As a precaution to a inevitable character death (Or if wishing to join a campaign) I have decided to start another character sheet. However, the rolls that I have done with the standard (4d6 minus lowest roll) method has been...interesting. With these rolls, what sounds like the best class to pair it up with?
Rolls:
13, 12, 12, 11, 12, 14
Anything.
Conjuration/'God-style' Wizard. For the same reason, stats not critical.
Sadly my current character is a Conjuration Wizard. Great suggestions so far though!
Sounds like every roll I've ever made for the last 10 years =/, I've had luck with rangers because of their ability to skip pre-reqs for combat style feats, and a bunch of skill points to come off useful.
summoning cleric/druid
As a precaution to a inevitable character death (Or if wishing to join a campaign) I have decided to start another character sheet. However, the rolls that I have done with the standard (4d6 minus lowest roll) method has been...interesting. With these rolls, what sounds like the best class to pair it up with?
Rolls:
13, 12, 12, 11, 12, 14
15 point buy stats there. Not great but workable. Keep racial modifiers in mind.
Who couldn't I play with those rolls? Stats, schmats.
Alchemist would be solid.
Str 14
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 12
Cha 11
Use a Longspear and enjoy life. Level ups go into Int and Racial is preferred in Con or Int.
I think every 1st level character (remember, NOT a hero - yet) should be terrified of dying on their first adventure.
I think every 1st level character (remember, NOT a hero - yet) should be terrified of dying on their first adventure.
No, you're an adventurer. You should have balls of steel and unable to comprehend failure. If it can be done then you can find a way. But the threat should be very very real and there.
Assuming those stats can be rearranged, perhaps a bard or other 6-level caster. Just make sure your race has a bonus to the casting stat and offense stat you want.
14+2 Str or Dex, and 13+2 Int, Wis, or Cha.
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Assuming those stats can be rearranged, perhaps a bard or other 6-level caster. Just make sure your race has a bonus to the casting stat and offense stat you want.
14+2 Str or Dex, and 13+2 Int, Wis, or Cha.
Yeah, it actually doesn't look bad at all.
You could raise the 2 highest stats higher with your racial bonuses or I personally would raise the 2nd highest and one of the 12s. 15,14,14,12,12,11 is nothing to sneeze at, even once you put a -2 in one of the 12s or the 11. Makes a decent ranger, rogue, cleric, or heck..go Barbarian. I could see a good shapeshifter barbarian in that...
An archer Bard/Inquisitor could work, as would a melee Cleric. Summoners too, of course.
Still, I'd probably ask the GM for a reroll.
Why not just go rogue with a 16 Dex after racial mods? Or Ranger focusing on Str? Or... any class. These aren't the worst stats in the world. A recent game I had to roll up a PC for my first set was 16 13 12, 9, 11, 11 so it could've been worse. Needless to say with a 15 pt buy stat array you're still in decent shape to survive the campaign.
Why not just go rogue with a 16 Dex after racial mods? Or Ranger focusing on Str? Or... any class. These aren't the worst stats in the world. A recent game I had to roll up a PC for my first set was 16 13 12, 9, 11, 11 so it could've been worse. Needless to say with a 15 pt buy stat array you're still in decent shape to survive the campaign.
Oddly this was actually just a 4d6 roll minus worst roll for these stats: I thought about using a point buy for it, but decided it's always more fun to roll. But if this looks good for a 15 point buy, than I guess I'm good to go!
I could easily play any of the 6th level casting classes with this (For this purpose, the alchemist counts). They get access to enough buffs that deficiencies don't really matter. God wizard or druid works, using wild shape/animal companions to make up the lower physical ability in the case of the druid, or not really needing them in the case of the wizard. can't say I'd want to make a fighter or monk out of these, though I can see a barbarian, or maybe a rogue.
*EDIT: a lot of this goes on the assumption that you can use all races from the ARG as well as the variant heritages for tieflings and aasimars. I don't think the viability will change all that much, but with those books, you'll be guaranteed to find SOMETHING that gives you a 16 in your two primary stats.
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Why not just go rogue with a 16 Dex after racial mods? Or Ranger focusing on Str? Or... any class. These aren't the worst stats in the world. A recent game I had to roll up a PC for my first set was 16 13 12, 9, 11, 11 so it could've been worse. Needless to say with a 15 pt buy stat array you're still in decent shape to survive the campaign.
While it technically adds up to a 15 point buy, it is not a very GOOD 15 point buy.
Especially not if you're suggesting he play a class like Rogue, which has a hard enough time coping WITH good stats.
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For the past couple years I've been playing a cleric of Ptah with these rolled scores: STR14 DEX12 CON12 INT10 WIS12(+2 human will go here) CHA9
Everyone else in the party has much higher ability scores. The best rolled 18 16 18 16 13 15 and chose to play a very capable Fighter.
Buffing and Summoning works just fine with a 14 Wisdom. STR 14, Power Attack, and stacked buffs can do a passable imitation of Clericzilla. This approach mitigates the effect of poor atributes.
Playing MAD characters with subpar stats is not great idea.
Playing a SAD character with nothing higher than a 14 isn't that great either.
Playing MAD characters with subpar stats is not great idea.Playing a SAD character with nothing higher than a 14 isn't that great either.
But playing a SAD character who can benefit from those other superfluous attributes and doesn't need a maxed attribute can work fairly well, hence the buffer (both Bard and Cleric) suggestions, and the Summoner ones.
While it technically adds up to a 15 point buy, it is not a very GOOD 15 point buy.
At the same time, it's not a particularly bad spread.
This sort of character won't shine, but without a dump stat he won't suck in any particular ability either like with some min/maxers.
Putting the racial +2 to get a 16 and the 4th level raise in that 13 to get a 14 will give you a pretty decent character.
As for classes, if you go with the magic wielding classes, go with a secondary tier caster (inquisitor, magus, bard, etc.) where you don't need more than 16 to get all the spells.
If you concentrate on ally buffing spells or other no-save spells, you can get away with not having very high spell save DCs.
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Shield Style Ranger 6/Brawler Fighter x Two-handing a heavy shield. Use Dual-Talented Human for a bonus to two ability scores
STR 14+2
DEX 12
CON 12+2
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 11
Feats
1 R1: Improved Shield Bash
2 R2: Shield Slam (Ranger Bonus)
3 R3: Power Attack, Endurance
4
5 R5: Weapon Focus (Heavy Shield)
6 R6: Shield Master(Ranger Bonus)
7 F1: Furious Focus, Improved Bull Rush
8 F2: Greater Bull Rush
9 F3: Shield Focus
10 F4: Weapon Specialization (Heavy Shield)
Go for a controller bard.
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As a precaution to a inevitable character death (Or if wishing to join a campaign) I have decided to start another character sheet. However, the rolls that I have done with the standard (4d6 minus lowest roll) method has been...interesting. With these rolls, what sounds like the best class to pair it up with?
Rolls:
13, 12, 12, 11, 12, 14
That would make a pretty decent cleric. Not sure what race you're going with, but Str 14, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, and Cha 12 would be pretty solid for a necromancer/summoner/buffer cleric. If your race has a floating +2 (human/half-elf/half-orc) then dropping the extra +2 into either Str or Con would be pretty good. Alternatively you could swap your Con and Wis and go dwarf to bring you to Str 14, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10 which would be quite solid too, and encourages a nice +1 bump to your Constitution at around 4th level or so for more Hp (plus your saves will be nice).
Here's why this works...
1. Your magic doesn't care about armor failure, so invest a feat into heavy armor proficiency a around 3rd level or so when you can actually afford to wear some full plate. Since your Dexterity is +1, you're already at the cap for that. Meanwhile good feats to consider for 1st level are things like Improved Initiative.
2. Cleric magic doesn't need great saving throws to be useful, so having an excessive wisdom is really optional. Instead you can focus on buffing and/or support spells like shield of faith, bless, divine favor, magic vestment, summon monster I-IX, and emergency healing or inflicting (inflict spells can't be resisted like energy attacks and always deal at least 1/2 damage even on a save since they're resisted by Will).
3. Spells like align weapon, animate dead, augury, death ward, delay poison, dispel magic, divination, divine favor, divine power, freedom of movement, giant vermin, invisibility purge, magic circle against evil, magic vestment, (greater) magic weapon, neutralize poison protection from energy, protection from evil, remove curse, remove disease, remove fear, remove paralysis, resist energy, (lesser/greater) restoration, shield of faith, spell immunity, stone shape, summon monster I-IX, wind wall, and tons and tons and tons of other great spells don't care about your Wisdom and instead care only about your caster level.
4. Animate dead is a good staple spell for a low-wisdom cleric. Animating a few Bloody Skeletons can go a long way and allows you to turn fallen monsters to your uses. For example, if you happen to encounter and defeat a Dire Bear or a Dragon, you can then turn them into a minion that can help the party (bloody skeletons make pretty good meat shields and some can be pretty dangerous in their own right). Before encountering great monsters an ox or similar herd animal (sharing statistics with an auroch) makes a fine substitute at low levels since they tend to be pretty beefy (pun intended).
5. Recommended feats include any of the following: Improved Initiative, Toughness, Great Fortitude / Lightning Reflexes / Iron Will, metamagic feats (extend and quicken are great options), item creation feats (Bre Potion, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, Forge Ring, and Craft Rod are all pretty solid). Virtually none of these feats require good ability scores and in the case of item creation feats, there's a cute benefit (see below).
6. General strategies. At low levels wear the nicest armor for the AC that you can get. At mid 1st and 2nd level this will probably be chainmail (+6 AC), but you'll want to pick up some full plate (+9 AC) sometime later. At the lowest levels, spiked gauntlets, longspears, slings, and a shield (light or heavy*) are good ideas. For offense, longspear is your best bet. For best defense, a spiked gauntlet + heavy wooden shield allows you to attack and cast spells while keeping your AC high, and a light shield + morning star provides a mixture.
You'll initially want to play fairly support heavy. Using spells like protection from evil and shield of faith, as well as a nice selection of orisons. You can fight decently, and can fill in for a martial if needed, but definitely don't forget to buff, especially at 1st-2nd level when you have no really worthwhile summoning opportunity. If you happen to spontaneously cast cure spells (a thing a neutral-aligned cleric can do while still casting spells like animate dead) then you can probably save someone in a pinch if they're about to die.
At 3rd level, I prefer spells that solve problems, like resist energy, remove paralysis, and delay poison which all have decent durations and are great at dealing with nasty things you deal with in adventures.
At 5th level, all your best things come online. Animate dead, summon monster III, and dispel magic are all excellent spells and useful in a wide variety of ways. This is also also a pretty good time to have some nice item creation feats, or when metamagics like extend spell start looking pretty nice (as extend delay poison can immunize someone from poison for 10 hours).
Item Creation Ideas
Item creation is pretty optional but it has nice rewards for those interested. It relies on Spellcraft (a class skill for you which should probably be maxed anyway for identifying spells being thrown at you and identifying magic items and stuff) and doesn't need great ability scores so much as feats.
Item creation can helpful for keeping costs down on your magic items. It can go a long way, and doesn't require a lot of downtime if you're upgrading existing items. For example, if you have Craft Wondrous Item and you make a +1 cloak of resistance for 500 gp, it takes you 1 day to craft (1,000 gp = 1 day). Now if later you want to upgrade that same cloak to a +2 cloak (4,000 gp) you only have to cover the difference, so you expend 1,500 gp (1/2 of 3,000 gp) and 3 days (instead of 4) to bring it to a +2 cloak. If upgrade items in increments like this, you will usually find that it's quite affordable and requires little downtime.
This can be especially helpful to you and your party. If you plan to be casting animate dead a lot (and you should) then it can also help to pay for the material component costs to make your minions (though it's very likely that if you use your minions intelligently, such as using them to provide flanking buddies for your martials, meat shields for your wizard friends, and pack-mules for treasures, your party may help you split the bills).
Finally, when creating a magic item you can set the caster level of that effect based on your Spellcraft result. This is pretty handy for certain functions. For example, if you have Brew Potion and a +12 Spellcraft, you can craft a CL 12th shield of faith potion that will provide the drinker with a +4 deflection bonus to AC for 12 minutes, for 300 gp. That's an expensive habit to do often, but it can be really great to keep one or two around for difficult fights, and if your party chips in a little you probably can (300 gp / 4 = 75 gp).
This can be a pretty handy technique to use with spells like dispel magic or remove disease which are based on caster level. Having a fairly high CL remove disease scroll around is a pretty good investment for a party and just might save a life!
Finally, crafting a prayer bead of karma and a caster level boosting ioun stone are two good ideas as well. The ioun stone bumps your CL by +1 and the prayer bead by +4 for a little while each day. Both of these are extremely useful when you really need a dispel magic or something to go off. Incense of meditation is pretty awesome too.
About Metamagic
Metamagic often has the downside of not actually increasing spell levels, and so the saving throw DCs don't go up and they're easily nullified with spells like globe of invulnerability. However since many of your best spells don't care about those things and/or are only reliant upon caster level, this makes certain metamagics more appealing.
For example, the Extend Metamagic feat can easily be applied to 10 min./level and 1 hr. / level spell effects to make them last through an entire dungeon, or adventure. By mid levels, this can allow you to buff your party a day in advance in some cases. For example, if you're 12th level, you can cast extended greater magic weapon on someone's weapon the day before your adventure, prepare new spells, and enjoy the benefits the next day.
Quicken Spell is another good one and is probably a no-brainer. Using it to quicken-cast spells like Divine Power without wasting time to buff can be very solid at higher levels.
Reach Spell can be surprisingly useful too. Good choices for reach spell include most healing spells, and amusingly animate dead, as it can allow you to raise downed enemies during combat. Reach death knell is pretty solid too as you can often snag a nice caster level boost by surprise and if the downed foe had a decent amount of hit dice the effect is going to last for quite a while.
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I think I would play a Halfling Cleric of Desna.
Str 10
Dex 13
Con 13
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 14
Fleet of Foot alternate racial trait
Traits: Deft Dodger, Indomitable Faith
Feat: Selective Channeling (Heavy Armor Proficiency and Tower Shield Proficiency next)
Domains: Luck and Travel
Not a big damage dealer, but solid buffing and utility casting.
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Bard, support cleric, summoner, summoning wizard, support druid.
Those stats make targeting opponents with DCs difficult and frontlining difficult, so doing something support-based is always recommended for low-stat rolls. You can try to do something front-line, but you'll always be second wing to the character who rolled better and goes to attack.
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any pet based class relies very little on its stats...
Summoners- you're basically a pet for the eidolon; optimize it and plan on the PC mostly being a buffer (with decent summons if you need some meat shields); you can build similarly to a reach cleric if you want to add a little something more from the PC.
Hunter- from Advanced Class Guide (playtest)... another 6:9 casting pet class; i haven't actually played it, but it looks like it should work a lot like the summoner for this.
Druid- a little bit more limiting because you need to make sure you can get/keep your casting stat high enough for 9:9 casting, but your animal companion can do a lot of the heavy lifting while you buff, and thanks to wildshape you can actually become a passable melee character eventually.
Oracle- this is actually a fairly sick option... if you make an aasimar (which lets you get +2 to Cha and any one other stat, with no penalty) with the lunar (or nature) mystery you can take the racial favored class bonus to make your animal companion based off your level x1.5 (plus you can take the Celestial Servant feat)!
Summoner Cleric- ok, this one isn't really a pet class, but it is sort of an army class... make a base/vanilla aasimar with your best stats in Wis and Cha and take the evangelist archetype; take summoning feats- augment summoning, superior summoning, sacred summons; summon groups of celestial creatures to fight for you, buff them all (and your teammates) with your performance, and heal them all (and your teammates) with channel (or take a channel variant to further buff them with it). fringe benefit- you can also be the party face so you have stuff to do outside of combat. oh, also you 9:9 casting you can do something with if you want ;)
edit: Warpriest (also from Advanced Class Guide) doesn't get a pet or crazy summons, so it has to stand on its own, but it is a pretty solid class that's somewhat less stat dependent (thanks to its ability to buff with swift actions); and, it combos really well with the Evangelist PrC.
Human, dual talent, and play almost anything you like. 16 Str 15 Wis would make a very nice Inquisitor, imho.