The Flash TV Series


Television

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Sovereign Court

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Hama wrote:
Speed force protects
Unless you happen to be Felicity's blouse, apparently.

Well...some fanservice I guess.


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Hey, it destroyed one of Barry's jackets once too, so at least it wasn't from nowhere.

Scarab Sages

Nice episode.....

Spoiler:
I liked the dream machine sequence, but I was really hoping the confrontation between Cisco and Reverse Flash would have been real. Although, in hindsight, it's probably better if they save that for a future episode/season. No sense in giving everyone super powers in the first season.

I thought the flashbacks were a bit lame, even the one with Joe. And the whole sparking thing between Iris and Barry - LAME!

However, one thing of note in the Thawne flashback: With Barry lying there unconscious, and Eobard waxing eloquent about the irony of helping to create the hero he hates so much, it sounded like he said he still would never forgive Barry. I'll be interested to see what that's all about.

It was nice to see, however, that not only did Eobard outsmart all of them, but that he can finally stop pretending to be something he's not and just embrace his a&%*$+@-ness. Although, as much as I like Tom Cavanagh, I wish they'd go back to Thawne's original face.

I look forward to seeing how RF uses Eddie as his "insurance".

I'm really looking forward to next week's episode - GRODD!!!!!


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I felt like a dope when I remembered that we saw in episode one that Wells had a camera setup in Barry's lab and then completely forgot about it.


Kalshane wrote:
I felt like a dope when I remembered that we saw in episode one that Wells had a camera setup in Barry's lab and then completely forgot about it.

Join the club!

OK, some questions that occurred to me in the wake of last night's episode:

Did Gideon lie when it said:

Spoiler:
that it had to obey Barry because he created it? Does that explain the smirk, as it was about to tell Wells/Thawne the whole thing? Or, was it the truth, but Gideon is loyal to RF and knew he's see the whole thing via his hidden cameras? If it's loyal to Barry, why didn't it tell him about the cameras? Just because he didn't ask, perhaps?

The 'insurance' comment:

Spoiler:
Does that mean Wells/Thawne/RF plans to take Eddie's form/body in the same way he became Wells? He sill needs Eddie to reproduce for him to exist, so is Iris pregnant? That might be a way to introduce 'Malcolm Thawne/Cobalt Blue'.

Given my track record so far, though, the safest bet might be none of the ideas I've come up with. ;P


Time Travel. How I love thee, how thou vex me.

Okay, it's pretty obvious, but having your great grandpa or whatever he is to Thawne (is he from the 25th century like in the books, or has he been TV retconned to 21st?), as an opponent is pretty dicey.

What happens if Eddie is killed? What happens if Eddie says "First thing tomorrow I'm getting a... Vasectomy!"

Does Eobard fade away?

I doubt they get that much in depth with it, but it is still a non-trivial detail.


sunbeam wrote:

What happens if Eddie is killed? What happens if Eddie says "First thing tomorrow I'm getting a... Vasectomy!"

Does Eobard fade away?

That would be hysterical, actually.

I can see an episode that is a variant of the classic Flash vs. Reverse-Flash battle of Flash #324; they chase each other around the world then as Eobard tries to kill the doctor performing the operation, Barry is forced to break his neck.


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I was kind of put off by the suggestion that Barry will eventually become a genius AI inventor. That's not his skill set. Or Cisco's; he's more of a boy genius mechanical engineer.


Damon Griffin wrote:
I was kind of put off by the suggestion that Barry will eventually become a genius AI inventor. That's not his skill set. Or Cisco's; he's more of a boy genius mechanical engineer.

That's superspeed for you. Infinite time to become an expert on everything ever.


I thought of something else related to the Eddie/Eobard thing.

I'm pretty sure that Eobard is going to be stopped, whether he is killed or put away for a while.

But assuming Eddie lives (a safe assumption? talk about plot protection) and finds out that Eobard is his descendent...

Doesn't that seem a little problematic? I mean you know one of your grand or great-grandchildren is going to become a ruthless killer?

Maybe no one ever tells him, but wouldn't you also feel kind of weird to know a friend of yours is going to have the Reverse Flash as a descendent? And that descendent is going to kill your mother and put your father in jail?

Grodd isn't the problem with this show. I'm starting to think they pulled the time travel genie way too early though. Abra Kadabra would be one thing, but Eobard has too many links with the current set-up.

Scarab Sages

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GRODD!!!


I find it funny that Wells/Thawne is concerned about Eddie's safety but has a rather cavalier attitude about killing random other people. A friend of mine did the math and if Wells/Thawne is from the 25th Century, he has about 16,000 living ancestors existing during the "present day". I find it highly unlikely he's got the names and faces of all those people memorized.

Sovereign Court

Because comic book reality.

Dark Archive

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Love the little teases,

Spoiler:
like Gideon telling Barry that he was the Flash, 'a founding member of the...'

Given that the DC movie universe of Superman and Batman is not the same as the TV show universe of Flash and Arrow, we may get to see *two* different Justice Leagues. That could be cool.

Sovereign Court

That would be so awesome

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While it would annoy Jay Garrick fans almost as much as making Barry *the* Flash annoyed us Wally fans in the comics... it would be funny if the TV 'Leauge' called themselves a 'Society' instead.

Sovereign Court

Well he was the first flash. And I liked him better than WW

Scarab Sages

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Matthew Morris wrote:
While it would annoy Jay Garrick fans almost as much as making Barry *the* Flash annoyed us Wally fans in the comics... it would be funny if the TV 'Leauge' called themselves a 'Society' instead.

Yeah, I was never a fan of the way the unceremoniously jettisoned Wally. By that point, he had been the Flash for, what, a little over 20 years?

League or Society, though, I'd be cool with either one.

Scarab Sages

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GRODD!!!

Scarab Sages

WOOT!!!!

Spoiler:
Loved seeing Grodd in action! He's easily one of my favorite Flash villains. Although, from the looks of things, I think we can forget about Gorilla City. Looks like the show runners are going to make Grodd a one off. Although, I can see how they COULD bring Gorilla City into it, if they ever wanted to.

The fight between them was cool enough. A bit of the physical, and a bit of the psychic! Although I'm not overly fond of Iris, I did like the way they used Barry's love for her as the key to reinforcing his mind against Grodd's psychic attack.

Grodd! I shall hit you with a train!!!

I was even enjoying the scenes between Eddie and Eobard. I kind of like the way Eddie was standing up to RF (so to speak) and even getting under his skin a bit. I just hope they don't use this future knowledge of Barry and Iris getting married as a way to make Eddie a dick again. I really want him to be a good guy.

I hope to see more of Eiling as someone on the side of the super heroes. As I recall, that's how he started off. He only later became a severe dick.

Edit: Follow-up thought - if Eobard is starting up the Particle Accelerator again, in a effort to get back to his own time, I wonder if the original (pre-Eobard) Accelerator was somehow a key to his origins.


Aberzombie wrote:

WOOT!!!!

** spoiler omitted **

:
It seems likely that Grodd's coming back, given the end of the episode. Also, was I the only one who noticed math equations on the sewer walls? It seems Grodd is on the way to becoming his brilliant comics self.
Dark Archive

Spoiler:
Grodd looked pretty good, for CGI! Usually hairy people (like the werewolves in Underworld, or more recent stuff like Teen Wolf or Bitten) or hairy animals look pretty terrible in CGI. If only they can make CGI feathers that look better than the Smallville version of Hawkman (which really wasn't any better than the hawk-people from the hilariously bad Flash Gordon movie with the Queen soundtrack and BRIAN BLESSED), maybe we can finally see a decent Hawkgirl/woman on-screen!


I was kind of underwhelmed by Grodd's showing in this episode. After all that build-up I was expectig him to do something, I dunno, significant in any way?


Rynjin wrote:
I was kind of underwhelmed by Grodd's showing in this episode. After all that build-up I was expectig him to do something, I dunno, significant in any way?

Honestly, I wasn't.

Grodd always struck me as a one-trick pony who wore out his welcome years ago. I'm actually surprised he's as popular as he is...

I had already guessed there would be no gorilla city or race of super-gorillas... Breaking out of a lab pretty much told he was gonna be yet another monkey experiment gone awry...

The fact that they kept the mental powers and made him more then just a talking brute actually surprised me.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Last night, my wife speculated that now that Eddie knows he's destined to lose Iris, he'll heroically kill himself to keep Eobard from ever being born. That would be an... interesting way to beat him, for sure.


I can just see Wells/RF do some last minute 'surgery' with a knife to save himself.
No one said Eddie had to be alive to father kids.

Scarab Sages

Rynjin wrote:
I was kind of underwhelmed by Grodd's showing in this episode. After all that build-up I was expectig him to do something, I dunno, significant in any way?

But they did note that Grodd was getting smarter. Eventually, I can see him building some pretty whacked out tech, or pulling some genetic manipulation, that would make Cisco and Caitlin blush with envy.

He's been one of my favorites for a long time - I think it was because of that dichotomy of animalistic savagery combined with high intelligence, vast knowledge, and cunning. Plus, you know, giant gorilla with psychic powers.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
Last night, my wife speculated that now that Eddie knows he's destined to lose Iris, he'll heroically kill himself to keep Eobard from ever being born. That would be an... interesting way to beat him, for sure.

I've been thinking that for a while. But doesn't that totally mess up the timeline?

Comic book wise it would be a very interesting way to reboot a series (predestination appears to be a laughable thing in Flash TV time travel; I mean Eddie was always going to come to this point, tied up right?).

But I don't think the bulk the TV viewing audience would accept a Patrick in the shower scene, and redoing everything from scratch.


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Why kill himself? All he has to do is go to the doctor and say "I need a little snip-snip doc, my wife doesn't want kids".

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Rynjin wrote:
Why kill himself? All he has to do is go to the doctor and say "I need a little snip-snip doc, my wife doesn't want kids".

Vasectomies are reversible almost as easily as they're done. It also wouldn't stop RF from surgically getting what's needed (though I can't imagine the tone of the Flash would quite go down that route.)

Also, it would be a potentially cool scene to kill himself with RF there, see him start to fade out of existence, and quickly run into the past to salvage some hope of changing the future to restore his future lineage.

Dark Archive

I haven't seen the episode yet (dang basketball preempt) but I'm wondering. Does the RF refer to Eddie as his whatever times great grandfather or as just an ancestor? Is it possible there are other Thawnes (a brother or an uncle) that could be the progenitor of Eobard's?

Dark Archive

It would be a freaky option if they needed to recast the part of Wells/Eobard, for Eddie to die and some *other* Thawne become his ancestor, causing a change in features (as an in-story excuse for a new actor taking the role).


Marik Whiterose wrote:
I haven't seen the episode yet (dang basketball preempt) but I'm wondering. Does the RF refer to Eddie as his whatever times great grandfather or as just an ancestor? Is it possible there are other Thawnes (a brother or an uncle) that could be the progenitor of Eobard's?

He actually gloats about it.

Spoiler:
Lots of famous and influential Thawnes with Eddie being a unremarkable waste of space in the family tree, who never achieves anything of note for his entire career as a police officer.

with one last stab of "you don't even get the girl" as he shows him that Iris West-Allen news of the future headline.


I have this picture in my head of Eddie grabbing a gun and shooting himself in the head... only to have Wells/RF standing there and saying "Goodbye Great, great, great-uncle Eddie...."

being a Thawne doesn't mean that his death would affect Wells! Only the 'direct line' really matters.

Liberty's Edge

As for the vasectomy route, classically Eobard would solve that by having a future version of himself travel back in time and kill the urologist as a child.

Its sort of how he works.


Set wrote:

It would be a freaky option if they needed to recast the part of Wells/Eobard, for Eddie to die and some *other* Thawne become his ancestor, causing a change in features (as an in-story excuse for a new actor taking the role).

That wouldn't change the current actor; he used tech to assume Wells's appearance.


Krensky wrote:

As for the vasectomy route, classically Eobard would solve that by having a future version of himself travel back in time and kill the urologist as a child.

Its sort of how he works.

By that (for lack of a better word...) logic, if Eddie tried to shoot himself Eobard would go back in time and kill the guy who manufactured his gun.

Neither scenario makes a lick of sense.


I think he is resolving matters a little differently, by pushing Eddie into becoming the first Reverse Flash.


This seems more likely to me. Otherwise why taunt him with his lack of fame and loss of Iris?

Thawne/Wells has a lot of character defects, but petty spitefulness doesn't really seem to be among them.

Scarab Sages

Greylurker wrote:

I think he is resolving matters a little differently, by pushing Eddie into becoming the first Reverse Flash.

Hmmm....could be. We know from the end of this recent episode he's powering back up the particle accelerator. Maybe, by having Eddie down there in the basement of the thing, he hopes to kick start a Reverse Flash Dynasty. Could be his telling Eddie he was never remembered was part of the motivation to hate. Could also be that he meant what he said about Eddie being forgotten, but is now trying to change that. We already know that he's changed the date for the original particle accelerator.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:
Krensky wrote:

As for the vasectomy route, classically Eobard would solve that by having a future version of himself travel back in time and kill the urologist as a child.

Its sort of how he works.

By that (for lack of a better word...) logic, if Eddie tried to shoot himself Eobard would go back in time and kill the guy who manufactured his gun.

Neither scenario makes a lick of sense.

I see you're not familiar with Professor Zoom's origin.

That's exactly how he comes about. Someone gets in his way, future Eobard kills them or otherwise solves the issue.


GRODD...HATES...IRIS!

Seriously, that character is so annoying.

Also...

Spoiler:
Why hasn't the team attempted to use Gideon to help track down Wells? They have a futuristic AI that will follow Barry's every command. You'd think that it could be of some use to them. There's no way Cisco would let a piece of tech like that sit unexamined, and it might have helped them realize that Thawne/Wells was hiding under their noses the entire time.

Sovereign Court

Thawne must have taken Gideon with him.


Hama wrote:
Thawne must have taken Gideon with him.

You are correct, good sir. When asked, Gideon showed it's core inside the wall, and Cisco said something about not wanting to crawl in there. Then when they came back, Wells had removed it.

I... I don't really like Iris. She's just so self absorbed and whiny that I have a hard time viewing her as a love interest for anybody. I don't dislike her to the same level as I dislike Laurel in Arrow, but still... I just can't like her, even though it seems obvious that the writers favor the Barry-Iris pairing.


It occurs to me that of all the generic 'super-hero girlfriends' I never actually cared for Comic Iris either.

She was kind of bland and annoying for decades... then when she died they did the stupid time travel origin to make her edgy and relavent again... but it always seemed a colossal fail.

Clark and Lois, Hal and Carol, Ollie and Dinah... These are the kind of love interests that I can buy just based on tradition... but Barry and Iris? I really have no issue at all if she disappeared from the lore forever....

Frankly the only thing that made her interesting was introducing Wally into the lore and providing a connection to 'uncle Barry'... but I'm not a HUGE fan of him either...


Te'Shen wrote:
Hama wrote:
Thawne must have taken Gideon with him.
You are correct, good sir. When asked, Gideon showed it's core inside the wall, and Cisco said something about not wanting to crawl in there. Then when they came back, Wells had removed it.

How did I miss that? When did they go back and find anything missing?


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Te'Shen wrote:
I... I don't really like Iris. She's just so self absorbed and whiny that I have a hard time viewing her as a love interest for anybody. I don't dislike her to the same level as I dislike Laurel in Arrow, but still... I just can't like her, even though it seems obvious that the writers favor the Barry-Iris pairing.

I've liked her at times, but her reporter-ish tendencies seem to come across as awfully selfish:

---

The Flash: Please don't write a blog about me. That could put me - and you - in great danger.
Iris: People deserve to know the truth!

---

Fellow Reporter: Hey, weird stuff is going on at Star Labs. You have a bunch of friends there, right? You should totally abuse their trust by mining them for information.
Iris: Good idea! Hey, Caitlin - you consider us friends, right? Do you mind me digging into your supposedly dead ex-fiancee and other weird happenings with your boss and your coworkers?
Caitlin: I'd really appreciate it if you didn't.
Iris: People deserve to know the truth!

---

Iris: Barry, how dare you not tell me that you were the Flash! You don't have the right to keep that a secret, not from me! I don't care if you thought it was keeping me safe, I deserve to make my own decisions! I don't care that this is a deeply personal and traumatic secret element of your life - I have a right to know the truth!

---

Basically, I get that being a truth-seeker is one of her character traits. But it seems she doesn't even hesitate, even when she is digging into the secrets of friends and family.

And this last episode was really the worst. She acted so upset over not having been told, but Barry was not under *any* obligation to tell her. She goes on and on about deserving to make her own decisions - but completely ignores that this wasn't ever about her. This isn't something that happened to her, it is something that happened to Barry, and who he shares it with - and why - should be his decision to make.

I could accept her being disappointed that she wasn't told about it. But her righteous anger came off as a really unpleasant aspect of her character - especially in the middle of everything else the group was dealing with.


It's kind of a weird CW thing, actually (one of the many CW fails that I love harping about).

The CW (for whatever strange reason) seems to be really 'anti-secret'. Of all types. Regardless of the situation.

Have a look at various other CW shows... you'll see it. "Secrets are bad. Always."


Don't be so hard on Iris; she's probably just emulating her likely mentor, a hard-hitting award-winning journalist.

W T F, DC?!

TL,DR: Someone(s) at DC editorial/Warner management thinks journalists are overly-ambitious blinder-wearing morons.


Damon Griffin wrote:
How did I miss that? When did they go back and find anything missing?

After Joe shot Everyman and then Barry jetted back to Well's secret room. All the screens were up, windows into places the team had thought private and the area where the core had lain, now dark and empty.

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