So what would it's stats revert to?
The way I see it you'd use the same HD and such that the animal companion has when it died. Neither the arcane bond nor any of the templates suggest that they lose the HD and statistics on death.
Keep in mind, you can't re animate someone elses critter without the owners permission.
It becomes whatever kind of undead you're making out of it. Parts is parts. It doesn't matter if they used to be to Razorfang the mighty t rex or just a t rex.
|
my idea was to play a Seperatist Cleric of Urgothoa with the Animal domain, and Sacrifice my animal companion to Urgothoa every session, prepare a gourmet meal from the flesh, then raise the bones as a skeleton.
*pauses, with mouth open and index finger up*
Hrmmm.
Good question.
Lemme think that one over.
|
|
So, let's take a look at the Spinosaurus from the Bestiary, and the Spinosaurus as an Animal Companion. I chose this as my example because it has the highest strength of any Animal Companion and would most likely become the popular choice for such a tactic.
The Bestiary version is Gargantuan, with 20 hit dice, and a Strength of 34.
The Animal Companion version is either Medium or Large, with variable hit dice, and a Strength that can get up to 30ish.
I would never allow a level 1-6 PC to Animate their Medium-sized Spinosaurus and expect to get a Gargantuan Skeleton. The most they'd get would be a Medium-sized Skeleton.
So... I suppose one possible method for figuring this out would be to apply the Young Template to a Gargantuan Skeleton three times. That would lower its Strength from 34 to 22, its bite damage from 2d8 to 1d6, and its claw damage from 2d6 to 1d4.
Net result is attacks that deal 1d6+6 / 1d4+6 / 1d4+6
And, since no sane GM would allow you to treat your Animal Companion's corpse as a 20 hit die creature, I suppose the most balanced practice would be to go off of the number of hit dice the creature had when it died.
So, let's toss out a number, 5, since that's when Clerics get Animate Dead. Animating a 5 hit die, Medium-sized Skeleton nets it a +3 BAB, a +2 Natural Armor, and the attacks listed earlier above (all at +9 to-hit).
At 5th level... you know... that's not unbalancing.
Creepy, and definitely evil, but not overpowered...
|
|
Moving on to 7th level, when the Animal Companion becomes Large-sized, and has 6 hit die...
BAB is +4, Strength is 26 (+8), and it's large (-1), which means its attacks are now:
Bite +11 (1d8+8) and 2 Claws +11 (1d6+8)
A dedicated Fighter can pump out much more damage than that at 7th level, and other than HD increases the Skeleton will never improve beyond this. It doesn't have feats, tricks, or skills, and is mindless. If it gets dropped to zero, it's dead.
I still don't think that's unbalancing (although still just as creepy and evil).
BigNorseWolf, it sounds like you're saying it would use the base stats in the bestiary? Because default T-Rex stats are much better (and larger sized) than T-Rex animal companions.
Nope. It would just be generic Zombie animal medium sized. I think the only thing that matters is its size and bite damage.
PFS has very strict rules about undead, so my idea was to play a Seperatist Cleric of Urgothoa with the Animal domain, and Sacrifice my animal companion to Urgothoa every session, prepare a gourmet meal from the flesh, then raise the bones as a skeleton.
It works. Just don't be surprised if some of the druids and paladins want to set you on fire. you might actually get a "hell no I'm not stabilizing him" out of some of the other players.
|
|
I'm on the fence as to whether or not the "sacrificing" aspect would be considered an evil act in Society.
Previously I ruled that a worshiper of Zon-Kuthon sacrificing a prisoner would be considered an evil act, but I'm not sure where I stand with regards to non-sentient animals.
It's certainly an expensive build idea with much potential to never be viable. You not only have to pay for the material components every session, but possibly an atonement as well, depending on your GM. Not to mention the reaction from other players/characters.
It's really not worth it, IMO.
Though I'm definitely getting ideas for some evil NPCs in my home campaign ;-).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm seeing enough table variation in this to make this a bad idea for pfs.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
I'm seeing enough table variation in this to make this a bad idea for pfs.
+1 on "this will be subject to table variance"
There are no rules to explicitly say an Animal Companion retains it's HD after death or after ceasing to be an Animal Companion.
So there will always be table variance that depends on permissive or restrictive interpretations of RAW.
As a pathfinder though, its a reaaly odd scenario where you can't come across some bodies. That ahh.. were TOTALLY like that when you got there, is swear.
As a GM I would probably tell you it's raised as the worse of either the base animal or animal companion stats.
|
|
Just keep in mind that if you go that route your Animal Companion won't begin play knowing all of its tricks. Switching Companions from scenario to scenario is brutal.
Switching out an AC places a normal animal in the wild, not an enhanced one. If the AC made it large from medium, the released animal is no longer large.
ACs cannot be undead, so undead cannot be an AC. Since it is not an AC, it gets none of the AC benefits (HD, stats, size, etc.).
As to the dino mentioned, I would say you get an undead version of the base creature the AC template was applied to. Since the bestiary's 20HD dino is not the AC base, it is also not the undead base. Since you have the base AC stats (in order to apply the AC template benefits), you have the stats needed for the undead.
/cevah
Switching out an AC places a normal animal in the wild, not an enhanced one. If the AC made it large from medium, the released animal is no longer large.
Well thats kinda the problem here. If he has say, a roc companion and he kills it .. what size is it now? It would be ridiculous if it suddenly grew into a huge roc, and there are no stats for a medium one. You'd have to convert.. somehow... and thats always a little iffy.
If you're going to do this (and flutter has a pointy stick that she will set on fire if you do) make sure to pick an animal companion with the same size as its wild counterpart, like a wolf, so you know you have a wolf corpse to template up.
Switching out an AC places a normal animal in the wild, not an enhanced one. If the AC made it large from medium, the released animal is no longer large.
Well thats kinda the problem here. If he has say, a roc companion and he kills it .. what size is it now? It would be ridiculous if it suddenly grew into a huge roc, and there are no stats for a medium one. You'd have to convert.. somehow... and thats always a little iffy.
If you're going to do this (and flutter has a pointy stick that she will set on fire if you do) make sure to pick an animal companion with the same size as its wild counterpart, like a wolf, so you know you have a wolf corpse to template up.
Which is why there were a bunch of threads about Roc companions and size. The released companion is the size of the creature that was made into the companion, not the size of the Bestiary Roc.
Take your stats for the Roc companion. Subtract out the benefits conferred by being an AC, and that is the base creature. I believe the AC rules explain how to modify a standard animal. Using this to backwards engineer the base Roc from the companion does not give you the Bestiary Roc, but does give you the base for the undead spell used.
/cevah
And if the DM wants to use a different formula/method/ disallow the entire thing?
|
|
ACs cannot be undead, so undead cannot be an AC. Since it is not an AC, it gets none of the AC benefits (HD, stats, size, etc.).While I understand your logic, that's not actually a rule in Pathfinder.
While I understand your dissent, you're going to have to accept table variation and the opinions of GMs like Cevah.
The last thing you should do is assert that you know what the rules are, when there really aren't any.
|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
that's not actually a rule in Pathfinder.
There is no rules stating what happens to an AC when it ceases to be an AC and no rule stating that being an AC fundamentally changes its DNA.
So you will have GM's that assume one of these:
- Being an AC changes the animal's DNA and when it ceases being an AC it is still über
- Being an AC temporarily changes the animal's stats until such time as it is no longer an AC from being dismissed, being awakened, dying, etc.
