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Been reading the Steven Brust series of novels again.
I would like to make a Vlad Taltos type of character. Obviously a sorcerer/witch/rogue/fighter/assassin will not work very well in PF.
I don't want to try a duplicate all the exact abilities. I want to try and match the feel of the character.
So:
- He has a familiar. Probably the Pseudodragon Improved Familiar is the closest.
- He uses magic but is not a magical powerhouse. But not much in combat except maybe as a distraction. He uses a lot of low level divinations.
- Has to have some ranks in profession chef and craft cooking.
- he is sneaky, but there are some better. Can open lock and pick pockets but many are better. So he has the rogue type skills but he’s nowhere as good as a master thief.
- He has a unique (at least for his area) fencing style with the rapier. Weapon Finesse and/or Combat Expertise might be enough to emulate this.
- In the novels he is human amongst Elves, but he shorter and weaker than almost everyone around. So in PF terms I think he would have to be an Elf (maybe even Halfling or Gnome).
- He has a loyal organization and friends but is not terribly good looking and it doesn’t talk about him being especially likable. So I’m thinking ranks in diplomacy and return loyalty more than a super high charisma.
- Definitely the cohorts and followers fit for the leadership feat (maybe even multiple times).
- anything I'm forgetting?
So I’m thinking to start with rogue/witch and see what happens.
How would you build a Vlad flavored PC?
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Rogue/Witch is a really bad idea, IMO.
I'd actually go Bard. Most of Vlad's spells fall under Bard spells, and it gives you the Charisma for Eldritch Heritage, which can get you a Familiar. Grab a Trait for Disable Device and you're good to go on skills, too.
It doesn't fit the 'low Charisma' thing, but I'd actually argue that Vlad is enormously charismatic, and it fits just about every other way. Heck, he even inspires his allies, but you can go Archaeologist if you want to avoid that particular theme.
In terms of race, I'd go Human or Halfling, he's also shorter lived than Dragaerans, so Elf or Gnome seems pretty inappropriate.
Inquisitor seems to fit the bill. Divine magic has a lot of good divinatin (no pun intended) spells. 6+ Skill point, can use Wis instead of char for social skill, so you can have the "leading but not charismatic" guy. Only thing missing is the familiar, but there should be some workaround somewhere.
I can see bard (especially the archeologist). I always thought of him as more of a intelligence based prepared caster than a personality driven spontaneous caster. But it has possibilities.
What do you think about some rogue or duelist levels for the trap checking, evasion, sneak attack (or precise strike)? I think just straight bard might be too magical and not enough sneak/martial for Vlad.
The life span thing didn't seem like such a big deal except that Vlad can't spend decades letting a plan come together. A lot of content is spent on how he has to fight different because he is shorter and weaker than the Dragaerans. So mechanically the Elf, Gnome, or Halfling seem to work. But it thought maybe the Gnome and Halfling were maybe too short. So I was leaning toward Elf. But maybe Halfling would be best.
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I really had not considered inquisitor at all. I will have to give that some thought.
Everyone in that universe is almost certainly a gestalt character in pathfinder. Its an extermely 'high powered' world. And almost all the main character besides taltos are effectively full casters and full martial characters at the same time.
Taltos also doesnt just use a rapier, he also uses alot of thrown 'knives' so its a bit more complicated to replicate his combat style.
When I replicated him i used the rogue genius class: Shadow Assasin. Its dagger master ability works. And its a sneak wisdom based class that I think works well for taltos. I just skipped some of the more 'mystical' stuff. But it has alot of the skills andthings taltos uses but with a more signifiant combat feel the the rogue.
In terms of his witch magic, that pretty much requires some kind of ritual house ruling. That magic doesnt fit neatly into any pathfinder caster. Its slow, time consuming and doesnt have defined parameters. You can lift a building with it, or find a person, or do all sorts of things.
I actually worked up a campaign setting book based on those novels if your interested i can post it sometime tonight when i get home.
The standard fighting style in the Dragaeran Empire seems to be with a two handed weapon. Vlad's fencing is something like pre-errata Crane Wing compared to their Power Attack.
His ritualistic witchcraft/psionics isn't going to be easy to do in PF. You could dig up incantations from D&D 3.5 or simply write your own version. I can't think of a way to give him the out of combat abilities without in-combat abilities in PF.
He has a ridiculously high perception skill & knowledge (local). Death attack for sure, maybe sneak attack. Some stealth skills including disable device but not trapfinding, Vlad is weak to magic traps. Maybe expert / assassin? Or rogue / assassin with an archetype which loses trapfinding. Or even inquisitor / assassin.
He's definitely smaller than the elfs of the Dragaeran Empire but maybe not a size category smaller.
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I actually worked up a campaign setting book based on those novels if your interested i can post it sometime tonight when i get home.
We've never really considered the gestalt rules unless we've only got 2 players. I guess I don't feel like they are necessarily all full casters and full martials. Just that they are all middlin high multiclass. The few people mentioned that are just casters (or just martials) are quite a bit above the lowbrows that learn both.
As I said, I don't feel I can duplicate all the abilities. PF doesn't have ritual magic. So it seemed just using some divinations outside of combat kinda fit that bill.
Yes, not sure why, but I forgot about the thrown dagger thing.
Not familiar with the Shadow Assassin, I will try to look it up when I get home tonight.
He is human in the book. But I look at it as he is shorter and weaker than the dominant race which is called elf. In nearly and PF setting, AP, or homebrew; the dominant race is human. In those settings a shorter and weaker non-dominant race would almost have to be Elf, Halfling, or Gnome. (Or something kludged up from the race builder.)
I did consider the ninja. Just not sure it has enough magic for my image of Vlad. I might look into the Ivestigator. Good suggestion.
I forgot that Vlad did have trouble with magical traps. So you are right he should lose trapfinding.
I would probably go with Magus-Hexcrafter. That gives you some witch abilities, prepared spell casting, and a familiar (as an arcana.)
I would also keep him human. His flexibility is commented on, an the extra skill point and feat represent that really nicely. True, in his world humans are weaker than the most common race, but simply put, you aren't going to be playing in that world, and making him an elf or anything else takes away more than it adds from the concept in my opinion.
Vlad might not be as physically strong as some of the Dragaerans, and is certainly shorter, but he isn't a wimp and has been beating them up since he was a kid.
Liosh should probably be a Shadow Drake, it is the most flying reptile like thing that isn't good aligned, and Vlad isn't a good person.
Don't think I like magus. Most of it's abilities are focused on using spells in combat which he doesn't really do very much.
Hmm... Human does model the flexibility aspect very well. needs more thought. Yes, he was beating them up. But by being vicious and precise not as strong as them. So I guess if I made him at the short limit for human and just kept the strength low. It should have the same feel.
Yes, the shadow drake would be a better familiar choice. I forgot about that one.
I agree that Vlad doesn't use spells in combat like a magus does. However, he does have some seriously damaging attacks with his weapons. In Pathfinder, to simulate that you either need sneak attack (a sub-par choice anyway, and really hard to be effective at with magic as well), a power attack style build, or a Magus with spellstrike.
Honestly, Eastern Witchcraft is psionics, and without psionics in the game you will be shoehorning something that doesn't quite fit when building the character. Likewise, "elves" being 7' tall is a campaign thing, as well as "everyone can draw on the Imperial Orb to cast some spells". Most of this is out the window in a generic Pathfinder game.
To best emmulate Vlad in a standard Pathfinder game, I'd go rogue (or ninja) with some bard (archaeologist, or some other selfish archetype) for his magic. Use rogue/ninja tricks on combat feats to simulate his Eastern fencing style, and pick up Improved Familiar (Loiosh IS a pseudodragon, albeit with the serial numbers filed off. That's 100% what Brust was modeling the character after, as he had played D&D back in the day). Finally, get some levels of Assassin in. See if your DM is ok with your character being Chaotic Neutral and still getting the pseudodragon and the Assassin PrC.
A little magic, a familiar, a lot of sneak attacking, and a ruthless streak a mile wide, that's Vlad.
Feint and sneak attack would be the closest representation IMO. It's not a strong style in PF though. If this is designed to be a playable character in a standard PF adventure as opposed to a thought experiment you might have to sacrifice some fidelity to the books there.
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I agree that Vlad doesn't use spells in combat like a magus does. However, he does have some seriously damaging attacks with his weapons. In Pathfinder, to simulate that you either need sneak attack (a sub-par choice anyway, and really hard to be effective at with magic as well), a power attack style build, or a Magus with spellstrike.
Or a Bard with buffs, Arcane Strike, and Piranha Strike. That works, too.
There is no way to run him as written in the books, because there is no witchcraft equal in PF. You will either end up playing a class where you won't be happy because it has too much direct magic (any caster type) or not enough (any melee type). Nothing will make you happy here.
I'd say you run him as a slayer and see if you can get the familiar rogue talent approved by your GM and call it good.
I was thinking the Duelist Precise Strike might simulate Vlad's damaging attacks and 'Eastern fencing' style.
I don't think the witchcraft really fits psionics either. But that is probably closer. I think it comes closer to what I have read about 4th Ed ritual magic. Not sure as I haven't played it. Anyway the feel of not using spells in combat is pretty easy to do if I just don't take any spells that are useful in combat. Out of combat it rarely makes a difference if it takes a round or 10 min.
I think that I agree with him being human for the versatility and just make him short-ish and weak-ish.
Not intended as just a thought experiment. I might play the character as a PC. In which case the books give me a ready back up on personality and how to play him when I'm stumped.
OR
I will use this is a major PC the party will work initially work for and later against (or maybe the other way around).
This is certainly not a situation where nothing will make me happy. I acknowledge that it will not duplicate Vlad. There are already at least 3 ideas that I could be happy with. I'm just trying to see which comes closer to my mental image of Vlad.
I think I'm currently leaning toward Archeologist/Duelist with Eldritch Heritage and Improved familiar to gain the familiar.
There are actually pretty descent ritual magic rule in the rogue genius games product the dare devil. I would probably use those for human witchcraft in a dragaera game now that I think about it. And they can be taken as feats, so no need to take a spell casting class.
So... not shooting for Spellbreaker or the latter Lady Teldra then?
Well, not until high levels anyway.
Spellbreaker - Hmm... I suppose a Rod of Absorption
Lady Teldra - Well I think that would have to be an artifact level intelligent weapon.