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I'll be back. The Reincarned Druid Handbook


Advice

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4 people marked this as a favorite.

Howdy all I have created an handbook for the Reincarnated Druid Archetype. I love this archetype but don't see much love for it. This is my first guide so if you have anything to add please let me know.

Enjoy

Hope this link works.


Link works for me, guide looks pretty good. Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Great guide. Its one of the better ones I have read.

How do you feel about a qingong monk for Ki powered restorations?


London Duke wrote:

Great guide. Its one of the better ones I have read.

How do you feel about a qingong monk for Ki powered restorations?

It's doable, level 8 monk/level 5 druid. I would go maybe 14 monk/druid 6 for fire elemental to add a burn to my flurry.

Does the Qinggong version of Restoration have the week limitation? It's definitely an option I hadn't considered, albeit slower than purify.


I think this archetype is pretty cool so I really like this guide. Will definitely make a character or NPC using this. +1 for the Sa-X reference too btw.

Grand Lodge

EgakuDrew wrote:
London Duke wrote:

Great guide. Its one of the better ones I have read.

How do you feel about a qingong monk for Ki powered restorations?

It's doable, level 8 monk/level 5 druid. I would go maybe 14 monk/druid 6 for fire elemental to add a burn to my flurry.

Does the Qinggong version of Restoration have the week limitation? It's definitely an option I hadn't considered, albeit slower than purify.

Probably does have the limitation. However why is the limit such a problem? When you die, restore yourself then wait around for a week to be sure no one is going to up-and kill you dead dead.

Grand Lodge

Do you deal that druid 20 is worth it using this archetype? You could grab magical knack with the 2 barbarian/ranger levels I guess.


London Duke wrote:
EgakuDrew wrote:
London Duke wrote:

Great guide. Its one of the better ones I have read.

How do you feel about a qingong monk for Ki powered restorations?

It's doable, level 8 monk/level 5 druid. I would go maybe 14 monk/druid 6 for fire elemental to add a burn to my flurry.

Does the Qinggong version of Restoration have the week limitation? It's definitely an option I hadn't considered, albeit slower than purify.

Probably does have the limitation. However why is the limit such a problem? When you die, restore yourself then wait around for a week to be sure no one is going to up-and kill you dead dead.

It is not always a problem. In a game like Kingmaker where you have weeks at a time for your characters to recuperate then you do not need to worry about it getting done quickly. In fact it is a perfectly reasonable strategy to wait it out, after all, what would a Lich do?

Why I am concerned with time is because it is very easy for this character to go into "Negative Level Debt." If you die the maximum amount and reincarnate, meaning you die every week, and restore one negative level every week, you will eventually start to take permanent con damage. You can't keep up with standard Restoration.

Is it reasonable to assume you will be reincarnating as often as possible? No, but when plot starts to move forward rapidly you do not want negative levels piling up on you week after week.


London Duke wrote:
Do you deal that druid 20 is worth it using this archetype? You could grab magical knack with the 2 barbarian/ranger levels I guess.

I think the reincarnate druid definitely shines in the mid levels, levels 5-12 before things like finger of death start to pop up. As necromancy gets better, this archetype gets worse off. Plus, an auto reincarnate at high levels isn't as impressive as it is at level 5. At higher levels you can set up contingencies and clones and the like without too much difficulty.

Likewise I think "it depends" on the Druid 20 thing. You can be just as good of a summoner as you were without the archetype. Essentially I think the reincarnate druid is a perfectly good normal druid with added self-rez provided you don't want to be wildshape focused. If you want to be a melee character multiclassing is a quick way to shore up a weak wildshape at lower levels.


What is your take on using this archetype for NPC's? Particularly with villains. Do you have any particular advice for such approaches?

Since they would be under the GM's control, it would not be particularly easy to bump up an enemy 2 levels to keep its wildshape impressive, all while increasing their health, BAB, and spells.

And the ability to keep the main villain alive and active with minimal help can be a huge boon. The class abilities are particularly tuned towards seeking revenge on a party that looted his corpse. With the new body/race, they could be fairly hard for the party to recognize, so he is presented with unique opportunities for infiltration and betrayal.


One thing to note: I noticed you had a reference in the guide to "your claws and bites and slams, etc. count as unarmed strikes due to FCT" this is either a misunderstanding on your part or an unintentionally misleading statement. FCT lets you pick one natural weapon to count as Unarmed; it doesn't work on all of them and it cannot be picked multiple times. So if you have claw, bite, and slam, you can select one from FCT(Claw), FCT(Bite), or FCT(Slam); you don't just take FCT and apply the benefit to all three.

Additionally, there's some debate as to whether Frostbite counts for Enforcer; the crux of the debate is that Enforcer specifies your "weapon damage" and there is a question as to whether the damage from Frostbite counts as "weapon damage" because touch spells aren't explicitly called out as being weapons as Rays are.

Lastly, you mention synergy with Magus due to Druids having an abundance of touch spells; keep in mind that the spell has to be on the Magus spell list in order to use it with Spellstrike. For non-Magus spells, you may need to use Broad Study arcana to utilize them.


Personally, I would consider taking Living Monolith. It gains an additional +2 against death effects at level 1 and at level 10, it becomes outright immune to them. Plus, you get to increase your size up to 3 times a day (at first level, as a swift action) and will eventually get some DR/- if you stick with it for a few levels. Also, you become immune to petrification at 9th level (which would be a total character level of 17, at minimum)

Granted, the feat tax is a bit irksome, but the other requirements are fairly easy to fulfill and, arguably, the +4 bonus to saves against suffocation from Endurance are useful against the suffocation spell, which (depending on GM ruling) is one of the things that can perma-kill you. If you're planning on going for things that mitigate your weaknesses anyway, that's fairly reasonable.

Full disclosure: I love the Living Monolith PrC, and probably would have wanted to find a way to make it work, regardless, but I think it syncs up really well.


The biggest problem, as your guide points out (similar to most other druid archetypes) is the wild shape level penalty, which is pretty darn big. That's what turns me off on almost all the archetypes. However, if you're playing a "caster" focused druid, it's not that bad. If you're playing a more melee oriented druid, it is pretty bad.

Still, if you had to pick an archetype, this one is my favorite.

Grand Lodge

EgakuDrew wrote:

Howdy all I have created an handbook for the Reincarnated Druid Archetype. I love this archetype but don't see much love for it. This is my first guide so if you have anything to add please let me know.

Enjoy

Hope this link works.

I read your document. You blunt your effectiveness with your preachy attitude in this paragraph. The 7 day cool down is "not a big stupid cool down" it's a balance for what the Many Lives ability gives you.

When writing a guide it's best to keep things tight and focused. Present opinions but avoid evangelizing. Let the reader make his or her own conclusions. And most importantly try to avoid the temptation to rant.


Might I suggest Dhampir as a green race? Any negative levels they gain go away for free after 24 hours.


lemeres wrote:

What is your take on using this archetype for NPC's? Particularly with villains. Do you have any particular advice for such approaches?

Since they would be under the GM's control, it would not be particularly easy to bump up an enemy 2 levels to keep its wildshape impressive, all while increasing their health, BAB, and spells.

And the ability to keep the main villain alive and active with minimal help can be a huge boon. The class abilities are particularly tuned towards seeking revenge on a party that looted his corpse. With the new body/race, they could be fairly hard for the party to recognize, so he is presented with unique opportunities for infiltration and betrayal.

I think the Reincarnated Druid works very well as a villain, particularly the neutral evil Lich route, but just as good as a Chaotic Neutral type or even evil highlander type. It would be especially haunting since you can control the reincarnate to make the npc more powerful with each death like you said. "Strike me down and I will become more powerful..." etc etc obi-wan.

It may force the party to eventually seek out necromancy as an easy solution to their problems. So if you as a DM like to put your parties in situations of moral quandary, it could be great fun.


Kazaan wrote:

One thing to note: I noticed you had a reference in the guide to "your claws and bites and slams, etc. count as unarmed strikes due to FCT" this is either a misunderstanding on your part or an unintentionally misleading statement. FCT lets you pick one natural weapon to count as Unarmed; it doesn't work on all of them and it cannot be picked multiple times. So if you have claw, bite, and slam, you can select one from FCT(Claw), FCT(Bite), or FCT(Slam); you don't just take FCT and apply the benefit to all three.

Additionally, there's some debate as to whether Frostbite counts for Enforcer; the crux of the debate is that Enforcer specifies your "weapon damage" and there is a question as to whether the damage from Frostbite counts as "weapon damage" because touch spells aren't explicitly called out as being weapons as Rays are.

Lastly, you mention synergy with Magus due to Druids having an abundance of touch spells; keep in mind that the spell has to be on the Magus spell list in order to use it with Spellstrike. For non-Magus spells, you may need to use Broad Study arcana to utilize them.

Many of these suggestions were things I was aware of but assumed others would be aware of as well. I figured the type of people to read the guides would be those who have read many other guides as I have. I will edit the guide to be more specific, thanks.


Okay I learned to quote multiple people. I think.

Arctic Sphinx wrote:

Personally, I would consider taking Living Monolith. It gains an additional +2 against death effects at level 1 and at level 10, it becomes outright immune to them. Plus, you get to increase your size up to 3 times a day (at first level, as a swift action) and will eventually get some DR/- if you stick with it for a few levels. Also, you become immune to petrification at 9th level (which would be a total character level of 17, at minimum)

Granted, the feat tax is a bit irksome, but the other requirements are fairly easy to fulfill and, arguably, the +4 bonus to saves against suffocation from Endurance are useful against the suffocation spell, which (depending on GM ruling) is one of the things that can perma-kill you. If you're planning on going for things that mitigate your weaknesses anyway, that's fairly reasonable.

Full disclosure: I love the Living Monolith PrC, and probably would have wanted to find a way to make it work, regardless, but I think it syncs up really well.

Having examined Suffocation (It is in the guide, I am unclear on the rules but my personal opinion) I do not think it would count as a death effect. Likewise if you are hit with this spell you may have time to Coup De Grace yourself.

I like Living Monolith but I was reluctant to use any prestige classes that didn't advance casting. The immunity to death effects sounds great but it comes in pretty late. I'll give it a mention since if someone is looking for a class that will feed into the monolith they might as well use the Druid.

LazarX wrote:


I read your document. You blunt your effectiveness with your preachy attitude in this paragraph. The 7 day cool down is "not a big stupid cool down" it's a balance for what the Many Lives ability gives you.

When writing a guide it's best to keep things tight and focused. Present opinions but avoid evangelizing. Let the reader make his or her own conclusions. And most importantly try to avoid the temptation to rant.

Fair criticism, I accept it. I will tighten up the language, thanks.

Azten wrote:
Might I suggest Dhampir as a green race? Any negative levels they gain go away for free after 24 hours.

I would love to include Dhampir as a green race. However it isn't on the table for Reincarnate vanilla and so would need to be added by the DM. One could argue that starting as a Dhampir would enable you to keep the negative energy thing through death but if we are using the assumption that physical racial traits are lost I think this counts as a physical part of the Dhampir's half-undead body.


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Hmm, I see what your saying, but I'm not reading anything in reincarnate saying you lies racial abilities from your starting race. I wish we could get an FAQ on what exactly you lose or gain.


Living monolith with Ib stone progresses spellcasting-1(to be honest i don't remember this. is it new somehow? its on d20pfsrd)...FWIW

my only qualm is what happens to your Ib stone when you reincarnate a mile away. is the stone "bound" to your soul and just appears with you(i would rule this way). or is it still attached to your corpse?

something else to add to your guide is a short discussion of FavClass Bonuses? and how they interact with reincarnate? or just take the HP/SP


Azten wrote:
Hmm, I see what your saying, but I'm not reading anything in reincarnate saying you lies racial abilities from your starting race. I wish we could get an FAQ on what exactly you lose or gain.

I agree an FAQ would be great, but in the past it has been noted that this spell, and other 3.5 holdovers like it are left intentionally vague so as to give the DM more control, dying is a tricky process and should be prone to some uncertainty I guess.

I interpret it like this. "It retains any class abilities, feats, or skill ranks it formerly possessed. Its class, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points are unchanged." and "The reincarnated creature gains all abilities associated with its new form, including forms of movement and speeds, natural armor, natural attacks, extraordinary abilities, and the like, but it doesn't automatically speak the language of the new form."

I take that to mean that most racial things are lost, barring the exception of things gained from class (such as Hateful Rager) and bonus feats (human half elf)

Especially since it states that it gains the extraordinary abilities of the new form, it doesn't say it loses the old ones but that's what I would infer; Extraordinary abilities gained by the race are tied to the race when gained. Thus, since Resist Level Drain is Ex it wouldn't hold.

However, if during the course of the campaign you were perhaps slain by a vampire but not thralled (cause you cant be) your DM might could see way to you reincarnating as a dhampir. Makes sense flavor wise and kind of cool.

Sandbox wrote:

Living monolith with Ib stone progresses spellcasting-1(to be honest i don't remember this. is it new somehow? its on d20pfsrd)...FWIW

my only qualm is what happens to your Ib stone when you reincarnate a mile away. is the stone "bound" to your soul and just appears with you(i would rule this way). or is it still attached to your corpse?

something else to add to your guide is a short discussion of FavClass Bonuses? and how they interact with reincarnate? or just take the HP/SP

Good pointing out about living monolith. That is a good catch and I didn't notice it before.

Favored Class bonuses are not affected by reincarnate but can only be taken by the race you are at the time. Yet they are not lost. So if you took the Half-Elf bonus to domain powers, then were reincarnated as a Gnoll, you would retain the bonus you gained but be unable to continue getting the bonus in the future.


Thank you for this guide. I've long been entranced with this archetype, and this refuels my drive to create one. They make great villains - that Mysterious Stranger ability is made for an NPC. This article makes me want to play one as a PC as well.

What do you think about Assassin as a prestige class? It's easy to qualify for, and the party will be freaked out continually being death-attacked by random animals.

Edit: I see now that Grey Gardener allows the same ability but based on Wisdom. Only once per day, but no 3 round charge-up, so that could be better.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

A Green Faith Acolyte's 3rd level ability, Hibernate, sounds great for Reincarnated Druids.


Karek Kogan wrote:

Thank you for this guide. I've long been entranced with this archetype, and this refuels my drive to create one. They make great villains - that Mysterious Stranger ability is made for an NPC. This article makes me want to play one as a PC as well.

What do you think about Assassin as a prestige class? It's easy to qualify for, and the party will be freaked out continually being death-attacked by random animals.

Edit: I see now that Grey Gardener allows the same ability but based on Wisdom. Only once per day, but no 3 round charge-up, so that could be better.

I'm glad you pointed that out, I will highlight it as a standout point for would-be assassins.

Azten wrote:
A Green Faith Acolyte's 3rd level ability, Hibernate, sounds great for Reincarnated Druids.

I was trying to find a use for this prestige class but it looked too similar to druid to matter. I see now it is perfect for a Lich type who is hiding in wait, biding their time till their strength is returned.


how about starting as Samsaran... it could be interesting.

Talk to DM about always reincarnating as a Samsaran?
or maybe by becoming a reincarnated druid you are getting off the Samsaran Wheel...

Mystic Past life to get Divine Favor(+Fates Favored Trait), Restoration,PlaneShift, Miracle...etc.

Samsarans get +2 vs Death/Necro stuff

+2INT/WIS is good as mental stats stay...
-2Con is bad tho...but if your gonna reincarnate into something else its not too bad. just have to survive those first few levels...


Sandbox wrote:

how about starting as Samsaran... it could be interesting.

Talk to DM about always reincarnating as a Samsaran?
or maybe by becoming a reincarnated druid you are getting off the Samsaran Wheel...

Mystic Past life to get Divine Favor(+Fates Favored Trait), Restoration,PlaneShift, Miracle...etc.

Samsarans get +2 vs Death/Necro stuff

+2INT/WIS is good as mental stats stay...
-2Con is bad tho...but if your gonna reincarnate into something else its not too bad. just have to survive those first few levels...

I already had Samsaran listed as a green choice, I'll highlight the +2 against death saves and the int/wis. the -2 con hurts.


nice guide.
you keep mention that summon bring Celestial - how ? druids dont get that...


Here's a fun thought. What happens to a Wyrwood Reincarnated Druid when it dies?

Sczarni

ooo this sounds so much fun lol, is this archetype legal for pfs?


EgakuDrew wrote:

Howdy all I have created an handbook for the Reincarnated Druid Archetype. I love this archetype but don't see much love for it. This is my first guide so if you have anything to add please let me know.

Enjoy

Hope this link works.

Samarasan is practically purple for a reincarnated druid.

Spell Immunity/Greater Spell Immunity means you can ignore the real threats to your existence.

There should be a list of the ultimate spells to choose.

Being a double immortal is made of joy exp.when 2 mental stat bonuses and physical stat penalties that will leave sooner..or later.

Nothing like getting stronger thru death!!


My GF absolutely loves this archetype. Personally, I'm more of a fan of the blight druid, but I love their aura a lot. That said, I've got a 2 player campaign coming up (my gf and I will be playing an AP alone, due to lack of a group), so I'm giving a serious look at this class.Love the guide, thanks a lot man.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Storm Kindler (Or, if SRD is used, must worship a god of storms, not just Gozreh). I flat out love this prestige, and the flavor potential with a reincarnated druid is fantastic. In effect, you become a (nearly) unending force of nature, the undying storm.

Might have to be careful though. A GM into puns may have you reincarnate into some form of red creature, perhaps a red oni (whatever they were called in PF), and your whirlwind shall forever be red (until the next time you die anyways). (For those who didn't catch this astronomical pun) Just, expect to get nick-named Jupiter in that case.


So I was looking at the guide again and remembered something when I was reading the monk section of the multi class section.

You aren't wearing wild armor when you use Wildshape, so your Wisdom would get added to your Armor Class while Wildshaped


Sorry, I caught up.

666bender wrote:

nice guide.

you keep mention that summon bring Celestial - how ? druids dont get that...

The summon nature's ally list on d20pfsrd.com lists several specifically Celestial creatures, most of which come from individual adventure paths.

Azten wrote:
Here's a fun thought. What happens to a Wyrwood Reincarnated Druid when it dies?

Assuming you are talking about the construct race from the race builder, a DM might consider making a separate table for similiar constructs. This is one of those cases where Reincarnate being open ended helps.

Deliox Creed wrote:
ooo this sounds so much fun lol, is this archetype legal for pfs?

As far as I can tell, according to Nethys, no.

insaneogeddon wrote:


Samarasan is practically purple for a reincarnated druid.

Spell Immunity/Greater Spell Immunity means you can ignore the real threats to your existence.

There should be a list of the ultimate spells to choose.

Being a double immortal is made of joy exp.when 2 mental stat bonuses and physical stat penalties that will leave sooner..or later.

Nothing like getting stronger thru death!!

There are so many spells that it's hard to hand pick the best ones, but Spell Immunity is definately a winner, I will add it to the guide.

Artemis Moonstar wrote:


I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Storm Kindler (Or, if SRD is used, must worship a god of storms, not just Gozreh). I flat out love this prestige, and the flavor potential with a reincarnated druid is fantastic. In effect, you become a (nearly) unending force of nature, the undying storm.

The Storm Kindler has great flavor stuff, but for normal Druids many of the abilities go to waste. However, with the reincarnated druid your wildshape is already not very good, so taking Storm Kindler for those who want flight is a good substitute. I can't tell if it's an actual polymorph effect, meaning it might stack with wildshape?

Azten wrote:

So I was looking at the guide again and remembered something when I was reading the monk section of the multi class section.

You aren't wearing wild armor when you use Wildshape, so your Wisdom would get added to your Armor Class while Wildshaped

After looking around online I can't seem to find an official ruling on whether or not Wild Armor stacks with Monk bonus AC. It wouldn't come up until high level anyway, so I would say unless the DM rules they stack that it behooves the player to decide if they want to be armorless or not. The natural bonus from wild shape + monk ac I think would cover the loss of armor pretty well, at least in low levels.


I saw a post the other day about Druid guides being out of date, so I have updated it with some options from advanced class guide.

In summary reincarnated druid received very little. There are new feat options available, outlined in the feat section and there is a new ranger archetype that makes Shapeshifting Hunter more attractive.

If there are other options that have become available that I am not aware of, let me know please.


Goblins get +4 to dex.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Goblins get +4 to dex.

Looking at the reincarnate table on the SRD shows them as getting a +2. they may start with a +4 when you roll one but only get +2 on reincarnate


One thing you might want to look at adding is an analysis of using the Shaman spell list with Mystic Past Life.

At a glance, it provides a lot of the same options as Cleric plus False Life (and Greater), Fly, and Overland Flight. Gaining flight spells isn't as big a deal for a druid, since you have Wild Shape, but huge flying dinosaurs are always fun.

Also, in your section on wordcasting, you may want to mention the Perfect Body spell. It looks like a good option for a melee-focused druid that doesn't want to invest too heavily in gear that can potentially be lost.

Sovereign Court

First off: interesting guide. Kudos are due.

I like the archetype myself, I have a soft spot for "immortal patron behind the scenes, guiding civilization" kind of characters. That said, I'm worried about how gear-dependent PFS is and how annoying it would be to have to start from scratch if your body's looted beyond recovery.

If your GM is sick of Big Six dependency, maybe you can lobby to reduce WBL and make a lot of the Big Six bonuses built-in as permanent non-gear bonuses.

---

That said, some nitpicks about your guide:

I don't think Planar Wildshape lets you go through DR/Good. That is not paladin-smite there. And you don't get an alignment subtype. You don't count as [good].

Shade of the Uskwood: if you lose the token you can't cast spells unless you get a new one. That sounds pretty bad if you're expecting to be separated from your gear at the hands of your enemies. I should think this class is trying as hard as possible to avoid specific gear dependency?


ZZTRaider wrote:

One thing you might want to look at adding is an analysis of using the Shaman spell list with Mystic Past Life.

At a glance, it provides a lot of the same options as Cleric plus False Life (and Greater), Fly, and Overland Flight. Gaining flight spells isn't as big a deal for a druid, since you have Wild Shape, but huge flying dinosaurs are always fun.

Also, in your section on wordcasting, you may want to mention the Perfect Body spell. It looks like a good option for a melee-focused druid that doesn't want to invest too heavily in gear that can potentially be lost.

Good point about shaman, ill take a look. Thanks


Ascalaphus wrote:

First off: interesting guide. Kudos are due.

I like the archetype myself, I have a soft spot for "immortal patron behind the scenes, guiding civilization" kind of characters. That said, I'm worried about how gear-dependent PFS is and how annoying it would be to have to start from scratch if your body's looted beyond recovery.

If your GM is sick of Big Six dependency, maybe you can lobby to reduce WBL and make a lot of the Big Six bonuses built-in as permanent non-gear bonuses.

---

That said, some nitpicks about your guide:

I don't think Planar Wildshape lets you go through DR/Good. That is not paladin-smite there. And you don't get an alignment subtype. You don't count as [good].

Shade of the Uskwood: if you lose the token you can't cast spells unless you get a new one. That sounds pretty bad if you're expecting to be separated from your gear at the hands of your enemies. I should think this class is trying as hard as possible to avoid specific gear dependency?

First of all, reincarnated druid isnt pfs legal. So no worries about that. As far as loot dependency goes, you have a supernatural ability to track your belongings after death, that helps alot if your character has items they can't afford to lose.

Also, i had thought that smite lets you go through all dr regardless of type, if you could point me to a source that clarifies template smite vs paladin smite, id correct mistakes of course.

You are quite right about totem dependency being a big draw back. Ive outlined some complicated familiar fixes for such an occassion, if someone can think of a better solution, id listen to it. The solution as to what to do with your important belongings always varies and may be a character decision, making it an important roleplay choice


If you're alignment is X Good, being a Samsaran is extra nice... for being able to cast Holy Sword at level 7.


Azten wrote:
If you're alignment is X Good, being a Samsaran is extra nice... for being able to cast Holy Sword at level 7.

I completely agree, i feel like i have extolled the virtues of holy sword enough, especially for a druid. Unholy sword is also available but anitpaladin has a markedly worse spell list.

Sovereign Court

EgakuDrew wrote:


First of all, reincarnated druid isnt pfs legal. So no worries about that. As far as loot dependency goes, you have a supernatural ability to track your belongings after death, that helps alot if your character has items they can't afford to lose.

Erm, I meant to write PF, not PFS. PF is equipment-dependent.

The archetype writes that you can track "your remains". I think they mean your corpse, not your equipment.

EgakuDrew wrote:


Also, i had thought that smite lets you go through all dr regardless of type, if you could point me to a source that clarifies template smite vs paladin smite, id correct mistakes of course.

Basically, nowhere in the Celestial simple template does it say you get the [good] descriptor, so you don't get it. And it doesn't say "Smite Evil as a paladin", it's a separate ability that just happens to also be called Smite Evil. It doesn't do anything more than it says in the template.

EgakuDrew wrote:


You are quite right about totem dependency being a big draw back. Ive outlined some complicated familiar fixes for such an occassion, if someone can think of a better solution, id listen to it. The solution as to what to do with your important belongings always varies and may be a character decision, making it an important roleplay choice

Sadly I don't have any great solutions. But I do think you should avoid creating any dependencies on unique items, like a Living Monolith's Ka/Ba stone or an Uskwood's totem thingy. Because that's almost as bad as a lich wearing his phylactery into battle.

A poor solution would be to create several hidden caches of equipment to get you started again, including some ready money. It'll split your WBL, which isn't good. But it does reduce risks.

One interesting way to circumvent the trouble with Leadership might be to set up a secret society, where all members are supposed to be masked. He who knows all the secret signs and stuff is the leader of the society (that's you). Basically, since nobody's supposed to see each other's real faces, it'd be easier for you to get going again after switching bodies. And you might even be able to hide just how many minions are dying, thus offsetting the Leadership penalties.


Ascalaphus wrote:


Erm, I meant to write PF, not PFS. PF is equipment-dependent.

The archetype writes that you can track "your remains". I think they mean your corpse, not your equipment.

No problem, I agree PF is very equipment dependent, but you can build yourself to be equipment independent, and I think it helps to balance this type of character.

Realistically, Liches are powerful because they have time to prepare like batman, infinite time. You have the same time, losing your things every now and then motivates the character to look for aid from a party, giving them a reason to leave what is essentially druid torpor.

I think the 'your remains' is also up for debate. By intention it could mean either only your corpse, or your corpse and whats been done to it. If the DM is picky, you are still a Druid and spellcaster, finding your things after death can be accomplished through magic or good old fashioned survival tracking, and the whole ritual of it is sort of part and parcel for this type of character.

I will add in your point of view, as I think others will see it that way as well.

Ascalaphus wrote:


Basically, nowhere in the Celestial simple template does it say you get the [good] descriptor, so you don't get it. And it doesn't say "Smite Evil as a paladin", it's a separate ability that just happens to also be called Smite Evil. It doesn't do anything more than it says in the template.

I see now what you mean, I think having two abilities have the same name and different effects is foolish but right is right, I will point it out in the guide. Still, it is a large boost to damage and does help chew through some DR

Ascalaphus wrote:


Sadly I don't have any great solutions. But I do think you should avoid creating any dependencies on unique items, like a Living Monolith's Ka/Ba stone or an Uskwood's totem thingy. Because that's almost as bad as a lich wearing his phylactery into battle.

Well, a lich may decide to do that, and many of them do. It's not the wisest choice but still a choice. (Vordekai, the Lich from kingmaker wears his when he fights you)

Some people will play their Reincarnate Druid as a person without fear, some will play their Reincarnate Druid as being more afraid of death than anything else in the world.

So there's the argument, is it optimal to carry things you need for class features with you into battle if you are a character who operates mostly through the corner mechanic of death?
In a game where your gear can be more important than your class, and the DM controls what kills you and what happens in the 24 hours you are dead, perhaps worrying about too many contingencies will slow you down. You can choose, let the gear come and go like the rest of the world (you may outlive your gear) or set up treasure hordes and guardians (become the lich you emulate)

Ascalaphus wrote:


One interesting way to circumvent the trouble with Leadership might be to set up a secret society, where all members are supposed to be masked. He who knows all the secret signs and stuff is the leader of the society...

This is an option, I think people who are creative in their use of what they can establish in the world are the type of people who will love playing this type of character, I'll encourage players who truly want leadership to try and be creative.

Thanks for the input


I definitely think there's something to be said for trying to make a gear independent build. I really hate that the Feral Shifter archetype doesn't stack with Reincarnated Druid. I think they'd work really well together if they did.

While I've primarily been looking at a necromancer build, I've also been looking at the whole Fist of the Forest thing in the Way of the Angry Bear guide. It's a shame that there's the small hit to Wild Shape, but I don't think that's a huge deal.

I do think there's a lot to be said for the monk dip, though. Picking up wisdom to AC is pretty nice, considering you'll probably be caught without any armor at least a few times (and if you make use of Wild Shape, you probably don't want to invest in the Wild enchantment with the risk of loss). The potential scaling to damage is also pretty awesome.

I think you'd probably want at least 7 levels of druid for that, though. Having access to 4th level spells for Strong Jaw (and the Purify word, if you take Experimental Spellcaster) seems pretty worthwhile. It's interesting figuring out where the real breakpoint is, though... Once you're at 7, it's easy to keep going to 8th to get your second domain power. At 8, it's easy to go to 9th for 5th level spells. And at that point, you might as well go to 10th to avoid having to take Shaping Focus.

All of it is very tempting.


ZZTRaider wrote:


All of it is very tempting.

The monk dip is fine, I'm also a fan of the FoF build, I played a similar character style in older 3.5 when wildshape was vastly different.

There is two cut off points in my opinion. Level 6 for if you wanted Shapeshifting Hunter, and level 7 if you are a Samsaran. Fourth Level spells is where you can get restoration or holy sword.

If you want neither favored enemy or to be a samsaran, then the best cut off is 5 for total multiclass (druid 5/ fighter 15 or something) or ASAP for another prestige. Generally, prestige will be the better option as it will allow you to retain some caster levels.

If you just want a character with Wild Shape and Immortality, there's always the option of Brightness Seeker, which gains exactly those things. Monk 5/Brightness Seeker 5 will make you a better monk, since you can monastic legacy cover those levels, you could also shaping focus and cover most of the wild shape levels.


Would you recommend the Troth of the Forgotten Pharaoh feat? It can allow you to commit suicide at any point.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Would you recommend the Troth of the Forgotten Pharaoh feat? It can allow you to commit suicide at any point.

Honestly I was all in on this feat until I saw that you lose 3 hit points every time you use it. I can't see a way to ever regain those hit points either.

There is a Ring that does a similiar effect, and a spell in paladin as well, but this feat specifically says it prevents people from playing with your body and I think that alone is worth mentioning. It's also very flavorful. The damage and blind isn't very good, but because it can activate 'when you are dead' it can stack with those other things.

Thanks for pointing it out, I'll add it to the guide.


I'm pretty sure the 3 HP loss is supposed to be related to the scar. It takes some DM fiat, but I think it's pretty reasonable to say that while you'll have to undergo the 1 hour ritual (and lose 3 HP) in each new body, the HP loss is a physical thing and therefore won't persist through a reincarnation.


ZZTRaider wrote:
I'm pretty sure the 3 HP loss is supposed to be related to the scar. It takes some DM fiat, but I think it's pretty reasonable to say that while you'll have to undergo the 1 hour ritual (and lose 3 HP) in each new body, the HP loss is a physical thing and therefore won't persist through a reincarnation.

Thats a good point, physical ailments don't travel. It can only be removed with a wish or miracle, which means the intention may be that it travels through death.

Will edit

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