What about an Oracle. I hear those are pretty good.
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I have to weigh in on the rolled stats thing. See back in 1993 when we started playing 2nd ed we used to roll 3d6 in order no rerolls. And while we had fun with it, it was an accepted thing that we would be playing a different game with different characters next weekend anyway. Nobody complained and nobody tried to kill off their characters to get a reroll, you used to be punished by being a level lower with 1st level starting money for dying, intentionally or not. By 1996 we had moved on to Shadowrun and World of Darkness, because they let us make the characters we wanted to make and tell the stories we wanted to tell. We didn't come back until 2000 when 3rd ed said "hey, don't leave us, we'll let you make the character that you want, we promise." This is anecdotal, but about 30 people just in my county in my age group abandoned the game for 4 years over it, the philosophical difference was real before the current generation ever started playing.
I'm playing in a 3d6 and no swaps Pathfinder (Core only, human only) game at the moment. (Oh, and you roll hit points, even at level 1.) I was lucky enough to get a 14 Charisma (16 with racial bonus) which means I can play a sorcerer and be vaguely effective.
It does require a different attitude. You can't have 'a character you want to play'. You have to be willing to play anything and invent a character to fit the stats.
I agreed to the conditions so I can't really complain about having to play a 4-point-buy character with an Int of 7 and 3 hit points.
Although I think the words I used when I agreed were "I think this is a bad idea but I'd like to be able to say I'd done it." Because I like to be able to make informed comments on subjects like this, such as "It is very hard to beat a CR 4 monster with a level 1 party under these circumstances."
I sometimes like to roll up random characters just to see what comes to mind. Looking at your rolls, this is what I would probably do.
Jacob Proundfoot: 1st level CN abyssal Sorcerer (favored class bonus to hp)
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 8, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 19
Feats: Point Blank Shot
traits: Havoc of society, stealth as a class skill and +1 to stealth
Skills: Bluff, Intimidate, Spellcraft, Stealth (class skill from trait)
Spells: 0th level - Acid splash, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation 1st level - endure elements, silent image
Important equipment: Vial of acid
Jacob's primary attack is his acid splash. with his feats, traits, equipment and bloodline, he is usually +5 to hit range touch, doing 1d3 + 5 damage
As a child, Jacob Proundfoot was strong, fast, tough, clever, and people liked him. He was one of the best slingers in the small halfling village, and he wanted to become an adventurer. So one day he convinced a couple of his friends to go with him on an adventure, and go with him to a nearby cave he had found. Armed with his sling and his two friends, they entered the cave.
While the cave was empty, to his disappointment and his two friends' relief, at the back of the cave, Jacob discovered a strange outcropping. Moving it, a secret door opened. Not being the wisest of halflings, he went in, while his two friends stayed behind. There he found an odd gem, and touched it.
There was a mighty crack, and a strange otherworldly being appeared. His friends fled, but Jacob was going to be an adventurer, and was going to fight evil, so he slung a rock at the shadowy being. The creature just laughed, and plunged his hands into Jacob. Several hours later, his and his friends' parents entered the cave and found Jacob laying on the floor, unconscious.
Taking him back to the village, Jacob was pale and weak. No longer the healthy young halfling, he became more and more frail. He also started hearing voices, trying to convince him to do things. A few years later, one of his friends was making fun of him. In a fit of rage, Jacob reached into himself and a handful of acid appeared in his hand, which he threw at his friend, injuring him badly.
Jacob was horrified by what he had done, but at he same time, there was a part of him that enjoyed watching his (now former) friend writhe on the ground in pain. He immediately fled the village, never to return. He has since discovered the source of power in him, which he can call on to hurt others. He has become an adventurer like he always wanted to be as a child, but with a dark twist. He tries to use his powers for good, but it is so hard, and he so likes to hurt people...
How can you even fathom playing anything but a weapon finesse based gnome barbarian with those stats?
How can you even fathom playing anything but a weapon finesse based gnome barbarian with those stats?
lol, actually... a dervish dancing urban barbarian gnome would definitely need to worry about survivability, but would do alright in combat: he should have a raging Dex of 18 @1st level, which should translates to a decent AC and attack bonus with your rapier (since you should have weapon finesse for your feat), and at 3rd you'd deal some damage with your scimitar (thanks to dervish dance)... you will be missing toughness though. you could dip 2 levels of fighter @2&3rd to get DD online earlier and allow toughness sooner.
even with that build though, i still think a sylvan sorcerer or lunar oracle would be a more optimal choice (though, obviously, that's not the only concern).
IIRC, you're (OP) kind of set on a bard...
- if you want to be able to melee consider a Dawnflower Dervish, with a couple of urban barbarian levels mixed in. i'd think about a human with the +2 to dex and toughness for the racial bonus feat (with all your bard FCB going to hp).
- if you're down with ranged combat dipping 1-2 levels of mysterious stranger gunslinger will go a long way towards making you a viable force in combat.
- if you want to focus on magic, there are a few options that expand your spell selection but the biggest thing will just be picking up skill focus UMD and keeping stocked up on scrolls/wands. gnome would be a great option for this approach.
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How can you even fathom playing anything but a weapon finesse based gnome barbarian with those stats?lol, actually... a dervish dancing urban barbarian gnome would definitely need to worry about survivability, but would do alright in combat: he should have a raging Dex of 18 @1st level, which should translates to a decent AC and attack bonus with your rapier (since you should have weapon finesse for your feat), and at 3rd you'd deal some damage with your scimitar (thanks to dervish dance)... you will be missing toughness though. you could dip 2 levels of fighter @2&3rd to get DD online earlier and allow toughness sooner.
It was honestly only a minor joke. I love diminutive barbarians, it's impossible to NOT have fun playing them. Especially with that 19 CHA it would have. A gnome running around the battlefield at full 30 ft movement while demoralizing opponents is just comedy. Of course, it's even more hilarious if you transition to fighter immediately after, and take Dazzling Display, and start every combat with an epic performance of gnomish martial prowess (waving a sling around), and the enemies all start off shaken.. :-)
Ultimately, I don't see this staying barbarian very long before transitioning to something else, but you can consider that maxed d12 HP at level 1 + the 10 ft movement is worth quite a few feats, even if he never even rages.
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Chris: Thank you.
Diminutive Titan: If you're still watching this thread, I'd love to hear how your character turns out!
Thank you all so much for your many recommendations (so much more than I expected) and all the advice.
Thank you Chris, for cleaning up the thread.
For those still interested:
Right now I have the following build;
Gnome Bard
Small humanoid
favored class bonus: Bard +1hp
HP: d8 +1 = 9
Starting wealth: 11 × 10 = 110gp
Str 10 +0
Dex 14 +2
Con 10 +0
Wis 9 -1
Int 14 +2
Cha 19 +4
AC = 19 (10 + 1 size + 3 armor + 2 dex + 3 shield)
Saves:
Fort 0 +0 = +0
Reflex 2 +2 = +4
Will 2 -1 = +1
Attacks:
Shortbow +3 to hit 1d4+0 ×3 Piercing 80ft. range (20 arrows)
Whip (disarm, trip, reach 15ft.)
Skills:
6 + int = 8
Perform (not sure which performance style)+8
Diplomacy +9
Bluff +9
Spellcraft +6
Use M. Device +8
Perception +5
Acrobatics +6
Stealth +10
Feats:
Shield Focus (+1 shield AC)
Class abilities:
Cantrips
Bardic Knowledge
Bardic Performance (Inspire Courage +1, distraction, fascinate, countersong) 8 rounds/day
Racial abilities:
Languages: Common, Sylvan, Gnome, Goblin, Draconic
Spell like abilities 1/day:
speak with animals, prestidigitation, dancing lights, ghost sound (DC 15)
Small size = +1 AC, +1 attack rolls, +4 Stealth, -1 CMB/CMD
+1 Illusion spells DCs
Gift of Tongues: +1 bonus on Bluff and Diplomacy checks, and learn one additional language per rank in the Linguistics skill. Replaces defensive training and hatred.
+2 Perception
+2 Craft (not sure which craft skill?)
spells
0: (4 known)
lullaby
detect magic
open/close
read magic
1: (2 known 2/day)
sleep (DC 15)
silent image (DC 16)
Gear:
backpack
bedroll
waterskin
trail rations
clothing
sunrod
caltrops
rope
spell component pouch(?)
Note: I may consider playing a halfling, since it gives me a bunch of bonuses to saves, AC, and ranged attack rolls, increased speed and doesn't take away too much skill bonuses and extra's such as SLA's... but I'm not sure yet.
At this point I'd ask: which are you more interested in roleplaying? Looks like the mechanics of either choice are sound and fun, but if you have any preference toward halfling or toward gnome, go with that.
honestly, it sounds unconventional, but I think I'd play an arcane trickster with this using sorcerer as the base spellcaster and ninja for the sneak attack. Use an aasimar or tiefling as your race so you can use early entry tricks to get into the PrC at level 5. Because of your low con, you're not going to want to get hit, but that's okay; as a ninja, you'll have vanishing trick at level 2 to make sure you're invisible most of the time, and from there, you spend most of your time in combat sniping people. You've got decent stats for being tricky, just play to your strengths and don't let that weakness stop you from being awesome!
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Did I wake up into an alternate dimension of "off-topic bashing" this morning? This has gotta be the third thread I've stumbled across that had a guy asking a question and people dropping by to gripe about the question's indications.
yea, dont take shield focus.
Bards get whip proficiency.
I would consider Dodge instead of Shield Focus. It helps your touch AC, and works if unequiped. Granted, it doesn't work when flat-footed, but your initiative is pretty good, and would be even better with the Reactionary trait (+2 to initiative) and/or Imp Init.
Your stats seem really good for an archery based bard. Good Dex, Good Int, excellent Cha, and the low Wisdom leads to fun RP, but good Will Saves means you won't be a mental pushover. :-)
Another alternative to shield focus is Arcane Strike. It's a +1 bonus that will bypass DR/magic+1 and a little bit of extra damage is always nice (using a swift action that's often available). It will work for both bows and melee. Plus, it's infinite use, so when you want to preserve spells and/or performance rounds for later (or you run out), you still have something that lasts as long as you have arrows to fire.
I think I'm going to stick with Gnome. Halfling would be a safer choice mechanically but I like the flavour of the Gnome, his SLA's and his increased DC's to illusion. Low-Light Vision also feels better than normal vision.
I actually thought it was pretty cool to have a Gnome Bard with a big shield. I wanted to take Missile Shield and Saving Shield feats in the future as well.
Most of my doubts revolve around feat choices at this moment. My interest in the shield feats is mostly based on flavour. (I kind of see a Zelda: Ocarina of Time young Link with a big Hylian shield on his back)
I also have interest in taking a useful Craft skill but I'm not sure what to pick. Craft (alchemy) seems interesting for making tanglefoot bags and such items.
Next level I will probably invest a rank in at least Linguistics and Craft, and another Performance style. What are your recommendations for versatile performance? My Bluff and Diplomacy are already quite good so I don't think I need those so much. I was thinking about taking Percussion first since it replaces Intimidate and Handle Animal (in which I'm not trained and I would normally get a penalty to Intimidate due to being Small), and it would be fun to use my shield as a percussive instrument of some sort...
For crafting, the ability to make your own shields might be good (so you can make a new shield if yours is lost, damaged with rend, confiscated when you end up in jail, etc).
But craft alchemy has a lot of potential. Gnomes love tinkering with alchemy and/or traps and other devices, and an archer bard could have a lot of fun with that.
Ask your GM if you could do some fun things with Raining Arrows like firing tanglefoots and alchemical fire vials attached to the tips of arrows (just a different substance in the raining arrow, instead of holy water). The vial shatters on impact and releases the substance as though it were thrown, adding a lot of potential versatility to your arsenal (though you do have to craft or buy each one). That sort of clever tinkering is a fun implementation of the gnome ethos, IMO.
Craft (Alchemy) is generally the most useful Craft skill. You might want a spiked gauntlet on your whip hand so you can threaten adjacent squares and help flank. Since you have a 10 strength and no archery feats, I would probably lose the bow for a sling and javelins. That way you can keep using a heavy shield when they are in javelin range and use the sling for emergencies and hunting. For the skills I would swap Diplomacy for Perform (Oratory) and take my other perform as Perform (Percussion) to best make use of versatile performance.
I'm a big fan of javelins and shields.
You're smart enough you can dabble in various Craft skills. 1 rank = +6, and the DCs are generally pretty low. You can Take 10 and get a 16, which is good enough for government work.
The Shield feats sound like a lot of fun, too.
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Alright, I'm going for javelins and the shield. The shield feats are probably quite useful, and will encourage my allies to fight next to me in battle or their animal companions (since we have 2 rangers and a druid in the party).
I feel I could endlessly iterate on tactics and which combat method to pursue.
I will mostly be doing bardic performance and Feinting my enemies probably, since I'm good at Bluff and I don't necessarily need Improved Feint since I won't be short on actions. If I can use my versatile performance at lvl2 to intimidate the enemy, that'd be great as well.
Other useful actions around low level is throwing self-made alchemists' fire and tanglefoot bags around the field, in addition to things like caltrops. At higher levels I will be able to rely more on spells since I'll know more and have more daily spells to cast.
I may need to find a way to get special material javelins or to enchant them in a cheap way.
As for versatile performance, I can see how Sense Motive would be a very useful skill, so I'm taking Perform (Sing), or maybe (Oratory), it doesn't matter much really...
Any of you guys have experience roleplaying the Perform (sing) or (oratory) skills? :P I think I could use some advice for when the other players in my group go: "Go on then! SING IT!" XD
We will be playing either through Roll20 or tabletop so I might need some way to play it convincingly.
If you don't want to sing I recommend against taking perform (sing) for your character. In my experience the other players will want you to roleplay out singing, mostly because karaoke is fun for the people listening. It is much easier to roleplay out telling a story than singing a song. You can even start stories and then refuse to tell the rest until they win the battle.
Alright, I'm going for javelins and the shield. The shield feats are probably quite useful, and will encourage my allies to fight next to me in battle or their animal companions (since we have 2 rangers and a druid in the party).
I feel I could endlessly iterate on tactics and which combat method to pursue.
I will mostly be doing bardic performance and Feinting my enemies probably, since I'm good at Bluff and I don't necessarily need Improved Feint since I won't be short on actions. If I can use my versatile performance at lvl2 to intimidate the enemy, that'd be great as well.
Other useful actions around low level is throwing self-made alchemists' fire and tanglefoot bags around the field, in addition to things like caltrops. At higher levels I will be able to rely more on spells since I'll know more and have more daily spells to cast.I may need to find a way to get special material javelins or to enchant them in a cheap way.
As for versatile performance, I can see how Sense Motive would be a very useful skill, so I'm taking Perform (Sing), or maybe (Oratory), it doesn't matter much really...
Any of you guys have experience roleplaying the Perform (sing) or (oratory) skills? :P I think I could use some advice for when the other players in my group go: "Go on then! SING IT!" XD
We will be playing either through Roll20 or tabletop so I might need some way to play it convincingly.
Remember the narrator from the movie 300? The spartan who lost an eye was retelling the story right before the battle with the Persians. You could use something like that for your inspiration.
I once re-wrote the "Ballad of Jayne Cobb" for the backstory of one of the PCs I was DMing for. Maybe just come up with a couple covers for the PCs in your party?
Or maybe the occasional "Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down..."
"Ranger are you okay? Are you okay? Are you okay, ranger..."
or...
"Baby it don't matter if you're green or white"
"Well this looks like a job for me so everybody, just follow me 'cuz we need a little, controversy 'cuz it feels so empty without me!"
Okay never mind I got this.