Do Skill Focus, Skill Feats, Racial Bonuses, or Trait Bonuses ever count as trained skills?


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

I've been playing an Angelkin Aasimar Barbarian recently that took Skill Focus Knowledge Planes at first level as a prerequisite for Eldritch Heritage. His racial and feat together would give him a +5 on the Knowledge check, but he doesn't have any ranks in it yet. Knowledge and some other skills can be used untrained, though only those with a DC 10. Would I simply be hitting that cap really easily, or could I make harder checks?

What about an even more extreme case of a level 3 Grimspawn Tiefling that has the Vagabond Child trait, Deft Hands, and Skill Focus Disable Device but no ranks in Disable Device? That's a +8 to something they possibly can't use without proper "training". Would this character be some kind of trap stopping prodigy that simply hasn't unlocked their potential? Could they make checks against simpler devices and locks?

That does seem like enough inborn talent to at least give it a shot (maybe with some kind of penalty), but I'm wondering if there is an official PFS rule.

Shadow Lodge

No.

The Exchange

Your question seems difficult to understand. If you want to have a skill be trained, why not just put the 1 rank into and then be able to attempt checks that extend beyond just DC 10.

Especially since Vagabond child, in your example above, lets you treat disable device as a class skill. So even just putting 1 rank into will bring it from a +8 to +12 and be allowed to attempt any level DC check.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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The definition of "trained" is that you have at least one rank in it.

Silver Crusade

Disable Device is just an example, since it's one of the few skills that can't even be attempted without a single rank.

I suppose the question came about from having a character that has Eldritch Heritage and only has Skill Focus due to it being a requirement. More specifically it's a Barbarian that will later become a Dragon Disciple; high Strength and Charisma, but low Intelligence and barely any skill points to spend (Most of which are going into the Knowledge Arcana prerequisite). Completely designed around fighting, not using skills.

Thanks for the answer. I was just curious if I could use those bonuses to maybe identify an enemy I'm fighting, but otherwise had no real plans to use the skill.


Well, if you want something in-character to think about, should this character become a dragon disciple without having any training at all? A prestige class is prestigious. It's like, you can know everything there is to know about medicine from without ever stepping into a school, but without that proof of training you'll never be a real doctor and get the benefits of being one. Also something some people don't think about. A Disciple of a Dragon. It's not something you just become. A spellcaster uses their trained knowledge of the arcane to infuse their bodies with power and awaken their draconic heritage. So you have to ask, should your character be able to do that without any training at all? The modifier is more like your inborn ability to comprehend that, but you are still unrefined in how to do it. Like, some people have the potential to be great swimmers, if they ever really learned how to do it instead of just, say, reading about it. (Sheldon from big bang theory). Consider that massive misc mod bonus to the skill as untapped potential and then get the training to unleash it. Yes self training can count. Autodidacts and all that.

If you want the mechanics reason, the answer is because that's the rules. Tough.

Also if the DC of the check is higher than 10, then no you can't even make the knowledge roll no matter how high your misc mod. You need to be trained. You know, like reading an encyclopedia about certain monsters and studying it. You can't just "know" something without some sort of learning. You're just have a great potential to soak that info up if you train in it.


No. Cough up a rank. You're a barbarian, not a fighter, you can afford it.

Sczarni

Just use one Favored Class Bonus for an extra skill point.

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