The Flash TV Series


Television

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Sovereign Court

Bruce, Hal, Diana. I'm loving it.

Scarab Sages

I enjoyed this episode, but...

Spoiler:
One of my problems with it was how easily they got side-tracked from their stated goal of going over, getting Jessie, going home. They basically did everything Jay warned them not to do. The other (ongoing) problem is how they’re continuing with the same tired formula of Big Evil Speedster who’s so much faster and more powerful than Flash all season, right up until the finale. Other than that…

I liked Killer Frost and Deathstorm. Reverb was a nice surprise, and I thought the actor did a good job making the doppelganger sufficiently different, yet with similarities. And his expanded powers were a nice hint at things to come. The back and forth between the two of them was fun. And I loved the way Killer Frost and Deathstorm was scared of Reverb (though not as much as they were scared of Zoom).

Joe2 being a singer was a nice touch. If I recall correctly, Jesse L. Martin got his big break singing on Broadway, so it was cool to see the writer’s taking advantage of that. And the antagonistic relationship between him and Barry2 was a nice touch. Sucks that they killed him.

And, finally, we have the reason why Jay’s powers went away. I was wondering how they would handle the move towards the inevitable Velocity 9. Loved seeing him attack Geomancer with his hat.

The other little easter eggs (image of Supergirl, speed dial names on Barry’s phone) were nice touches.

I’m trying to figure out who the guy in the mask was at the end, when Barry was locked up in Zoom’s prison. I feel like I should know....

Scarab Sages

Damon Griffin wrote:

So, en route to Earth-2 we saw: a Flash, an Arrow, Supergirl, Grodd, and a Legion flight ring. Anything else?

Also, on speed dial on the phone at Barry & Iris's house: Eddie, Bruce, Hal and Diana.

I missed the Legion Flight Ring.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I love that the Flash we saw in the trip was the previous tv series. Hoping we get a crossover there.

Also sounds like people from other Earths is pretty common for Earth 2

Sovereign Court

Aberzombie wrote:

I enjoyed this episode, but...

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
What guy in zoom's prison? I completely missed that!
Scarab Sages

Hama wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:

I enjoyed this episode, but...

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Unless I was hallucinating....

Spoiler:
When Barry woke up in Zoom's prison menagerie, there was a brief pan over a dude in another cell with some kind of Man-in-the-Iron-Mask look going on. And he appeared to be tapping some kind of code.

Sovereign Court

I'll have to look at it when I come home from work.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Wasn't there also an image in the wormhole of some older guy with a beard (possibly holding a pistol)? I thought he looked very vaguely like Professor Jones (Indy's dad).


JoelF847 wrote:
Wasn't there also an image in the wormhole of some older guy with a beard (possibly holding a pistol)? I thought he looked very vaguely like Professor Jones (Indy's dad).

Jonah Hex


I was wondering if the man

Spoiler:
in Zoom's prison was supposed to the be the Earth-2 version of Spartan aka John Diggle. The mask looked kind of similar, but obviously not the same. Otherwise, no clue who he was supposed to be. He definitely seemed to be knocking in a specific pattern. I don't know Morse Code, so I don't know if it was that.

I was also annoyed with them with doing everything Jay told them not to do. I enjoyed the episode, though.


The man in the iron mask might be Wally, an alternate-world version who had speed until Zoom took it. Or it might be Jefferson Jackson, being kept as a spare Firestorm component should Ronnie prove unreliable (which he did.) But there's no obvious reason either of them would need to be masked with Jessie isn't.

The heavy mask didn't strike me as something anyone would choose to wear, unless it were part of a full suit of armor; seemed more like part of his punishment, whoever he is.

I went back through the knocking several times, and if there's a pattern, I'm not detecting it.


Loved this episode. Sure, Barry acted like a complete moron, and I really wonder what they did with B2, but everything else was great. Especially Reverb. I don't really like Cisco but the actor really did a great job with Reverb. A shame we won't be seeing more of him.

I'm guessing the mask on the Man in the Iron Mask is to hinder a power. Who has powers that would require sound/eye contact?

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Spoiler:
It was too old and low-tech, but it kinda reminded me of the Brainiac's head in Whatever Happened to Man of Tomorrow. It's not it, but that was the first thought.

He might be someone with voice-based powers, like Sonar but metahuman. That was the idea that came to my mind- he is someone with voice-based powers.

Good episode, very heartfelt in some scenes.


I have to say, I'm VERY curious/Confused about the whole speed stealing bit...

The whole concept was that he had stolen Jay's speed and wanted Barry's too... But now with Jays' revealation... I'm very curious where that leaves Zoom? It's like everything we had built him on was wiped away....

Except that he HAS stolen some of Barry's speed already, so we know it's in his repetoir.

Did anyone ELSE ever mention that Zoom stole Jay's speed... or was that always taken just from Jay on trust?? Makes me want to go back and rewatch all the Zoom episodes now.

I'll admit I was very frustrated the way they ended this episode... I can't wait for next week!!

Though, yeah... the highlight was definitely seeing a vision of 90's Flash as an alternate universe :D :D :D


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Since this is Zoom's dungeon, and his other 'guests' are the Flash and 'Jessie Quick', maybe the masked man is Johnny Quick, and the mask is there to prevent him from reciting the Speed Formula.


someone was suggesting it might be Ferro, which would tie into the Legion Ring


Greylurker wrote:
someone was suggesting it might be Ferro, which would tie into the Legion Ring

Hmm. Well, the tapping he was doing with his bare hand did sound kind of metallic against that transparent barrier...

But what use would Zoom have for Ferro? His superpower doesn't seem exploitable in any useful way; large chunks of iron are easier to come by. Taking a Legionnaire's ring would enable Zoom to fly (which he hasn't been seen to do) and protect him from hostile environments (potentially useful) but stealing a ring doesn't require keeping its owner prisoner.

Maybe trying to question him about 30th Century Earth-2, which would be centuries ahead of Zoom's time, in hopes of exploiting future tech?


except that we don't know what time period Zoom comes from? What if he is a 31st century criminal being pursued by the Legion. Keeping Ferro alive and imprisoned might be a measure against the Legion tracking his location and showing up with a time bubble.


I really expect the Legion Flight Ring was more easter egg than plot point.

Liberty's Edge

Or it's a sign of Booster Gold's imminent arrival to the Arrowverse.


Krensky wrote:
Or it's a sign of Booster Gold's imminent arrival to the Arrowverse.

If they can't use Ted Kord I doubt they are allowed Booster Gold - they bwa-ha-ha together.


That would frankly annoy me on two levels: (1) a Legion flight ring should tease the Legion, dammit, not some wannabe superhero who stole one; and (2) as you might have guessed from the preceding, I'm not a fan of Booster Gold.

I never got past the portrayal of him as a thief and glory hound for hire who didn't "earn" his status as a superhero, and wasn't even useful as a reliable source of information from his future perspective.

Liberty's Edge

Booster's not the thief and glory hound.

His son who stole all the credit for his father's heroics is.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You're referring to a relatively -- heh...relatively -- recent development in the comics where

Spoiler:
Booster is Rip Hunter's father?

I was all but entirely out of the DC multiverse well before that, around the time of Infinite Crisis. For me, Booster Gold will always be the clown he was in the '80s, and among the very last people I'd choose to be Obi-Wan to a Time Master.

Of course, I'm an unrepentant curmudgeon for whom Hal Jordan is the One True Green Lantern (of Earth*), Ray Palmer is the Atom, Aquaman has two good hands, Ted Kord is the Blue Beetle (though I was never much of a Beetle fan either), etc. so you can't go by me.

*no issue with John Stewart, but Gardner's an ass and Kyle Rayner is a young upstart who needs to get off my lawn!


Hook hand Aquaman is the best Aquaman, let's be clear.

I also love Stewart but he's the only Green lantern I've spent any real time with since don't read the comics.

Dark Archive

Damon Griffin wrote:
Of course, I'm an unrepentant curmudgeon for whom Hal Jordan is the One True Green Lantern (of Earth*),

Alan Scott tells Hal Jordan to get off his lawn!

:)


I stand corrected. Hal Jordan is the One True Green Lantern of Earth-1.

I do loves me some Justice Society, and their extended Earth-2 cast. I never have forgiven DC for killing Helena (Huntress) Wayne by having a wall fall on her during Crisis On Infinite Earths. Talk about a lame, pointless death...

When DC started the "second wave" of the New 52, the only titles I picked up were Earth-2 and World's Finest. I wanted to give the reimagining a fair shake, but just couldn't get into them. I think I tried the two titles for 8 issues.

Dark Archive

Damon Griffin wrote:
I do loves me some Justice Society, and their extended Earth-2 cast. I never have forgiven DC for killing Helena (Huntress) Wayne by having a wall fall on her during Crisis On Infinite Earths. Talk about a lame, pointless death...

Putting aside the damage done to the Legion of Super-Heroes franchise by Crisis, the deaths of Helena Wayne, Earth-2 Robin and Kole really annoyed me, back in the day. Helena Wayne was an amazing look at a 'grown up kid of Batman and a villainess carrying on the mission' unlike Damien Wayne, who'se just a meme-quoting punk, IMO.

And Crisis has mostly been undone anyway. 'Permanent' deaths or not, both Supergirl and Barry Allen are not only back (third time back, for Kara, although it took 25 years for Barry), but (hey, topic!), they've got their own TV shows!

Even the Crime Syndicate has come back multiple times, after being the only 'heroes' of a given universe to give their lives en masse to fight the destruction of their universe and 'go down with the ship.' (While the Freedom Fighters, Shazam family, Charlton heroes, etc. all managed to skate off to the remaining Earth while the billions on their Earths died, like, uh, heroes are supposed to do, according to DC?)


Set wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:
I do loves me some Justice Society, and their extended Earth-2 cast. I never have forgiven DC for killing Helena (Huntress) Wayne by having a wall fall on her during Crisis On Infinite Earths. Talk about a lame, pointless death...

Putting aside the damage done to the Legion of Super-Heroes franchise by Crisis, the deaths of Helena Wayne, Earth-2 Robin and Kole really annoyed me, back in the day. Helena Wayne was an amazing look at a 'grown up kid of Batman and a villainess carrying on the mission' unlike Damien Wayne, who'se just a meme-quoting punk, IMO.

And Crisis has mostly been undone anyway. 'Permanent' deaths or not, both Supergirl and Barry Allen are not only back (third time back, for Kara, although it took 25 years for Barry), but (hey, topic!), they've got their own TV shows!

Even the Crime Syndicate has come back multiple times, after being the only 'heroes' of a given universe to give their lives en masse to fight the destruction of their universe and 'go down with the ship.' (While the Freedom Fighters, Shazam family, Charlton heroes, etc. all managed to skate off to the remaining Earth while the billions on their Earths died, like, uh, heroes are supposed to do, according to DC?)

Kole was just another one of the Crisis deaths. That didn't really bother me. New character, kind of cool visual, kind of neat powers, but she hadn't got much characterization and what there was didn't impress me. Maybe she would have turned into something great. Probably not.

E2-Robin and Huntress were different. They were doomed by Crisis. There just was no way for them to fit in the new world. And honestly, that didn't bother me that much either. Mourn them and move on.
It was the ones who continued, but were gutted by the loss of their history that were the worst. The Legion never recovered. Infinity, Inc and All-Star Squadron, both really good titles before Crisis were never the same. All-Star Squadron died and Infinity limped on for a couple of years, but it had lost too much. Even the Titans struggled with the loss of Wonder Girl's origin.

And I'm the one on these boards who liked Damian. Not as a meme-quoting punk, but as a little kid who desperately wants his father's love, which of course Bruce has no idea how to show. Mind you, he died and did not return as some super-powered thing, whatever rumors you may have heard.:)

Liberty's Edge

Having watched Welcome to Earth-2 finally, maybe the man in the mask is Wally West.

Sovereign Court

[urlhttps://youtu.be/My9uSscBO8E] This trailer is promising[/url]

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Hama wrote:
This trailer is promising

Oh yeaah!

Spoiler:
My man King Shark!
Scarab Sages

Rosgakori wrote:
Hama wrote:
This trailer is promising
Oh yeaah! ** spoiler omitted **

For some reason, that made me think Zoom is one of two people:

Spoiler:
Henry Allen, because having to battle an alternate universe version of his own father would severely mess Flash up,

or....

Oliver Queen - this popped into my head because it looked like other characters from Arrow are going to show up (maybe Earth 2 versions), but no Oliver himself....

Either way, it looks like something is going to happen to Flash during his battle on Earth 2, something that will make him maybe take a bit of a turn to the "dark side".


there was a news broadcast in the background of one of the earlier scenes on earth 2 that mentioned that Oliver's father was The Hood on Earth 2, and his son died on the island

So I don't think its Oliver

Scarab Sages

Cool! I missed that part! Not surprising that the went the Owlman/Thomas Wayne route with the Earth 2 Queens.


Could the guy in the mask be Psycho Pirate? Crisis-era Flash fans might recall him having a minor relationship with Barry.

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

Kain Darkwind wrote:
Could the guy in the mask be Psycho Pirate? Crisis-era Flash fans might recall him having a minor relationship with Barry.

Ooh, that could be cool! Haven't even thought of him popping up in one of these series. That would explain the need for mask.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

CRAP!
crapcrapcrapcrapcrap

We've been conned, we've been conned from the start

Spoiler:
he's not Jay, he was never Jay. He was Hunter Zolman from the very begining. Jay is the one in the cage wearing the iron mask

Sovereign Court

WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT


Hama wrote:
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT

Spoiler:
The cell Iron mask is in. It's a glass box the same as Barry's, but Jessy was just in a cage. From that we can infer that Iron Mask is a speedster. Add to that they way he got upset when Barry said Jay Garrick was on Earth 1 with them.

More then that, why the Mask. Why put a mask on someone when you are the only one to see them alive ever again. Why keep him from talking if they were never going to leave that place. Barry and Jessy were supposed to escape, that was the plan the whole time. But it was important they they not know who Iron Mask is. Because they would recognize him.

The original Man in the Iron mask is about twins. One gets to be King and the other is locked away hidden from the world.

Comics always steal from classic literature


Greylurker wrote:
Hama wrote:
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT
** spoiler omitted **

One problem Greylurker...

Spoiler:
While I agree it is Jay Garrick in the cage, I don't think he and Zoom are the same person as the Jay Garrick NOT in the cage. They existed as two separate people. They've been in the same place at the same time, together. I think it's MORE likely given what happens with the other Jay that he is a clone of the original. Zoom probably made the clone to suck on the Speed Force but now he's got Barry in his sights. I also don't think he just "let them" get away.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Hama wrote:
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT
** spoiler omitted **

One problem Greylurker...

** spoiler omitted **

agreed Zoom is seperate but

Spoiler:
look at what Hunter (I'm calling him Hunter) has achieved. Velocity 9. He clearly had Wells working on it at some point and then he got Caitlin to perfect it. Now he takes it back to Zoom who can use it to become faster.

Scarab Sages

So, that was……weird.

Spoiler:
Mask-man is becoming an interesting part of the story. He was trying to tell them something about Jay. At first, I thought he might actually be Jay, and the writers were trying to pull a season one thing where the friend team-Flash thought they had as an Earth One visitor was actually the enemy in disguise. Then they showed both Zoom and Jay, on different Earths at what appears to be the same time. So unless there’s some time distortion when you travel through the rifts, there’s no way even Zoom could be fast enough to appear as both himself on Earth Two and Jay Garrick on Earth One.

My other thought was this – what if the man in the mask is Wally West (or some previously unmentioned character), and he was Jay’s assistant on Earth Two, helping him in his research regarding Velocity 6. And what if he knows the truth – that Jay didn’t just lose his speed from taking V-6? What if, instead, it acted as some sort of Jekyll/Hyde formula, and split him into two beings – one good (Jay), one evil (Zoom).

Either that, or my earlier speculation about Zoom being Hunter Zolomon, with temporal powers instead of actual super speed, is the correct one. Then, at some future point, Caitlin will be forced to give Velocity 9 to Hunter Zolomon in order to try and save Jay.

And who didn’t see that last bit with Jay coming? They should have just put up a big neon sign saying “Zoom’s gonna get him!”

With the breach now closed, maybe they’ll be forced to build the Cosmic Treadmill to try and reach Earth Two again. If I recall correctly, although it was mostly used for time travel, it was used at least once in the comics to try and travel between parallel earths.

Other notes….

I really liked Earth Two Barry. His speech to Earth One Barry was really cool.

I’m glad Jessie and Harry are sticking around for awhile. Maybe they can make Jessie a love interest for someone.

How the hell did Geomancer track Flash back to Star Labs? I really wish they’d explained that.

That’s all I’ve got for now.

Scarab Sages

Greylurker wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Greylurker wrote:
Hama wrote:
WHAT WHAT WHAT WHAT
** spoiler omitted **

One problem Greylurker...

** spoiler omitted **

agreed Zoom is seperate but

** spoiler omitted **

Interesting....I like this angle as well. And it's awesome that the show runners can have us speculating on so many different paths forward.....


here is what I'm thinking right now

Spoiler:
Earth 2 Jay has a twin brother Hunter, split as kids. Eventually reunited. Jay becomes the Flash, Hunter in jealousy developes the Velocity drug but can't quite get it right. Hunter encounters Zoom and Zoom wanting more speed wants the Velocity Drug perfected. They make a deal. Zoom captures Jay. Hunter goes to Wells as Jay "Zoom stole my speed, but how about you help me make this drug", He and Wells don't get along and split. So Hunter goes to Earth 1 "Hi I'm Flash from E2, but Zoom stole my speed. Let me help you". Then once Wells introduces the Drug to Caitlin he charms her into finishing it. Lastly he sets himself up to be Zoom napped as they close the portal and tadaa. Zoom now has the perfected Velocity 9, now all he needs is Wells' Speed syphon


Interesting theories.

The man in the iron mask is definitely not

Spoiler:
Wally because when we see him from within the cell, there's blond hair sticking out from under the mask.

There definitely seems to be some sort of duplicate/twin/clone Jay shenanigans going on.

Sovereign Court

Also the man in the mask is white.

Scarab Sages

Kalshane wrote:

Interesting theories.

The man in the iron mask is definitely not ** spoiler omitted **

D'oh! You are correct about the hair. As soon as I read it, I recalled the shot of the back of his head.

Scarab Sages

Hama wrote:
Also the man in the mask is white.

Was he? I was having trouble telling. Might have been the lighting + tired eyes.

Scarab Sages

Greylurker wrote:

here is what I'm thinking right now

** spoiler omitted **

I like this....

Spoiler:
It has a nice Cobalt Blue storyline, which is from the Wally West Flash comic era. The writer's have already been shown they like to pull stories from that time.

Only two problems I can see:

(a)The cellular degeneration Caitlin found in Jay(Hunter). Could be explained by his early failures to develop a speed drug.

(b) More difficult to explain away - Jay showing Caitlin the supposedly Earth One Jay/Hunter. If he didn't have speed, how do they both appear in the same scene? Could be explained away that he was already using the non-perfected formula and had speed just long enough to do the whole Reverse Flash after-image illusion.

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