
Welcome back, Treantmonk. :)
Drop a fog cloud on top of an enemy archer. He has to move out of the cloud to see his targets. Presto, no more full attack... This is still useful at very high levels.
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I second using it after deeper darkness. It's always hilarious to watch the GM's face after that. Because no NPC rogue has Shadow Strike.
Wait, what? Every single NPC I've ever created that uses sneak attack gets that feat. It's practically mandatory as far as I'm concerned.
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Welcome back, Treantmonk. :)Generally speaking, when you are playing a caster, Fog clouds and obscuring mist aren't about the 20% miss chance, they are about the total prevention of vision over 5'. For a caster, this can be monumentally useful in a number of ways, I'll list a few of the most common here:
First let's explain how a fog cloud doesn't screw you over (this is the most common complaint I hear, "The fog cloud hurts me as much as the enemy!")
If you have a variety of spells, there are likely many choices you have that don't require you to see your target. Fog cloud blocks line of sight, but not line of effect. This is an important distinction. You may not be able to see anyone, but you can still summon creatures, lay down walls, throw area of effect spells, etc. Keep in mind that with things like summoning - you don't even need to know where the enemy is, you can summon the monster, it runs out of the fog, and locates the enemy. Some creatures (like Dire Bat) can locate creatures within the fog as well.
Now let's discuss how it can be used to foil the enemy:
1) Archery: Wizards and Sorcerers don't like being attacked, that's why they hide behind the big stupid fighter types. Archery can eliminate that advantage, so making yourself effectively invisible by fog eliminates their ability to target you.
2) Enemy casters: Some casters use dirty tricks like actually targeting your character with spells. The nerve! Fog forces them to play on your terms, eliminating nasty rays and other targeted spells. By the way - most spells that provide a Fortitude save (you don't like making fortitude saves) require line of sight.
3) Enemy melee attackers: Not seeing you is basically invisibility, it prevents charges, and also makes them need to hunt through the fog to find you. Maybe they find the fiendish dire wolf you summoned instead...
4) Summoning: My favorite trick is summoning, but the 1 round casting time is a vulnerability I don't like. Summoning in Fog reduces that
This!
I think the better question to ask is, "How do I use Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud in a way that doesn't also screw over the rest of my party."
In my experience, most fights don't happen in wide open areas where your allies can just totally ignore your 20' radius bubbles of messy vision.
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I love it when Treantmonk posts.
Fog Cloud is also useful for splitting the enemy or disrupting an enemy group's ability to coordinate.
If they're sufficiently stupid, the enemies in the fog will not know what is happening (death) to their friends not in the fog.
If there is a group and you can identify the leader, drop a Fog Cloud on their head. It's like three debuffs rolled into one.
As said before, it is invaluable when facing a ranged threat.
Helpful:
Obscuring Mist is Dismissable.
Fog Cloud is not Dismissable.
Gust of Wind is handy if things go awry with a Fog Cloud.
Check with the rest of your party before you drop a Fog Cloud in combat, especially if it's in a small-ish space. It is considered rude not to.
Also, some martials may have strong opinions about 'giving the enemies concealment' or some other nonsense like that. It's wise to keep them happy, or at least inform them of your plan in advance.
Also - you may want to ask your GM how he/she handles movement within fog. The fog is considered poor visibility to some, and that has an effect on movement (half). Not everyone sees it this way, but I think it's a very reasonable way to handle it. I personally don't force the half movement cost, but give a choice between half movement or full movement but dealing with running into things in the fog.
If you know it will impose a movement penalty, or at least has a chance depending on the terrain/obstacles, it could be used to simply help slow down the enemies.
If you have a way to see through fog, it's very nice on an Arcane Trickster, as you have pretty much guaranteed sneak attacks now.
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Whoa... he's back :)Welcome back, Treantmonk. :)
I thought at first this was another silly necro-thread then I noticed the date...
The stars must be right.
The Mist/Fog spells are also great for setting up ambushes, in addition to all of Treantmonks great suggestions. If you're in a narrow passageway (hallway/dungeon/cave/tunnel/etc) you can drop your fog right in the center, blocking all line of sight. Party sets up on the other side with readied actions for when the enemies come through... Boom.