Wrath of the Righteous - A Failed AP


Wrath of the Righteous

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Hmm. That's something to consider for the revised Mythic Feats I've been creating. Some defensive abilities.

Precognitive Defense (Tier 6) - The Mythic character averts all damage taken in a round after it's rolled but in doing so he sacrifices all of his/her next action (including swift, immediate, standard, and move actions) and cannot be affected by the Marshal Advance or Decisive Strike abilities for two rounds.


Tangent101 wrote:

You are not understanding what I'm saying.

There are four Mythic "core path abilities" available for Hierophant and Archmage that involve casting spells. Two of them are "recast any spell you have memorized or have available because of your class" while the other two are "cast any spell at all that your class could cast."

Your "fix" destroys the "recast any spell" ability for the Oracle and Sorcerer. And for that matter means any Wizard or Cleric who needs to recast a spell has to sacrifice another spell to do so. In short, you destroyed Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing. And once the players reach 3rd Tier they can rest for one hour and one Mythic, regain their spells, and continue on their merry way.

It won't work.

Your "fix" also doesn't stop players at the 3rd Tier from resting for an hour, spending one Mythic, and regaining all their spells. All you do is provide an inconvenience that prevents certain....

I've said two times already that I'm banning the 3rd Tier rest ability in my games, and I just said in my last post that I'm fine with Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing becoming less useful. Infact, that is the entire point of the change.

The abilities would still work pefectly well as utility powers. You'd either pick the ability to make non mythics save twice, or cast any spell from the rulebooks. Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing would still allow you to cast any spell that you had prepared that day (or is on your spells known list) at the cost of any slot of the right level. They just wouldn't give you an additional +20 spells per day.

If there is some technicality in how these work that would prevent it from working the way I want, then I will just edit them more.

I think it is obvious that we are just speaking past eachother, so we should just agree to disagree.


Matrix Dragon wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:

You are not understanding what I'm saying.

There are four Mythic "core path abilities" available for Hierophant and Archmage that involve casting spells. Two of them are "recast any spell you have memorized or have available because of your class" while the other two are "cast any spell at all that your class could cast."

Your "fix" destroys the "recast any spell" ability for the Oracle and Sorcerer. And for that matter means any Wizard or Cleric who needs to recast a spell has to sacrifice another spell to do so. In short, you destroyed Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing. And once the players reach 3rd Tier they can rest for one hour and one Mythic, regain their spells, and continue on their merry way.

It won't work.

Your "fix" also doesn't stop players at the 3rd Tier from resting for an hour, spending one Mythic, and regaining all their spells. All you do is provide an inconvenience that prevents certain....

I've said two times already that I'm banning the 3rd Tier rest ability in my games, and I just said in my last post that I'm fine with Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing becoming less useful. Infact, that is the entire point of the change.

The abilities would still work pefectly well as utility powers. You'd either pick the ability to make non mythics save twice, or cast any spell from the rulebooks. Arcane Surge and Recalled Blessing would still allow you to cast any spell that you had prepared that day (or is on your spells known list) at the cost of any slot of the right level. They just wouldn't give you an additional +20 spells per day.

If there is some technicality in how these work that would prevent it from working the way I want, then I will just edit them more.

I think it is obvious that we are just speaking past eachother, so we should just agree to disagree.

So you're just going to eliminate two of the Mythic abilities for spellcasters. Because seriously, there is ZERO reason for someone to take those other abilities. In short you are setting yourself up for more abusive use of Mythic. You also are penalizing low-level spellcasters because you don't want a level 6 Wizard to have a potential five extra spells at 1st Tier.

Can I ask a question: Why are you even using Mythic? I mean, you might as well not use Mythic at all. It's not like you can't use WotR with standard characters. If you never use any of the Mythic abilities of the enemies (leaving hit points and damage output as-is) then the extra magic items in the module help compensate for the increased difficulty.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In Nobody's spirit here is what I tried, although I only made it through book 4.

1) start with enemy casters pre-buffed. If combats only last 2-3 rounds you can't spend 4 rounds buffing.

2) liberal use of templates. For my group the mythic templates, advanced and/or extra HD was enough to keep them challenged.

3) Modify the enemies feats to oppose your group. There are many poorly designed NPCs in this path. ie: cheat or assume NPCs know your PCs tactics.

4) And, of course, add a lot more HPs

Extra problems that I noticed was that spells with saves were worthless in both directions, far too many saves were being made on 4's.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, my fixes so far:

1.) Using Scorpions statblocks. Then buffing the hell out of them.
2.) Simple advanced and/or fiendish templates on the monsters, putting effective spells/feats on NPC's.
3.) Upping HP considerably.
4.) Pre-buffing them... my group also does it when they can.

And there are the nerfs I already did to mythic and normal gameplay at the start of the campaign, cutting mythic power per day in half, restricting daily regeneration to 1d4, restricting party-wide buffs to three and so on.

The party is still wrecking everything, even encounters which I had judged to be challenging for them.


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Tangent101 wrote:
Can I ask a question: Why are you even using Mythic? I mean, you might as well not use Mythic at all. It's not like you can't use WotR with standard characters. If you never use any of the Mythic abilities of the enemies (leaving hit points and damage output as-is) then the extra magic items in the module help compensate for the increased difficulty.

Good question. Well, personally I like the mythic abilities that give fancy powers, but I hate the ones that simply increase the numbers (including damage, ability scores, spells per day and such). Basically, I think the numbers in pathfinder are high enough already, and that mythic needs to be more about awesome powers. So, if I run a mythic game I will probably edit the rules to reflect that.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh yea... I also said no to legendary items, mythic vital strike and the crit boost to mythic power attack. I also nerfed fleet charge so it had to follow charge movement restrictions.

I would also consider eldritch breach and precision to be potentially too good.


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I think the silliest thing I've managed to stumble onto is Spellscar Oracle + the Hierophant ability that makes you immune to your domain/mystery spells. The Oracle in my Kingmaker game is pulling a Twice Betrayer of Shar without any fancy double-reading, bizarre multiclassing, or divine metamagic cheese. She can walk around in an antimagic field with everything still functional.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

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Removed some more back and forth posts. Guys, the personal jabs have really got to stop here. Let's dial back the grar and focus on the content of the thread.


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Well, I am of the bent that heroes should be heroes. Before you blast me, I would say that I knew (I thought) what I was getting into when I started WotR. I quickly learned that I did NOT know.

So I adjusted.

I am not changing the Mythic rules as written - too much work.
I am not nerfing or slowing character advancement - too much work.
I AM allowing my players too be mythic heroes, and they are crushing it - sometimes.

What I am doing is adjusting the encounter to add to the Mythic narrative - less crunch and more fun. What does that mean? Sometimes more hp, sometimes higher DCs for the group, sometimes better saves for the bad guys - all based on enhancing the story at a given moment.

What I found was was that I wasn't ready for the changes to encounter levels that the Mythic rules brought. I am still learning, and my group is having fun with it. Here is the most commonly heard comment when a creature does something that the PCs suspect it shouldn't:

"Must be Mythic". And they soldier on. I've had one-shots on them, but in 4 books, it's happened twice, and that on fantastic dice. Here's the key: the PCs are involved in an epic struggle. And death is very real possibility. We have a saying at our table: "If we (the PCs) can do it to them, they can do it to us." It works for us.

Here is a good example: The battle with the shadow demon Eustoyriax. I made damn sure the barbarian failed his Will save. He went about, using all of his Champion abilities against the party, while they were fighting the SD and 4 of his SD minions. That is still their favorite encounter, even when they suspected I might have 'fudged'.

End result: We had a great time as a group. And that is the goal.

The best advice I can give applies to anyone playing an AP, not just WotR. Play to the story, and make the rules work for you.


Old Guy GM wrote:

Well, I am of the bent that heroes should be heroes. Before you blast me, I would say that I knew (I thought) what I was getting into when I started WotR. I quickly learned that I did NOT know.

So I adjusted.

I am not changing the Mythic rules as written - too much work.
I am not nerfing or slowing character advancement - too much work.
I AM allowing my players too be mythic heroes, and they are crushing it - sometimes.

What I am doing is adjusting the encounter to add to the Mythic narrative - less crunch and more fun. What does that mean? Sometimes more hp, sometimes higher DCs for the group, sometimes better saves for the bad guys - all based on enhancing the story at a given moment.

What I found was was that I wasn't ready for the changes to encounter levels that the Mythic rules brought. I am still learning, and my group is having fun with it. Here is the most commonly heard comment when a creature does something that the PCs suspect it shouldn't:

"Must be Mythic". And they soldier on. I've had one-shots on them, but in 4 books, it's happened twice, and that on fantastic dice. Here's the key: the PCs are involved in an epic struggle. And death is very real possibility. We have a saying at our table: "If we (the PCs) can do it to them, they can do it to us." It works for us.

Here is a good example: The battle with the shadow demon Eustoyriax. I made damn sure the barbarian failed his Will save. He went about, using all of his Champion abilities against the party, while they were fighting the SD and 4 of his SD minions. That is still their favorite encounter, even when they suspected I might have 'fudged'.

End result: We had a great time as a group. And that is the goal.

The best advice I can give applies to anyone playing an AP, not just WotR. Play to the story, and make the rules work for you.

.

+1


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I agree with the Old Guy in that as a DM you need to make the rules work for you and your group.

It would still be nice to figure out if a framework can be created that would allow mythic to be mythic without it being rocket tag. It is my firm belief that mythic needs an entirely new structure to pull this off.

Numbers will be, and need to be, off the chart. 1000s of hit points. Save DCs in the 100s. Etc. Free use of mythic points. When gods rumble, the devastation is incredible. If you've seen Man of Steel, just remember what Metropolis looked like at the end of the movie. That is the result of a mythic fight.


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If you are constantly fudging the rules so to create an "epic" feel for the storyline, you are no longer using the rules. You're doing an ad-lib game that marginally is related to Mythic and to Pathfinder.

I would much rather modify Mythic so that it is not overpowered but is definitely over-the-top (like firing one arrow into the air and having a dozen or more arrows strike the ground in a ten-foot radius). You can give the game a Mythic Feel without having four Superman characters on the field.

Then again, that IS what I'm doing now, isn't it. ;) (ie, the link above to the other thread)

Grand Lodge

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Mogloth wrote:
I agree with the Old Guy in that as a DM you need to make the rules work for you and your group.

I agree as well. Additionally, I'd say that the more dependent you are on the rules, the more trouble you're likely to have in situations where the rules are part of the problem (adn the more problematic the rules are, the more stressful it's going to be for the GM).

-Skeld


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Tangent101 wrote:

If you are constantly fudging the rules so to create an "epic" feel for the storyline, you are no longer using the rules. You're doing an ad-lib game that marginally is related to Mythic and to Pathfinder.

I would much rather modify Mythic so that it is not overpowered but is definitely over-the-top (like firing one arrow into the air and having a dozen or more arrows strike the ground in a ten-foot radius). You can give the game a Mythic Feel without having four Superman characters on the field.

Then again, that IS what I'm doing now, isn't it. ;) (ie, the link above to the other thread)

Fair enough. Although you may be overstating how much I fudge the rules. Of course, you have no way of knowing that based on one post from me, so all good.

To be honest I don't see the difference in our methods. Two means to an end, the goal being fun for everyone at the table.

I use the encounter level philosophy to its extent, as suggested in the Mythic book. The PCs mow down the mooks like they should. After all, they have been chosen by Fate to take it to the demons or die trying, right? We use the pictures in the book extensively. They know if it has a picture (and gods forbid, a name!), then they are in for a ride. We have another saying, usually after someone goes, "Well that fight was a b+!+~!" Someone else usually replies, "Hellooo she was on the cover!" My point? Glad you asked. Mooks don't get 'rule fudging'. Lieutenants usually don't get much either, maybe some more minions to make itinteresting, but that's it. If you are on the cover though...well...Paizo didn't pay Wayne Reynolds all that money and put you there to die in one round, know what I mean?

As far as giving it a Mythic Feel, I have visuals, sound effects, I even play the sound part of videos (I used Theodens speech on the Fields of the Pellenor as a soundtrack the first time their paladin army charged in Book 2, feel free to steal.) So there's more than just the adjustments.

I certainly hope no one misconstrues my posts here as 'my way or the highway' or braggadocio. I've been taught by some really good GMs in the past and I've done this a long time. I try to share what I've done in the hope of passing it on.


Well i thought it was well said Old Guy Gm, i especially like that i'm not the only one noticing the WorldWound-LotR parallels:)

Edit: and no i didnt think you sounded like a braggadocio (thats a fun word!)


captain yesterday wrote:
Edit: and no i didnt think you sounded like a braggadocio (thats a fun word!)

Almost as fun as rutabaga! 8P

Silver Crusade

Matrix Dragon wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
Can I ask a question: Why are you even using Mythic? I mean, you might as well not use Mythic at all. It's not like you can't use WotR with standard characters. If you never use any of the Mythic abilities of the enemies (leaving hit points and damage output as-is) then the extra magic items in the module help compensate for the increased difficulty.
Good question. Well, personally I like the mythic abilities that give fancy powers, but I hate the ones that simply increase the numbers (including damage, ability scores, spells per day and such). Basically, I think the numbers in pathfinder are high enough already, and that mythic needs to be more about awesome powers. So, if I run a mythic game I will probably edit the rules to reflect that.

I think the straight upgrades (more AC, more power attack damage...) are too good, so players never really get a choice to try the cool stuff.

Silver Crusade

Old Guy GM wrote:


Here is a good example: The battle with the shadow demon Eustoyriax. I made damn sure the barbarian failed his Will save. He went about, using all of his Champion abilities against the party, while they were fighting the SD and 4 of his SD minions. That is still their favorite encounter, even when they suspected I might have 'fudged'.

My group has a barbarian, and with the encounter comming up, this could very well happen to my group. Of course a mythic barbarian can kill one or two player characters.

Question to everybody, have you considered lowering the monetary rewards of the AP? I plan to give out a couple of mythic items, but I think it would be wise to reduce/limit magic items a bit.


I always consider cutting the treasure.

My players don't appreciate that.


my players never know, i never tell them when i do it:)


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, my guys know how much this AP is taxing me, I'm a sharing person. :p

Grand Lodge

Does anyone find certain types of characters falling behind in WBL? My paladin 7/2 is over his WBL by about 3k but our Ranger(bow)/Sorc is under by about 6k. The game does seem to cater to melee characters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I gather that you are still very early in the AP. Modules two, three and four give out loot like crazy, module five curiously is under WBL and module six again throws out loot like there is no tomorrow. Your players will all be way over WBL as soon as they finish module three.

Loot breakdowns for each module:

Spoiler:
    The Wardstone Legacy
    Total Treasure: 73.945 GP (79.945 if Horgus friendly)
    -> 71,945 normal, i.e. 18.000 GP/Character -> 2.000-3.000 over WBL per Character

    Sword of Valor
    Total Treasure: 241.199 GP
    -> i.e 60.300 GP/Character -> 30.300 GP over WBL per Character

    Demon’s Heresy
    Total Treasure: 810.520 GP
    -> i.e 202.630 GP/Character -> 140.000 GP over WBL per Character

    The Midnight Isles
    Total Treasure: 910.262 GP
    -> i.e 227.565 GP/Character -> 105.565 GP over WBL per Character

    Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth
    Total Treasure: 870.202 GP
    -> i.e 217.550 GP/Character -> 72.449 GP under WBL per Character

    City of Locusts
    Total Treasure: 3.675.002 GP
    -> i.e 918.750 GP/Character -> 568.750 GP over WBL per Character


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all this talk of WBL has got me thinking, has anyone thought of banning stat boosting magic items, in addition to a limit on how many buff spells you can pile on someone

its too late for Magnuskn obviously but it might help others:) just an idea

Grand Lodge

We are just getting to Dreznan, just killed the Vescavor queen and banished the Vrock. I am going to do a lot of RP before they enter Dreznan.


Captain Beaky and his band wrote:

Mag (and others), if you did nothing other than give the mythic dudes x 5 hit points, what would that do, in your opinion, to the book as written?

I'm trying to gauge what effect that single change would make and how much more would need to work on.

NobodysHome covered this earlier in the thread already:

NobodysHome wrote:

Just upping hit points isn't a reasonable solution because it eliminates the effectiveness of the other party members (blaster caster, fighting/buffing cleric). Do I just tell them, "Sorry, but the fighter does so much damage I'm afraid I have to make you even more ineffective than you already feel."

It's far more complex than just hit points. I liked Eusteryiax because his incorporeality reduced the fighter's damage by half, but didn't affect the blaster's mythic magic missiles. It ended up being a balanced fight where party members did roughly equivalent damage.

That's the kind of solution I'm looking into; more of a, "How do I make sure everyone can contribute?", rather than, "How do I make monsters so tough the fighter can't one-shot 'em, and everyone else should be focusing on battlefield control 'cause they're not going to get in enough damage anyway..."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'd say that fudging of the rules happens all the time while GMing, it comes with the territory and isn't tied to mythic.

As stated WBL for this AP felt about right, although I allowed crafting which won't happen again. Or not without some house rules. But I wouldn't limit stat items.

I am thinking about having a buff limit in all games, like one buff + one per 5 levels.

Also, just raising HPs doesn't work. Most of the enemies wouldn't have been able to hit my PCs either without alterations.


why wouldnt you limit stat booster items?


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Here's a solution: Stat increases through Mythic do not stack with magic item buffs. Thus if a stat is increased by +6 through Mythic, that stat will never be boosted further by magic items or spells.

Buff items can still affect other stats, mind you. There's a total of +10 to stats from Mythic (unless you nerf it to +1 per two tiers like I did). The right Belt and Headband could increase all stats by +6 ;)


And i'm just honestly curious why? i have no other motive other then contributing more then just jokes:)


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Seannoss wrote:

I'd say that fudging of the rules happens all the time while GMing, it comes with the territory and isn't tied to mythic.

As stated WBL for this AP felt about right, although I allowed crafting which won't happen again. Or not without some house rules. But I wouldn't limit stat items.

I am thinking about having a buff limit in all games, like one buff + one per 5 levels.

Also, just raising HPs doesn't work. Most of the enemies wouldn't have been able to hit my PCs either without alterations.

Well, if the spellcasters work at it, they too can do ridiculous amounts of HP damage. At 15th level, you can conceivably have an arcane blaster do 225 HP of damage with a single maximised mythic fireball + channel power, then do it again in the same round, as long as he took the right path abilities. Saves are of course a bit of problem, but I already heard some ridiculous save numbers from one of my two more power-gamey group members.

One guy is going to maximise his AC and the paladin always will be hard to hit, but the rest should stay within doable ranges.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hmmm, I never thought about limiting stat boosters. The PCs routinely fight vs opponents that have stats in the 20s to 40s. All the buffing spells could be made nearly permanent by the cleric. And I did slightly nerf mythic stats. Also, my PCs were 'nice'. They had no starting stat above 18 and no dump stats.

I had that one guy who did maximize his AC and a paladin, both of them also did the most damage. Both of which had ACs in the mid 30s-40 at 12th level. So unfortunately I had to shape encounters around the pair of them. Mostly I was only answering the question of 'if I raise HP and do nothing else, what would happen?'


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You are aware that stat buffs from stuff like Bull Strength don't stack with magic items, right? They're the same buff type; the spells needed to create the magic items are the same spells used for buffs.

Fortunately I use Hero Labs which cued me in on this. ^^;;


stat boosters have always been a big part of Pathfinder i don't think anyone has thought of it:)
they are quite helpful if you use regular pathfinder (especially if you use point buy system) but they become unnecessary and unbalancing in Mythic i've noticed.

its a simple fix, however it could be hard to implement as old habits die hard, by that i mean players have gotten so used to having them, it might be like taking the Cell Phone away from the guy that always Twiddles on his phone all day at work.

Silver Crusade

captain yesterday wrote:

all this talk of WBL has got me thinking, has anyone thought of banning stat boosting magic items, in addition to a limit on how many buff spells you can pile on someone

its too late for Magnuskn obviously but it might help others:) just an idea

Banning them is certainly an option, but characters will compensate by buying other items, which isn't always bad. I think they reduce the magic item versatility quite a bit. You could always just double their price.

Seannoss wrote:

I'd say that fudging of the rules happens all the time while GMing, it comes with the territory and isn't tied to mythic.

Also, just raising HPs doesn't work. Most of the enemies wouldn't have been able to hit my PCs either without alterations.

I agree, and suspect, that the makers of the mythic rules set assumed that players would need to use their mythic points to improve their saving throws..... yeah like that currently happens. Most players usually use their swift/immediate actions for offensive abilities.

Tangent101 wrote:

Here's a solution: Stat increases through Mythic do not stack with magic item buffs. Thus if a stat is increased by +6 through Mythic, that stat will never be boosted further by magic items or spells.

Buff items can still affect other stats, mind you. There's a total of +10 to stats from Mythic (unless you nerf it to +1 per two tiers like I did). The right Belt and Headband could increase all stats by +6 ;)

I would prefer to spread the bonus around a little bit more, increasing your main damage stat is very effective, but CON and WIL deserve some love too. I would be very open to an option (considering how many options we already have for the racial benefits of humans and other races) to instead get a +1 or +2 bonus to a saving throw.

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
Seannoss wrote:

I'd say that fudging of the rules happens all the time while GMing, it comes with the territory and isn't tied to mythic.

As stated WBL for this AP felt about right, although I allowed crafting which won't happen again. Or not without some house rules. But I wouldn't limit stat items.

I am thinking about having a buff limit in all games, like one buff + one per 5 levels.

Also, just raising HPs doesn't work. Most of the enemies wouldn't have been able to hit my PCs either without alterations.

Well, if the spellcasters work at it, they too can do ridiculous amounts of HP damage. At 15th level, you can conceivably have an arcane blaster do 225 HP of damage with a single maximised mythic fireball + channel power, then do it again in the same round, as long as he took the right path abilities. Saves are of course a bit of problem, but I already heard some ridiculous save numbers from one of my two more power-gamey group members.

One guy is going to maximise his AC and the paladin always will be hard to hit, but the rest should stay within doable ranges.

I have a holy shield paladin / guardian in my group, thanks to mythic combat expertise, and some other factors, I expect him to hit AC 50 at the end. However hit points don't scale nearly as much (though the campaign trait for guardians helps him).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
I agree, and suspect, that the makers of the mythic rules set assumed that players would need to use their mythic points to improve their saving throws..... yeah like that currently happens. Most players usually use their swift/immediate actions for offensive abilities.

Surge gets used an awful lot in my campaign, much more than I suspected it would.

Silver Crusade

magnuskn wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
I agree, and suspect, that the makers of the mythic rules set assumed that players would need to use their mythic points to improve their saving throws..... yeah like that currently happens. Most players usually use their swift/immediate actions for offensive abilities.
Surge gets used an awful lot in my campaign, much more than I suspected it would.

Yeah, but didn't you post in your thread, that your players use if for offensive means, like a successful dispel check? I think that players should have to consider, to save a couple uses of mythic power, for the time when the excrement hits the windmill.

Silver Crusade

captain yesterday wrote:

stat boosters have always been a big part of Pathfinder i don't think anyone has thought of it:)

they are quite helpful if you use regular pathfinder (especially if you use point buy system) but they become unnecessary and unbalancing in Mythic i've noticed.

its a simple fix, however it could be hard to implement as old habits die hard, by that i mean players have gotten so used to having them, it might be like taking the Cell Phone away from the guy that always Twiddles on his phone all day at work.

Actually I was hoping for a mythic power to give a permanent enhancement bonus to a number of stats, this would give the player more freedom when it comes to magic items.

Maybe something like this:

Tier 1 Universal
Natural Enhancement(Su): A character with this ability gains an enhancement bonus equal to his half his mythic tier (at least +1) to a maximum enhancement bonus of +2 to all his ability scores.

Tier 3 Universal:
Improved Natural Enhancement(Su): Your maximum bonus from Natural Enhancement increases to +4.

Tier 6 Universal:
Greater Natural Enhancement(Su): Your maximum bonus from Natural Enhancement increases to +6 (to account for the mythic feat Mythic Paragon) .

Tier 1 Universal:
Resistance(Su): You gain a resistance bonus on saving throws equal to half your tier. In addition whenever you use your surge to add to a saving throw, you can choose to reroll the original saving throw once the surge die is rolled.

Tier 1 Universal:
Deflection(Su): You gain a resistance bonus on saving throws equal to half your tier. As an immediate action, you can expend one use of mythic power to double this bonus until the end of your next turn.

Tier 1 Universal:
Natural Armor(Su): You gain an enhancement bonus to your natural armor equal to half your tier.
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to add your entire natural armor bonus to your touch AC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
eah, but didn't you post in your thread, that your players use if for offensive means, like a successful dispel check? I think that players should have to consider, to save a couple uses of mythic power, for the time when the excrement hits the windmill.

They also use it for stuff like dispel checks, but often enough too for important saves.


If I had to give a guess, surge in my game gets pulled out for, in order of common appearance:

1. "Can I nudge that attack roll/SR check just a little higher?"
2. "I miiiiiight be able to make this save if I surge."
3. "I absolutely, positively need to ace this skill check."
4. Anything else


You could either make the stat boosts enhancement bonuses so they don't stack with magic items,
Or
Have a hard limit of around 30 for any one stat. I mean +10 is plenty enough to curb some rocket tag martial damage and also limit sky high saving DC's.
Or
Make the free boosts work like the universal power of only one to each stat.

Limiting the number of buffs to half hit dice plus half mythic tier or something like that could also help.

Snacks for thought!


My character would suck if I couldn't do 2 swift actions a round (coupled arcana), in fact when I see the other 2 players without coupled arcana I often wonder how they cope at all!

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