Butthurt Wizard dies in final fight? Did I do bad?


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Okay, so, here's a recap. I had 4 players, each of which picked normal things. We had a Fighter (Archer), Ranger (Two Handed), Cleric (Iomedae Up and Close), and a Wizard (Conjurer).

Everyone in the group was of 18th level, with the final combat being against a Fighter 1 Necromancer 9 Eldritch Knight 10

In concert with the Necromancer were 2 Ghast Clerics. Both were 11th cleric level.

The thing that happened is this. The BBEG, the EK, had a Scythe. An Adamantine +4 Spellstoring Keen Scythe.

With a Wished up Strength of 24, Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Heroism, Bull's Strength, and Rage all cast on himself, he was a sight to behold.

2d4+7
-5, +15
2d4+23
+5 Arcane Strike
2d4+28
+2 Bull's Strength
2d4+30
Heroism
2d4+32
Rage
2d4+34

That's a lot of buffs. That's a very prepared wizard who's been watching everyone's strengths, and has come to respect, as well as understand the fact that the wizard in the party is the most dangerous.

First round, Initiative Victory, Quickened Dimension Door, Critical, Critical Confirm. Pain

8d4+136 damage. That's survivable for a tanky character at this level, and even the wizard would have been okay with it, but that's when matters get complicated. The Spell stored in the Scythe was Vampiric Touch, which did 10d6 damage.

8d4+136+10d6 damage.

8d4 + 136 ⇒ (2, 3, 4, 1, 1, 3, 2, 4) + 136 = 156
10d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 1, 1, 1, 5, 4, 4, 1, 1) = 22

188 damage, 20 above the wizard's, and he gained the bonus health to boot, made only worse by the necromancer's Maximized Greater False Life...

To make matters worse? Cleave. He did more than 3/5ths the fighter's health as well.

He dies in the first round, and the wizard casts yet another quickened Dimensional door at the start of the next round after the clerics cast sanctuary on him. (He prepared 3, and his 2 cleric minions made sure to both prepare heal.)

Was it a dickish move, or was he just unlucky?


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"After using this spell, you can't take any other actions until your next turn" Quote is from the spell entry from dimension door.

You literally couldn't attack the wizard without cheating. So I'm voting dickish move.

Edit: Unless you took the dimensional agility feat. But you didn't say that unless I missed it.


Getting critcally hit with a scythe is always unlucky. If you are able to get in close and get lucky enough to roll a 19 or 20 that's fair game in my book. BBEG is supposed to be dangerous. unless you rolled really well I don't see how you did 3/5 of the fighters hit points as well since I'm pretty sure that involves a second roll to hit. (no one in my group ever takes cleave).

Edit: good catch on DDoor. Forgot about that.


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He also can't cast spells while under the effects of rage.


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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this reads as if you are proud that you were able to kill him and decimate the fighter in 1 round. If so:

*slow clap

Congratulations
You as the DM, who is essentially the god over the game, who can make/remake the world at will were able to kill a character in it.
The first rule of DMing is you don't talk... I mean is to make sure that the characters are challenged but having fun.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Heroism doesn't add to damage.

Bulls Strength won't stack with a belt if he had one.

Arcane strike is a swift action, as is casting a quickened spell, so one or the other.

The previously mentioned DDoor ends your turn.

Not necessarily dickish, as getting a jump on the most dangerous party member you have been observing is a perfectly viable tactic. The issue is you had too many actions you can't combine and the DDoor requires a feat chain in order to make this viable.


Lots of stacking errors/possibilities in here too.

Bull's Strength wouldn't stack with any other enhancement bonuses he might have had like a belt of strength.

Arcane Strike is a swift action and can't be used with Quickened spells at all.

Cleave doesn't resolve simultaneously it's a separate roll so you shouldn't have taken 3/5ths of the fighters health.


Yup. No attack after DD without a feat. And no casting while under the rage spell.

So even with the feat, not a righteous kill at all.

The Exchange

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Purely as an aesthetic consideration, it might be better not to refer to a player who is sad that you killed his 18th-level character in seconds as "butt-hurt." Trivializing his dissatisfaction kinda prejudices your case.


I'm also wondering if (if not, why not) the wizard had NO defensive spells up. No mirror image/displacement when going to fight the BBEG is odd


Stacking issues combined with a poorly prepared wizard.


Good god I need to apologize to him D: He did have Displacement, as well as a plethora of buffs, but the roll didn't go his way. I did give him the DD feat, however, though I didn't realize rage made him incapable of classing.

This is why I ask.

I resolved the cleave against the fighter as well and it landed, however.

Regardless of the lack of Arcane strike, however, the damage still would have ultimately been enough as a result of Vampiric touch to kill the wizard so that's good at least. The wizard's player wasn't so much upset about dieing first round, rather, he didn't understand why a completely intelligent wizard of the BBEG's caliber would place himself in such an area, and my answer was that he had 2 clerics waiting to fully heal him upon going back.

He also didn't comprehend how the EK had so much health.

The EK also didn't have a belt of strength, and made it a point to cast Bull's strength just before the fight began.

I also only use the term "Butthurt" because he threw quite a hissy fit as soon as he got 1 shot. He only had displacement as a result of a scroll, as Illusion "Is a useless school of magic"


Well, if you had the feat already factored in. Then there's just the no casting part.

You would have to drop the effects of rage, and the bonus damage from Arcane strike from your calculations to see if it was still legit.

So... does 36hp the other way mean he shouldn't have died? (assuming the +2 from rage, +2 from Heroism, and +5 from arcane strike were multiplied in that 136)


If he's been a repeat bad guy and has had time to learn the party's strengths and faults (mostly who the mage is) its an acceptable move more so at that high a level its time the kid gloves come off so to speak. Geek the mage first has been a long standing player tactic and anything they can do can be used against them. If this was the first time they really have ran up against him and had no idea what he was capable of (able to d door etc) it is kind of a dick move. No matter what no one likes having a character die in the first round before they really get to do anything so some feelings may be hurt either way.


Duboris wrote:

Good god I need to apologize to him D: He did have Displacement, as well as a plethora of buffs, but the roll didn't go his way. I did give him the DD feat, however, though I didn't realize rage made him incapable of classing.

This is why I ask.

I resolved the cleave against the fighter as well and it landed, however.

Regardless of the lack of Arcane strike, however, the damage still would have ultimately been enough as a result of Vampiric touch to kill the wizard so that's good at least. The wizard's player wasn't so much upset about dieing first round, rather, he didn't understand why a completely intelligent wizard of the BBEG's caliber would place himself in such an area, and my answer was that he had 2 clerics waiting to fully heal him upon going back.

He also didn't comprehend how the EK had so much health.

The EK also didn't have a belt of strength, and made it a point to cast Bull's strength just before the fight began.

I also only use the term "Butthurt" because he threw quite a hissy fit as soon as he got 1 shot. He only had displacement as a result of a scroll, as Illusion "Is a useless school of magic"

It's not that you resolve the attack against the fighter it is completely independent you don't land a free crit based on your first attack just because the hit on the wizard crit.

Additionally since you couldn't have rage or heroism on your damage nor arcane strike you would subtract (5+2+2)x4 or 36 hit points worth of damage from your attack reducing it well below your previously claimed 20 hitpoints worth of overkill.

Edit: Also temp hit points do not stack.


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Just gotta say, I find the idea that a high level character can't die in the final fight in a campaign to be somewhat ... odd. You know what, sometimes them's the breaks. Math inconsistencies aside, you did nothing wrong. Epic battles have epic consequences sometimes, and how hard is it to bring a character back to life at level 18?


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The only defensive measure an 18th level Conjurer had was flippin' Displacement...and that happened to come from a scroll!? W...T...F?

No Greater Planar Ally to stand in the BBEG's way?

No Invisibility/Etherealness?

No Mirror Image? (oh yeah, Illusion is useless...:/)

No Emergency Force Sphere?

No god-damned Contingency!?

Forgive me, but I am just blown away by the lack of preparation for this BBEG fight. I'm not sure how s/he made it to 18th level.


Death is one thing, death by bad rules is another.

There were 25-35 points of damage that shouldn't have happened, not to mention a quickened spell while raging.

And, in order to DD and cleave to the fighter, he opened himself up to a full attack from an 18th level fighter, ranger, and cleric. (no reach listed, so at the least a full barrage from a fighter archer (should have been 80pts or so minimum, and possibly a 5ft step and full attack from the 2H ranger and cleric).

Then he DD's away again, (still not able to do this legally while raging) to full heal from cohorts. (other than the rage-cast, for a prepared and familiar BBEG, this part is just plain smart tactics, can't complain there)

BTW: Sanctuary is a touch spell, so did the clerics DD with him? even so, it should have been about a 14-16 will save to ignore it. If it was up before he DD'd the first time it was broken by his attack.


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As poorly as ese characters were apparently played, and with all the incorrect rules interpretations, I can only assume that these characters weren't played from level one to 18, and were just created at a high level.

The lack of wizard defensive buffs is mind boggling. The tactics of the BBEG to move in and eat all those full attacks is strange. And the rules were just applied wrongly. Just a mess all the way around, based on what I've read here.


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Duboris wrote:

Okay, so, here's a recap.

An Adamantine +4 Spellstoring Keen Scythe.

With a Wished up Strength of 24, Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Heroism, Bull's Strength, and Rage all cast on himself, he was a sight to behold.

2d4+7
-5, +15
2d4+23
+5 Arcane Strike
2d4+28
+2 Bull's Strength
2d4+30
Heroism
2d4+32
Rage
2d4+34

8d4+136 damage. . The Spell stored in the Scythe was Vampiric Touch, which did 10d6 damage.

8d4+136+10d6 damage.

8d4+136
10d6

188 damage, 20 above the wizard's, and he gained the bonus health to boot, made only worse by the necromancer's Maximized Greater False Life...

Let's fix the math.

Heroism = a +2 morale bonus to attack, but not damage.
Bull's Strength = a +4 enhancement bonus to strength
Rage = A +2 morale bonus to Strength
Arcane Strike = +1 per 4 caster levels to a maximum of +5 at 20th. That 1 level of fighter means he's at +4, not +5
*HOWEVER* a scythe is a 2-handed weapon so your original damage should be 2d4+14. (+10 for STR and +4 for the weapon itself)

Finally, a Power Attack of -5/+15 doesn't come along until you have a +16 BAB. Those 9 levels of necromancer break that, so it should only be -4/+12.

Fixing:
2d4+14
-4, +12 Power Attack
2d4+26
+4 from a very VERY questionable Arcane Strike.
2d4+30
+2 from Bull's Strength
2d4+32
+1 from Rage (It's +2 to STR, so only +1 damage)
2d4+33

That's only 1 point lower than your total, so the wizard took 4 points less damage, and the wizard might have lived.

But there are enough mathematical mishaps and double-swift actions that I'd be more careful next time you build such a BBEG.

Shadow Lodge

Simon Legrande wrote:
Just gotta say, I find the idea that a high level character can't die in the final fight in a campaign to be somewhat ... odd. You know what, sometimes them's the breaks. Math inconsistencies aside, you did nothing wrong. Epic battles have epic consequences sometimes, and how hard is it to bring a character back to life at level 18?

Agreed. If you play rocket tag, you eventually catch a rocket in the face. 'Dem's da breaks.


Right, 2 important things to cover, but its disrespectful to call people butthurt, and be careful with high critical multiplier weapons. Using a scythe is cool and thematic, but killing someone before they had a chance to move is anti-climactic and anti-fun.


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You certainly did bad. You put a scythe on a hostile NPC.

Large crit multipliers create a large luck factor. When creating appropriate challenges for the players luck is the enemy. You should either be using the biggest die weapons (with a preference for 19-20 over X3, though when building something like a cleric that may not be an option) or the most frequently critting weapons.

If the BBEG hadn't crit he would have been wasting his actions. What he did with the assistance of an 8th level slot, a 4th level slot, and a 3rd level spell the Cleric would have made irrelevant with a 6th.

That leads to mistake number two: using spell storing for a damage spell. If you hadn't scored a kill you'd have been trading an 8th level and 4th level slot to deliver something the cleric could negate with a 6th level slot that itself cost a slot. You should have used a non-damaging touch spell. Possibly Touch of Idiocy if you were planning on going after the wizard. That would have certainly hurt him (unless he has spell resistance) and in a way I don't think the cleric could fix without an opposed caster level check.

Silver Crusade

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Had this been an organic party played up from level 1 it's nearly certain there would have been something in place to block that first critical hit. That's a lesson everyone learns going from level 1 to 18. E.g. one level of Dual Cursed Oracle (by anyone in party), the cleric feat Divine Intervention, or even a Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier would protect against such strokes of critical hit bad luck.

As a GM one gets used to:

GM: "Aha! The BBEG rolls a natural 20! Rolling to confirm ... "
Player: "Don't bother. Misfortune strikes! Re-roll that d20!"
GM: "Right. A 12. Hmph!"

An 18th level wizard who dies to such mis-chance was weak in the first place, and no great loss.


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Magda Luckbender wrote:

Had this been an organic party played up from level 1 it's nearly certain there would have been something in place to block that first critical hit. That's a lesson everyone learns going from level 1 to 18. E.g. one level of Dual Cursed Oracle (by anyone in party), the cleric feat Divine Intervention, or even a Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier would protect against such strokes of critical hit bad luck.

As a GM one gets used to:

GM: "Aha! The BBEG rolls a natural 20! Rolling to confirm ... "
Player: "Don't bother. Misfortune strikes! Re-roll that d20!"
GM: "Right. A 12. Hmph!"

An 18th level wizard who dies to such mis-chance was weak in the first place, and no great loss.

To be fair, not everyone plays using every single item from every single rule book that exists. In fact, everything mentioned in the OP exists in the CRB (assuming the parenthetical parts of the classes are roles and not archetypes).


Simon Legrande wrote:
Magda Luckbender wrote:

Had this been an organic party played up from level 1 it's nearly certain there would have been something in place to block that first critical hit. That's a lesson everyone learns going from level 1 to 18. E.g. one level of Dual Cursed Oracle (by anyone in party), the cleric feat Divine Intervention, or even a Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier would protect against such strokes of critical hit bad luck.

As a GM one gets used to:

GM: "Aha! The BBEG rolls a natural 20! Rolling to confirm ... "
Player: "Don't bother. Misfortune strikes! Re-roll that d20!"
GM: "Right. A 12. Hmph!"

An 18th level wizard who dies to such mis-chance was weak in the first place, and no great loss.

To be fair, not everyone plays using every single item from every single rule book that exists. In fact, everything mentioned in the OP exists in the CRB (assuming the parenthetical parts of the classes are roles and not archetypes).

He would need Dimensional Dervish in order to attack in the first place.


So it sounds like the proper way to do this then would be to have the support ghouls be a wizard and a cleric. Leaving out Rage and Arcane strike, the opening could have gone

Wizard ghoul casts Dimension Door to get evil group next to wizard
BBEG makes full attack against wizard, most likely doing much more damage than the single crit he got. This spares the fighter from any damage as cleave could not be used. Though if the wizard is dropped before the full attack is finished then remaining attacks could be directed at the fighter.
BBEG casts quickened Dimension Door to withdraw
Cleric ghoul casts Sanctuary, maybe not even necessary if they teleport out of LoS of the party

This would be repeatable as many times as the wizard ghoul can prepare Dimension Door.


I agree with the others, when you plan and prepare an encounter I would suggest you handle big crit multiplier weapons very carefully, with a high damage opponent they can result in a quick character fatality and this takes the chance to respond to the challenge away from the character.

That said your pcs were high level, can he not be raised/resurrected?
A character death, if not permanent, can be a good motive for revenge.


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You really shouldn't use Butthurt Wizard in Final Fight. I tend to stick to Haggar or sometimes Cody, because the latter doesn't throw knives when he punches...


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strayshift wrote:

I agree with the others, when you plan and prepare an encounter I would suggest you handle big crit multiplier weapons very carefully, with a high damage opponent they can result in a quick character fatality and this takes the chance to respond to the challenge away from the character.

That said your pcs were high level, can he not be raised/resurrected?
A character death, if not permanent, can be a good motive for revenge.

It doesn't matter if a player who dies on round one of the final fight can be resurrected. The game is over. Your team was in the world series but you snapped your ankle in the first inning of the first game.

Even if death is a revolving door spending your gaming night stuck in a revolving door sucks, especially if it's the climax.


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I read this subject too fast and just saw "Butthurt Wizard Dies in Final Fart"


Duboris wrote:

Okay, so, here's a recap. I had 4 players, each of which picked normal things. We had a Fighter (Archer), Ranger (Two Handed), Cleric (Iomedae Up and Close), and a Wizard (Conjurer).

Everyone in the group was of 18th level, with the final combat being against a Fighter 1 Necromancer 9 Eldritch Knight 10

In concert with the Necromancer were 2 Ghast Clerics. Both were 11th cleric level.

The thing that happened is this. The BBEG, the EK, had a Scythe. An Adamantine +4 Spellstoring Keen Scythe.

With a Wished up Strength of 24, Power Attack, Arcane Strike, Heroism, Bull's Strength, and Rage all cast on himself, he was a sight to behold.

...

Recap: Quicken Spell, Attack, Cleave, Quicken Spell

... in 1 round. Quicken spell is a swift action and you only get 1 swift or immediate action per round.

(assuming you have the dimensional agility feat)
You are allowed to Quicken, Attack, Cleave; but you don't have enough actions to Quicken again on the same turn.

*You cannot Quicken Spell and Arcane Strike in the same turn.

The Exchange

Peachbottom wrote:
I read this subject too fast and just saw "Butthurt Wizard Dies in Final Fart"

Somebody call the National Enquirer!

Grand Lodge

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I thought this was about an Ogre "attacking" a Wizard.

The Exchange

Henry Kissinger's Head: "This isn't a productive area of discussion."

Let's see, the topic was, uh, x4 crits? Spellcasting while enraged? Low hp for wizards? Or something?


I don't see anything wrong with what you were trying to do. It makes perfect sense for the BBEG to try and take out the mage first. If it didn't make sense why do so many PC groups use the exact same priority.

Other have pointed out the rules errors. I won't dwell on them. Everyone makes mistakes and it doesn't sound like they were intentional.

However, I think super intelligent necromantic eldritch knight would be unlikely to try to engage by himself and take out the mage from close range just with raw damage while eating attacks from all the others.

Why would he not have hordes of fast zombies disguised as himself attacking first to drain resources and divide attention.

Touch of idiocy, black tentacles, summoned ghosts, greater curse, orb of the void, plague storm, wail of the banshee, and horrid wilting are all the kinds of things I would expect a necromancer to use.

If he is just going for raw damage, he could do more as a barbarian (even without the buffs) and still be more survivable. The thing that necromancers and eldritch knights do is use magic against people.

Also, as a personal preference, I don't often actually use high crit multiplier weapons against the PC's. I would say he has a scythe. But then I would play it as if it was a x2/17-20 weapon. Oh he got a crit on you. Damn you are lucky it was only 76 damage. A x4 could have been as much as 136 damage. The still get the chilling effect of telling them he got a crit, but I am unlikely to accidentally kill a PC.


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Three things are no fun: a fight that ends before it's started (which is what this is for the wizard's player), damage that doesn't accomplish anything, and death spirals.

It looks like a full round action Dimensional Assault charge and a swift option DD to escape is legal action economy. The arcane strike is not, but those are. Spell storing triggers as a free action so that's okay as well.

Vampiric Touch, was a bad choice for spell storing, though. It grabs him a bunch of temporary HP, but he should have already had false life or greater false life running if he had any prep time.

The real goal is to give the party in general and the wizard in particular a long (but not too long), hard fight. Not necessarily a victory. A close fought defeat could also be fun, but a quick victory or defeat is probably not.

Touch of Idiocy is a really good choice for spell storing in this situation because there's no save and it may knock out the wizard's highest spell levels and will at least reduce his save DCs. Note that while spell storing is limited to 3rd level spells it says nothing about slots nor about not supporting metamagic. That means your BBEG could keep a maximized or even maximized and empowered ToI in it. Taking 6-9 off a wizard's int is likely to deprive him of his top level spells unless he's heavily minmaxed, throwing off his battle plan but he'll still have his second or third tier and any of his higher slots that had metamagiced spells of levels he can still cast so he's not out of the fight. That's fun.


I tossed this into hero lab to check the math - without rage (as noted in other posts) the damage is a bit lower...

Spoiler:

Unnamed Hero CR 19
XP 204,800
No Race Eldritch Knight 10/Fighter 1/Wizard 9
Medium
Init +3; Senses Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 13, touch 13, flat-footed 10 (+3 Dex)
hp 136 (11d10+9d6+40)
Fort +14, Ref +11, Will +11
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee +4 keen spell storing adamantine scythe +26/+21/+16 (2d4+29/19-20/×4)
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 18th; concentration +24):
9th—[/i]
8th—[i]

7th—[/i]
6th—[i]

5th—[/i]
4th—[i]

3rd—[/i]
2nd—[i]

1st—[/i]
0 (at will)—[i]

--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 28, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 22, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +15; CMB +22; CMD 37
Feats Dimensional Agility, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll
Skills Acrobatics +5, Appraise +8, Bluff +2, Climb +11, Diplomacy +2, Disguise +2, Escape Artist +5, Fly +5, Heal +2, Intimidate +2, Perception +2, Ride +5, Sense Motive +2, Stealth +5, Survival +2, Swim +11
Languages Common
SQ hero points, spell critical
Other Gear +4 keen spell storing adamantine scythe
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Dimensional Agility May take any additional actions remaining after using dimension door or abundant step
Power Attack -4/+8 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Spell Critical (Su) Cast a spell as a swift action when you confirm a critical hit.

Hero Lab and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.

So 30 points of damage less (using your rolls for the dmg and spell) - is the wizard still standing? Or at least not 'dead'?

*edit* - considering with the feat he can still take a full round action... why didn't he full attack?


He Cleaved. That's a standard and a quickened.


In a module/campaign I played, when the final boss was defeated a vortex opened and all creatures within x feet are sucked in with him, dead. I rolled high and was spared. My party cleric who had survived the entire campaign rolled low and was sucked in. Bad luck for him, and bad luck for your wizard pal. Still, you do have an obligation to follow the same rules as the players. Sound like you skipped a part of the spell.


To be correct:

2d4+4 - Scythe
+12 Damage Power Attack
+13 Damage from Strength on a two handed weapon(including Bull's Strength)
No damage from Arcane Strike since you do not have an action for it.
No damage bonus from Heroism.
No damage from Rage since you cannot cast the needed Dimension Door while under it's effect.

So your base damage is actually 2d4+29. Crit is 8d4+116. Then the 10D6 from Vampiric Touch which averages about 35 more.

Assuming pure averages the mage took 171 damage in one hit.

To do that the BBEG uses up his full round action and his swift action and a free action (for the Spell Storing weapon). If that first swing on the mage critted he still had his full attack action left to use Dimensional Dervish to port next to the fighter and take his second iterative attack without using cleave at all.

BBEG MUST have Dimensional Dervish to even do this. Note that if the BBEG also had the feat Cleaving Finish he could cleave the fighter (assuming the fighter was in legal position) after downing the mage without having to use his next iterative as above.


Gilfalas wrote:
BBEG MUST have Dimensional Dervish to even do this. Note that if the BBEG also had the feat Cleaving Finish he could cleave the fighter (assuming the fighter was in legal position) after downing the mage without having to use his next iterative as above.

Not true. Dimensional Assault allows Dimension Door to be cast as part of a charge as a full round action. That gives one attack (no cleave, but it didn't really matter and if the GM knew how the feat worked he probably wouldn't have taken it) and leaves a swift action to use a quickened dimension door to escape. The quickened DD isn't limited to his movement rage like Dimensional Assault so he can deliver his spell storing weapon's charge (or a held charge touch spell) and get out of danger.


Atarlost wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
BBEG MUST have Dimensional Dervish to even do this. Note that if the BBEG also had the feat Cleaving Finish he could cleave the fighter (assuming the fighter was in legal position) after downing the mage without having to use his next iterative as above.
Not true. Dimensional Assault allows Dimension Door to be cast as part of a charge as a full round action. That gives one attack (no cleave, but it didn't really matter and if the GM knew how the feat worked he probably wouldn't have taken it) and leaves a swift action to use a quickened dimension door to escape. The quickened DD isn't limited to his movement rage like Dimensional Assault so he can deliver his spell storing weapon's charge (or a held charge touch spell) and get out of danger.

Your correct. With Dimensional Assault he could do what he listed as long as he also had Cleaving Finish (to do what he said in his original post).

Casting a Quickened Dimension Door to return to start in the same round OR using his Swift for Arcane Strike for more damage.

Assuming he used it for AS then he would have done 16 more damage on the crit for an average total of 186.

So what the OP did was definately possible. Just not the way he did it.


Peachbottom wrote:
I read this subject too fast and just saw "Butthurt Wizard Dies in Final Fart"

thats not a peachy bottom.


Atarlost wrote:
Gilfalas wrote:
BBEG MUST have Dimensional Dervish to even do this. Note that if the BBEG also had the feat Cleaving Finish he could cleave the fighter (assuming the fighter was in legal position) after downing the mage without having to use his next iterative as above.
Not true. Dimensional Assault allows Dimension Door to be cast as part of a charge as a full round action. That gives one attack (no cleave, but it didn't really matter and if the GM knew how the feat worked he probably wouldn't have taken it) and leaves a swift action to use a quickened dimension door to escape. The quickened DD isn't limited to his movement rage like Dimensional Assault so he can deliver his spell storing weapon's charge (or a held charge touch spell) and get out of danger.

Yeah but Dimensional Agility lets you use any remaining actions after the DDoor - those other feats are great for characters that can't get a quickened DDoor (like a monk) - but DDoor doesn't actually use a move action - you cast it and you pop from spot to spot - no move - no five foot step - so someone with a quickened DDoor can use it - and still get the full attack action - in this case he could have also taken a five foot and still had his full attack action. Using the quickened spell however made his crit unable to cast a spell (in addition) as part of his EK abilities - due to the swift action already being used.

A level 20 EK is one really mean NPC.

Sovereign Court

I can do you one better, OP.

Store a dissintegrate or teleport object. Do a sundering strike on his *spellbook*. Watch wizard's PC rage quit as he now plays a level 18 commoner.


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taldanrebel2187 wrote:

I can do you one better, OP.

Store a dissintegrate or teleport object. Do a sundering strike on his *spellbook*. Watch wizard's PC rage quit as he now plays a level 18 commoner.

Because all Wizards wear their spellbooks out in the open or require them to cast spells they've already prepared.

Hint: They don't. And if this is the BBEG, it's the last fight and the Wizard won't need to reprepare since the game will be over.


taldanrebel2187 wrote:

I can do you one better, OP.

Store a dissintegrate or teleport object. Do a sundering strike on his *spellbook*. Watch wizard's PC rage quit as he now plays a level 18 commoner.

And on the big list of things not to do...

Sovereign Court

Upon re-reading magic rules:

-Dimensional assault. Disintegrate strike on bonded object or familiar. Kill it first. CC the Wizard. Silence him. Then go for status effects like nauseated, pinned, exhausted etc.

On a spell critical, add another disintegrate. Or better, a mage's disjunction. Or a timestop with some black tentacles. Or an energy drain. Or a plane shift. Or waves of exhaustion / sirocco. Personally I'd go for a persistent disintegration.

More properly, just disable or permanency a silent on the Wizard. Why kill him when you can mock the Wizard by making him utterly useless by destroying his spellbook, killing his familiar, sundering his broken object and then annoying him with silence?

Very few cheesers add Silent Spell to their metamagics these days.

Or just Magic Jar or heightened FeebleMind on him -- thx for playing :p

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